(A) <Pantheon> Farewell!

85 Night Elf Druid
13380
The Pantheon Problem
I just can't let them get away with a teary good-bye post without digging up the problems I had with Osirax for the benefit of all to know. My problems with Osirax stem from only one issue-- recruitment. Pantheon members trolled our recruitment threads, despite Osirax saying it was a policy and gkickable offense, it wasn't enforced. Further, Pantheon actively recruited people who were courting my guild. Pantheon recruited on-server for their bench, not to actually raid. Natural Order maintained a roster of 28-32 people throughout Burning Crusade and Early WotLK, whereas Pantheon would fluctuate from 34-50 raiders and had the "giant amoeba" approach to recruitment. Osirax did not care that he was stifling other guilds from progressing and leaving the scraps to us. This was the accelerant that created my response, which was to absorb every last bit of talent I could find.

So, due to Osirax's policy and approach to recruitment, I was left to fight for the rest of SwC and try to build up Natural Order to survive as best I could. One by one, guilds fell apart and Pantheon was untouchable. Very good for Pantheon, but not Swc. Osirax even admitted to this going on, and I (hilariously) convinced him that I hacked his forums when all I had was someone's log-in. I engaged in psychological warfare with Andomin and Osirax for some time, and it was definitely the dirtiest I ever played and the lowest I ever stooped, but my goal was to get the realm to finally realize that I wasn't the enemy, it was Pantheon leeching every last bit of raider interest off Steamwheedle.

I knew that no matter what I did, this realm's culture would die off. There was nothing I could do about it, nothing I could do to salvage it, so it was time for me to take Natural Order to a new server. And then I learned...

Grass isn't greener, the field is just bigger
I'm a good conceptual thinker, big on strategy and planning things out extremely far in advance. Ysera was better overall, but it faces the same problems. Natural Order is, oddly enough, in Pantheon's position right now on Ysera. Midwinter is leaving to go to a new server but I am staying behind because we have unfortunately become the amoeba by default. This is a different dynamic than in Burning Crusade though, because it's 10 man guilds that are causing the problem.

10-man guilds are the ultimate sign of giving up because they allow a guild master to enjoy the benefits of being the guy in power without the troubles and leadership demands of a 25-man roster. Not that it's entirely a walk in the park, but it's unquestionably easier to manage a roster of 14-16 than 30+. But that's not even the half of it, everyone who thinks he can lead forms the 10-man, which makes recruiting talent infinitely harder for the 25-man guilds. Which means if you don't already have the resume or charisma to sell new recruits on your potential, you will end up rotting. If you're not cutting edge, and your server is backwater badness like SwC, then you are just done.

So what you have here is a situation where guilds like Lucid Dream tax the guilds like Pantheon. Then much like how the universe will decay eons from now, the final shining stars far so far apart, scattered in tiny guilds they'll never leave, there is no hope. Only darkness. Guilds can't succeed, and raiding as we knew it in the past is over.

And, the final, important point is. I called it. I so called it. I've been right about everything I've said on these forums and none of you acknowledge it, ever have, or ever will. This game is easy, and leadership is easy to me. Yet you people will never learn. And that's hilarious, because you'll keep on making the same mistakes.
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85 Gnome Priest
12230
Just for you, Zamzoowibblewabble,

-snip snip snip snap snap snip-

This is where realm forums come in. I got my very own thread all about me on the realm forums, not sure why! Apparently Colere had decided I was some sort of pervert, despite all the things he posted. In an excellent bout of forum trolling...

<More walls of text>


And yes I actually read it all. Wooo.

Don't know, don't care, the fact that you left this server and STILL come back to stomp and piss on everyone, already says something. I do not know you personally, I never knew you personally, and I'm damn as hell sure I won't be knowing you personally. But the fact that even I, one that was on the other side of the fence until mid this expack, has a sour opinion of you, is probably a good indicator of you doing something wrong.

Like coming back just to piss on what was meant to be a nice farewell thread instead of having some class and offering a few good words...or how about just not posting at all?

Oh well! Let the drama begin. I can use some mid afternoon entertainment. /popcorn
Edited by Zamzooble on 5/1/2012 10:19 AM PDT
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100 Night Elf Rogue
14960
Oh boy, Akraen posted in the thread. Now all we need is Riz's blessing and the mods can officially shut down these boards for a week.
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90 Orc Death Knight
14150
ZAM AND AKRAEN JUST KISS AND MAKE UP I DONT LIKE IT WHEN MAMA AND PAPA ARE FIGHTING. Also I dont feel like reading walls of text about pointless stuff and rath get on vent.
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85 Gnome Priest
12230
Hey let me enjoy my one day of forum freedom :<
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85 Dwarf Death Knight
13230
Lucid Dream never recruited tho.

Actually we did once and the guy left for Pantheon.

It's actually funny you should mention guilds like LD taxing Pantheon - We were pretty adamant in trying to get them and maybe Coalition to attempt to merge into a 25m that wouldn't be what Pantheon was, but Pantheon was pretty adamant on retaining leadership.

Well, we know how that worked out.
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90 Night Elf Mage
5925
Pantheon leadership failed. They were pretty set in their ways and glued to their old ideology. With cataclysm, you have to fight tooth and nail and be willing to go the extra mile to make a guild succeed. Especially on Steamwheedle Cartel.
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100 Draenei Priest
13900

...
With cataclysm, you have to fight tooth and nail and be willing to go the extra mile to make a guild succeed. Especially on Steamwheedle Cartel.


Don't make me post another thread... which of course will be turned into tales of pizza.
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85 Dwarf Death Knight
13230
For the record, I'm sorry I made as serious of a post as I did above. As much as I dislike Pantheon and its leadership it doesn't deserve an Akraen Post for its going-out party.
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90 Orc Death Knight
14150
I LIKE HOW I'VE POSTED NICE THINGS IN THIS THREAD AND IT TURNS INTO THIS, THIS IS WHY I CANT POST NICE THINGS EVER.
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90 Troll Druid
13315
For what its worth, this truly is a shame. The last actual 25 man guild on my original server is dead. I wish those players seeking a new home good luck and those that are staying good luck as well.
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85 Night Elf Druid
13380
Sorry if I wasn't clear, I didn't mean to imply LD did anything nefarious to Pantheon, such as poaching or recruitment trolling.

It's simply the fact that you exist. Many 10m guilds exist which tax 25m guilds. When 25m was the only mode and you simply had raiders and non-raiders, then raiding guilds could recruit raiders.

Now 25m raiding guilds have a very hard time recruiting people due to the fact that they are oh-so-content in their 10m guild. If achievements and loot were separated again, that would change.
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100 Orc Warrior
14555
You have a cool hat, Zam.
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Congratulations to Pantheon on everything you accomplished on this server. You all seemed like very sexy and awesome people. Good luck to you all in the future.

And congratulations to Akraen, I just heard that Dos Equis has fired that handsome bearded fellow, and hired you in his place, since you are undoubtedly.......The Most Interesting Man......In the World!

/HIGHFIVE BROSEPH!
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85 Draenei Death Knight
5260
Pantheon Leadership did not fail, players did.

We were recruiting HARD throughout February and March, not just Frostay, Pyro and me, but everyone was working hard, bringing in quite a few players to the guild to fill our roster and we succeeded in keeping our 25 alive and even got Warmaster down at last. But that doesn't do anything if people don't show up.

We had many plays not post when they weren't going to make it, and most of the time it was mostly because they just didn't 'feel' like raiding. It happened in very prominently in Firelands, and it was happening again, but this time, as the expac was ending and people were overly burnt out because of the inclusion of LFR, we just couldn't hold it together anymore.

Pantheon had a great run, we fought hard to keep it together this expac, and we lost many good players over the last few months. Don't blame the officers, they did their best, don't blame the recruiters, they worked damn hard to find people across this game, and please don't blame anyone who wants to stay behind. Blame the players like me, who went elsewhere or stopped playing instead of sticking it out until the end. We are to blame.
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85 Human Paladin
8180
I miss Paradigm
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85 Dwarf Death Knight
13230
Shadence, the burnout was not a result of LFR or any other factor outside of the control of the leadership.

I made a pretty in-depth post in the Pantheon forums prior to leaving about the style of progression Pantheon uses and why it leads to burnout. ToGC, ICC, and RS burned out some of Pantheon's best players because of the way progression was being done.

The fact of the matter is, a lot of the talent that used to be in Pantheon - And really, the game in general - left it before Cataclysm or soon therafter. The talent pool on SWC is pathetically small now, raid and PvPwise. The talent that was there was propping it up, and when it went away, there was no replacement for it.
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90 Night Elf Mage
5925
No, I do blame them. They gave up. The players who left did so because they lost faith in the leadership. That is not their fault, the leadership let Pantheon down.
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85 Gnome Priest
12230
05/01/2012 11:33 AMPosted by Freznar
You have a cool hat, Zam.


Total pimp hat! I got it from the local BoE Vendor ./points at RP thread. The gnome looks so much better in this set than the forsaken...=(
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85 Dwarf Paladin
6065
I'm sad to see the guild end, Pantheon was an amazing guild thank you for taking me in and allowing me to be part of it. I had a lot of fun and learned a lot it will always be one of my favorite guilds.

Thank you to all the officers and people who tried to recruit and keep the guild alive. I guess people just got burnt out, but u guys tried your best we all did but in the end sadly it just wasn't enough.

Special thanks to Npyro for showing me the guild and convincing me to join. Also thank you to all the officers who allowed me to come in and work my way up to your main tank, I really appreciate it, and thank you to all of the people that stood by the guild to the end. One last thanks to all of the friends I made during this guild I had a lot of good times and a lot of laughs, I hope u know who u are.

Thank you for the good times I respect you all and I wish you all the best of luck in the future.
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