this is why i hate dungeons

85 Blood Elf Death Knight
2865
takes me 11 minutes to get into a dungeon everythings going well tank gets pissed off cuz i needed 1 weapon go to next boss we get wiped i brezz and they say i didnt do it cuz the healer died instantly and i got kicked can you plz fix ur kicking system and why the hell every time i try to kick someone thats using pvp gear in dungeons says i have to wait 4 hours wtf
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Druid
10265
05/01/2012 12:46 AMPosted by Ðeathtoll
takes me 11 minutes to get into a dungeon everythings going well tank gets pissed off cuz i needed 1 weapon go to next boss we get wiped i brezz and they say i didnt do it cuz the healer died instantly and i got kicked can you plz fix ur kicking system and why the hell every time i try to kick someone thats using pvp gear in dungeons says i have to wait 4 hours wtf


let's see
9 unenchanted items
7 empty sockets in 5 items
Missing Ebonsteel Belt Buckle
Reforging
No items have been reforged.
Using tanking weapons as frost dps +4 to all stats in you're relic using a AGILITY TRINKET
tanking shoulders tanking waist 7 PVP ITEMS you're self(funny trying to kick someone for using pvp items when you you're self use them)

I'm sure my reason's is the reason you was kicked and not the made up one's you stated!!
Reply Quote
85 Undead Rogue
1480
05/01/2012 12:46 AMPosted by Ðeathtoll
takes me 11 minutes to get into a dungeon everythings going well tank gets pissed off cuz i needed 1 weapon go to next boss we get wiped i brezz and they say i didnt do it cuz the healer died instantly and i got kicked can you plz fix ur kicking system and why the hell every time i try to kick someone thats using pvp gear in dungeons says i have to wait 4 hours wtf


Reading this made my brain hurt.
Reply Quote
90 Goblin Mage
14915
Using tanking weapons as a frost DK isn't that bad. With weapons, DPS is the first consideration, then primary stat, with secondary stats a distant third. Especially if one of the secondary stats is mastery. The real problem is that the parry rating isn't reforged.

That said, she definitely deserves to get kicked for rolling need against a tank on a weapon that isn't appropriately itemized for any DK spec.
Edited by Keeblik on 5/1/2012 3:10 AM PDT
Reply Quote
85 Gnome Warlock
12050
Can someone translate the OP in English?
Reply Quote
100 Human Priest
18730
05/01/2012 03:18 AMPosted by Armanî
Can someone translate the OP in English?
"I was votekicked for need'ing on something the group didn't agree with and am upset for a variety of incoherent reasons. Also my votekick timer is at four hours and I accept no responsibility for that and want to complain."

There's more, but the translation gets increasingly subjective and debatable.

I certainly feel there's flaws with the votekick system, but I think its working perfectly in the OP's case.
Reply Quote
Forgive my ignorance, but what is the concern with using PVP items in a dungeon?
Reply Quote
90 Dwarf Paladin
13350
PvP items have resilience on them, which does nothing against NPCs. It doesn't improve your damage output, and it doesn't mitigate damage taken from non-players. So half your gear's secondary stats are tied up on a stat that is completely useless in PvE. Since dungeons and raids are as much of a team effort as arenas and battlegrounds, people get rather irked when they're grouped with someone who's handicapping themselves--and by extension, the group--with the wrong gear.

Just as an example, I ran a tanking alt through LFR this weekend for the first time, and it took us three attempts on Ultraxion before we got him down thanks to sub-par dps. My tank was 11th on dps on the second attempt, and when I checked the gear out on the lower dps players most of them were in full sets of PvP gear, along with one shadow priest using Mind Spike. Rule of thumb: If you're doing less dps than the tank, you're doing it wrong.
Edited by Witteafval on 5/1/2012 8:21 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Undead Death Knight
10035
05/01/2012 08:02 AMPosted by Eldras
Forgive my ignorance, but what is the concern with using PVP items in a dungeon?


not much in a 5 man, people will get mad at some mostly because you drop a pve stat in all your gear that is made for pvp since Resistance takes it's place which is worthless in pve. its not so bad for dps , but if its a tank or a healer then it sucks for the group
Edited by Beefnchips on 5/1/2012 8:24 AM PDT
Reply Quote
100 Human Priest
19075
05/01/2012 08:02 AMPosted by Eldras
Forgive my ignorance, but what is the concern with using PVP items in a dungeon?


A 377 blue PvP item is only equivalent to a 359 or so epic, and a 390 epic PvP item is slightly worse than a 378 epic. In both cases, however, it adjusts your ilvl more than it should for PvE content, which is the concern.

If the 372 ilvl barrier to LFR actually meant something and LFR was actually tuned for 372 ilvl, a person with a 377 PvP blue in every slot would be able to queue but wouldn't be able to do better than a person with about 359 ilvl in PvE epics (despite the difference in ilvl).
Reply Quote
Thanks for the explanation. I suppose that is why it makes sense to maintain a separate set of gear for PvP. I don't do any PvP content (at least not yet), hence why I was asking. Thanks!
Reply Quote
85 Human Warrior
8610
PVP gear isn't actually quite as bad as people make it out to be. This discussion came up in trade chat on my realm the other day actually...

Now, I'm not talking about tanks. With plate tanks, the secondary stats (mastery, parry, dodge) are the MOST important. On pvp gear, resilience replaces one of these stats. So for tanks, pvp gear is terrible.

For DPS and heals? It's not optimal, but it's not the worst either.

05/01/2012 03:10 AMPosted by Keeblik
Using tanking weapons as a frost DK isn't that bad. With weapons, DPS is the first consideration, then primary stat, with secondary stats a distant third. Especially if one of the secondary stats is mastery. The real problem is that the parry rating isn't reforged.


The tank weapon isn't that bad for a frost DK in the same way a PVP item isn't that bad for any DPS. Does the parry rating on the sword do anything for the DK? No (unless he pulls threat). So in that manner, it's much the same as resilience.

But what are the other options in that slot?

Hit, expertise, crit, mastery, haste? While all these stats are useful to DPS, they don't make nearly as big of a difference as weapon damage and strength.

So, the argument on my realm was this. If you've got one slot to fill with a PUG for your DS10 run, who would you take: the 378 equipped ilvl DPS with ALL pve gear or the 403 equipped ilvl DPS with all pvp gear?

The correct answer is the 403 pvp gear. As long as it's a DPS. With such a gap in item level, the PVP player has a LOT more strength/agility/intellect on his gear than the pve player. And the flat weapon damage on his weapon will be significantly higher. The only thing you have to worry about is to make sure that the pvp player has reforged for the raid boss hit cap (which is different from the pvp hit cap).

Now, if you're wondering whether you should take a 403 pvp or someone like me, with 397 equipped in all PVE gear, now with the item levels so much closer, the difference in primary stats becomes significantly smaller, and I have enough secondary stats in place of resilience to close the gap.

When it comes to players doing less damage than tanks in LFR, it's not simply a matter of "they have pvp gear." It's a one or more of the following reasons:

Their gear is significantly lower ilvl than the tank (my 372 character can't necessarily out DPS your 400 ilvl tank, no matter my gear).

Their pvp gear isn't reforged for the pve hit cap (simply being below the hit cap will cause a LOT more harm to your DPS than will simply being in pvp gear)

They're in a bad spec, or the pvp version of a good spec and are missing important talents (the pvp build of Arms is significantly different than the pve build)

They're using a pvp rotation (or just face rolling)

They simply have no earthly idea what a rotation is

They're not trying at all

There are a million reasons why someone is doing less DPS than the tank. Simply being in pvp gear is not, by itself, a big enough factor to be the sole reason why someone does less DPS than the tank.

In fact, my pvp gear is actually slightly below my pve gear in equipped ilvl, but if I gemmed, reforged, and enchanted it for pve, I bet the difference in DPS would be 10% or less.
Reply Quote
85 Human Warrior
8610
05/01/2012 08:38 AMPosted by Skjellyfetti
takes me 11 minutes to get into a dungeon


I remember at the start of Cata (before CtA) when dps queues were 50-60 minutes. 11 minutes is nothing.


I remember in vanilla. When we didn't have LFD.
Reply Quote
90 Dwarf Paladin
13350
05/01/2012 08:37 AMPosted by Pogo
There are a million reasons why someone is doing less DPS than the tank. Simply being in pvp gear is not, by itself, a big enough factor to be the sole reason why someone does less DPS than the tank.


In the example I cited earlier, the three players I mentioned were the three lowest on the dps chart. One had the problem of a bad rotation (shadow priest using Mind Spike on a boss) the other two were in full PvP gear, 5-pieces for their set bonuses and all.

It's certainly possible that a dps class can do competitive damage, or even good enough damage, to not hold back their group in a dungeon or raid. If they know their spec well enough and know how to get the most out of what they have, hooray for them. But they could do so much more when they don't have so much of their secondary stat budget wasted on all that useless resilience.

That's what PvEers have against PvP gear. You cheat the queue system with sub-par gear to join groups where you can't pull your weight, and even if you can produce good enough numbers to deflect the criticism, you could have done even better if you'd gotten the right gear. I look forward to this problem getting fixed in Panda.
Reply Quote
100 Human Priest
19075
So, the argument on my realm was this. If you've got one slot to fill with a PUG for your DS10 run, who would you take: the 378 equipped ilvl DPS with ALL pve gear or the 403 equipped ilvl DPS with all pvp gear?

The correct answer is the 403 pvp gear. As long as it's a DPS. With such a gap in item level, the PVP player has a LOT more strength/agility/intellect on his gear than the pve player.


Except that's not a fair comparison for at least two reasons.

First, the 378 equivalent is 390 PvP gear (or arguably the 390 PvP gear equivalent is LFR 384 items, 6 ilvls lower).

Second, the epic PvP gear actually has sockets (especially the meta socket).

To put it in perspective, you're asking whether you should take the person in full 346 PvE gear or full 365 epic PvP gear. Except the gap in this case is actually larger.
Reply Quote
85 Dwarf Warrior
13030
Generally speaking, based on the typing style and armory link provided, there's an incredibly high chance you're leaving things out.

the +4 stats gem in the 390 relic alone makes me think you're trolling on purpose. I feel kind of bad for the real tanks that had you take their gavels.

If people don't want to group with you bad enough to vote remove you, there's usually a reason, and I can find a dozen without even playing with you.

Fix these things and I guarantee you will enjoy dungeons more.

Edit; Bonus points for even making your offspec troll, You really went out of your way for that, rofl.
Edited by Asane on 5/1/2012 12:15 PM PDT
Reply Quote
85 Undead Death Knight
7915
05/01/2012 12:46 AMPosted by Ðeathtoll
why the hell every time i try to kick someone thats using pvp gear in dungeons says i have to wait 4 hours wtf


7 of the OP's items are PVP gear.

This is obviously a troll thread.
Reply Quote
85 Human Warrior
8610
This thread just made me decide to reforge, gem, and enchant my PVP gear for PVE (since I don't really do PVP right now, and don't really intend to before Pandas), and continue to still do FAR more than the minimum DPS required in dungeons and raids.

I might not be #1 in LFR every single time any more (as I typically am now), but it's not like switching to pvp gear (I think I have two pieces of 403 gear from BH, the rest is 390 honor gear or worse) is going to drop me to the bottom 3, and certainly not below any tanks.

Is PVE gear better for PVE than PVP gear? Yes. It impossible to competitive damage in PVE with PVP gear? Absolutely not.
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Death Knight
2865
im only gunna enchant weapons that are 390or higher why would i waste money on it and im talking about tanks using pvp gear not dps keep getting wiped cuz of these bchs that take so much damage then blame the healer
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]