A Warning to the Horde

1 Undead Hunter
0
I got a few things wrong, im discussing it now, more to come soon.

As a quick thing real quick though, i knew merkava for one week and he was anything but a nice guy for that. He started out that way but the minute i got on his bad side it was constant trolling and name calling. I have thick skin and it didnt bother me, but hes a two faced mofo if ive ever seen one. Im sure that those who are his friends hes a nice guy to, but get on his bad side and he is vicious. And Tiasma got on his bad side in a big way.


Just keep an open mind while being a good friend, dude. You'll be ok.
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90 Troll Druid
0
05/11/2012 10:01 PMPosted by Heartz
They bought the new guild from an officer in MY guild. I can verify that they were all guildless for quite some time until they purchased it.


Darn! Beat me to my well thought out post. Well at least the proof is there for those to look over =)
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87 Blood Elf Warlock
4500
I have quite a few updates, but im tired. I will post again tomorow. My own misunderstandings caused me to get a bit wrong, some of which is good and some of which is bad.
Edited by Baval on 5/12/2012 12:39 AM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
11745
^Somebody jumped the gun.

MUSTABEENAWHITEKNIGHT
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87 Blood Elf Warlock
4500
nope. devils in the details but my stance remains largely the same. A few things were my mistakes and at least one was hers. Heres what i know now.

1. She did gkick everyone, and did pay for a guild transfer. These were my misunderstandings due to the way she explained it to me. She called Blizzard directly and had the guild transfer done instantly due to the harassment but aside from that it was a normal guild transfer. She gkicked everyone because she didnt want anyone to get the in game mail showing where she had gone hoping that no one would be able to find her and thus continue harassing her.

2. Though she holds to the story that the logs were full of withdrawals, in an effort to see if i could verify that 100k was taken i asked her how much money was in the bank when she left and how much was in the bank when she took it, which she told me was around 340k and 270k respectively. This matches partially the story presented here of "just over 300k" going down to 270k, but still leaves another 30k uncounted for. This was her error which she admitted to me.

3. She was being harassed in game, but the harasser was not using real id to do it and only mentioned that Merkava had given away her Real Id info among other personal information such as the address and phone number of herself and at least her ex husband. The threats against her person still happened.

4. This harassment did occur and was very serious, which i can confirm due the severe measures she took to rid herself of it as i said before. I still cannot go into detail of what she did as she asked me not to given the personal connections involved so you'll have to take my word for it. Just know that its something severe enough that you don't just do it on a whim.

5. She claims that she has a friend who was in vent after the transfer and overheard at least some individuals talking about how they had been stealing from or had plans to steal from the guild to create their own guild anyway. I cannot verify this claim obviously.

Now a few things from me responding to latest updates.

1. Merkava is not a nice person as i said earlier. There are many people in the world who show respect to their friends but vitriol to everyone else, and from what Ive seen he is one of them. This is my word against what you know of your friend so i dont expect you to believe me, but this is my personal experience and now the experience of Tiasma.

2. I understand now that the guild was purchased after Insight was moved, perhaps it was bad wording or i just didn't understand but at any rate I now know that the guild was not being purchased while the other guild still existed.

3. Anyone who thinks bad of me for defending a persons actions during a highly stressful time and feels that the real life health and well being is worth less than an easily replaced bunch of materials in a video game is a sad person. Im sorry if this offends anyone or turns anyone against me or sounds like White Knighting, but this is my opinion on the matter.

Now on to the important part to those in this thread.

I spent a few hours arguing with her about returning at least some of what she took. She is immediately against it for a few reasons:

1. She doesn't want to give anything to Merkava and those in league with him for what hes done to her. I cant blame her for that in the slightest.

2. She still feels that money was being taken from the guild bank for devious purposes while she was away for two weeks. If its true what she heard from her friend I also cant fault her for this, but argued with her about it at great lengths.

3. She feels betrayed that everyone was quick to jump on the bandwagon of beating her down while no one tried to contact her to get her side of the story first. Barrak claims to have tried to contact her, but I cannot confirm that. I will say that if hes referring to any instance of Merkava trying to contact her that that conversation is guaranteed to have been anything but peaceful contact on both sides. I find fault with both sides on this one, both with her for taking drastic measures that she did, but understand why she did so, and with the people in this thread for jumping on a person who most of you admit you "would never have thought would do something like this" without trying to first find out why she did so, but also understand why you did so.
Edited by Baval on 5/12/2012 9:28 AM PDT
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87 Blood Elf Warlock
4500
That said. She agreed that it was wrong that so many people were put out by her actions against a few people and that the rest were reacting to a betrayal on her part. She told me she would think deeply on the matter over the next week at least and I intend to give my opinion on the matter when possible. She still feels slighted but I am confident that this will end favorably for all involved, since as i said before Tiasma is at her core a good person even if she is hot headed. I do not feel that Merkava and those in league with him deserve anything after what happened, nor if the allegations of stealing are true do i believe any of the thieves do, but everyone who is innocent of everything save trying to warn another server of what to all outside appearance looks like a large ninja is deserving of repayment.

As I have said before, Tiasma has not lied to me in the past even when I disagreed strongly with her on actions shes taken. She further has no reason to lie to me on this because i no longer play the game and feel that anything in game is not that important. I understand some people do and understand where they are coming from. I do not believe she acted out of greed, only out of spite against those who were seeking to ruin her life not only in the game but outside of it as much as possible. I do not feel it was fair to take revenge on the actions of a few with something that affected so many innocent people and told her as much.

Until i can bring more information to the table, this will be my last post unless some new information appears in it that i feel i need to respond to. I apologize for any mistakes i made in my previous defenses.
Edited by Baval on 5/12/2012 8:32 AM PDT
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90 Troll Druid
0
05/12/2012 08:18 AMPosted by Baval
2. Though she holds to the story that the logs were full of withdrawals, in an effort to see if i could verify that 100k was taken i asked her how much money was in the bank when she left and how much was in the bank when she took it, which she told me was around 340k and 270k respectively. This matches partially the story presented here of "just over 300k" going down to 270k, but still leaves another 30k uncounted for. This was her error which she admitted to me.


It was 340k before she withdrew the gold to make a Sandstone Drake for one our raiders. I provided that drake to that raider per her request since she would be on vacation. After the gold needed to make the drake, the gold in the guild would be just under 310k assuming any extra materials were needed and bought. Hence my previous account of "just over 300k." There is no longer an extra 30k gold unaccounted for. She should remember this since I had asked her what the large withdrawal was for which then prompted her request regarding the Sandstone Drake mount.
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85 Tauren Druid
2960
At the core of this is the breakup of Merkava/Tiasma. Breakups tend to bring out the worst in people, and I only know one side of this, but let me say this up front: I'd be pretty pissed if someone tried to string me along for the length of time that she did.
The breakup was between her and Merkava though, not her and the whole guild. If she was leaving due to perceived harrassment, then why not contact each guild member and explain the situation to them? Why should they have to contact her? Why just take everything and leave? None of her explanations for that make any sense, nor seem to be justified. So what if they were taking gold out of the guild bank. She didn't put it all there, the guild did. What she did was STEAL all of it from the members, and she's trying to justify it. It wasn't Merkava's gold. It was the guild's.
You can say what you want about Merkava, since you claim to know him personally, but I don't see how giving out a person's realid is harrassment. Even if he gave out her home address. Guess what, if someone wants to know your home address, you can google that info pretty easily. If you expect to be anonymous here, better not give out any info to anyone. How is this going to ruin her life outside of WOW?
Maybe Merkava gave out her info, maybe he used caps lock when talking to her one too many times. She had no right to steal the guild out from under everyone and run off with the guild bank because she perceived one person to be internet harrassing her.
And you know what, I don't believe that story about Blizz transferring the guild right then and there over the phone because she was being harrassed. Cause they would never find out where she went, right?
Edited by Heartz on 5/12/2012 12:06 PM PDT
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85 Tauren Druid
2960
You said "She will think deeply over the matter over the next week". This means "I stole all of that gold, have no intentions of doing anything else but keeping it, but I have to tell you something to get you off my back".

You're getting played just like everyone else. Good luck with that!
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87 Blood Elf Warlock
4500
You said "She will think deeply over the matter over the next week". This means "I stole all of that gold, have no intentions of doing anything else but keeping it, but I have to tell you something to get you off my back".

You're getting played just like everyone else. Good luck with that!


no, it doesnt. Tiasma has a history of thinking things through over longish periods before being able to change her mind on things. She often sets her mind on something and if she feels pressured to change it will not. As i said, i feel this will be resolved shortly in a way that benefits everyone.

Also for your previous statement, they have to know your real name or some real information to google you. Googling "Tiasma" isnt going to get you jack, thus why giving out a persons real id enables things like this, especially when its accompanied by threats on your person.

This was not just internet harassment. No matter how much you want to pretend they just whispered "lol youre fat" and that was it the matter goes way beyond things you just shrug off.

You dont have to believe anything. Im simply trying to get all the facts straight and resolve the issue.
Edited by Baval on 5/12/2012 4:07 PM PDT
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100 Orc Hunter
14180
you want facts?

She lied. - fact.

She deceived many people who cared about her. - fact.

She led on one of the most caring and overly willing to do anything for someone they care about people I've ever come across. - fact.

When pressed with the truth she took everything this group had and ran. - FACT
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90 Troll Druid
0
05/12/2012 08:18 AMPosted by Baval
3. She was being harassed in game, but the harasser was not using real id to do it and only mentioned that Merkava had given away her Real Id info among other personal information such as the address and phone number of herself and at least her ex husband. The threats against her person still happened.


I've been thinking on this. It seems really convenient that her harasser told her everything she needed to know about who was harassing her and why. A key problem with harassment over the internet is the ability to remain anonymous through choice alone. Why share all the details?
Edited by Vyra on 5/13/2012 11:24 AM PDT
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85 Tauren Druid
2960
"She often sets her mind on something, and if she feels pressured to change, she will not".

Sounds like you are already rationalizing her decision to keep all the gold that she stole.
Nice that it's all up to her what to do with the guild's 300k gold. Nice that she can wait for as long as she wants with gold that she stole to "maybe" decide to do the right thing.
How would she fix it anyway? You can't transfer gold across realms. She's a ninja, and nothing you say can justify it.
I take it from your argument that Merkava was the only person on WOW with her real ID? I think your argument for things going "way beyond things I'm just shrugging off" is a bit off. Maybe she needs to put her big girl panties on and take care of things herself. I think she's just trying to make you feel sorry for her, and it's working. "OH NOES THEY THREATENED TO COME TO MY HOUSE AND BEAT ME UP!" So the answer to that is to guildkick everyone, take all the gold in the guild bank and transfer servers? Does that really sound like someone who is afraid? Cause I'm sure she really pissed off quite a few more people doing that. Someone who was being harrassed and was afraid would have given the guild to somoene else and left.
I feel bad for you because you are being duped like she has duped many before you. I think everyone recognizes this. I hope that you wake up and see it before you waste three years of your life on her like others did.
Oh, and if she was in the right, why can't she get on here and defend her decision? Oh, maybe it's because she was in the wrong..
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100 Tauren Druid
12740
Can I correct Bixby now?

Blind white knight Blind white knight Blind white knight Blind white knight Blind white knight Blind white knight Blind white knight Blind white knight Blind white knight Blind white knight Blind white knight Blind white knight
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90 Troll Druid
20380
i lol'd
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42 Tauren Paladin
11525
AMG!! Exodar drama on Bloodhoof!! SLAP IN THE FACE.

Seriously the QQers from exodar..we got the point..but I'd like to point out something...A guild belong to a GM..not the GM and officers or ect..The GM can do whatever he/she wants to do with it.

I can understand some of you might get pissed off because they put this or that in the G bank but when you put anything in the Gbank, it does not belong to you anymore.

Lesson learn I guess...so keep your drama on your realm.

THANKS!
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85 Tauren Druid
2960
Just because you can do something and get away with it doesn't mean it's ok. Let's say I like to punch stupid people in the face. Let's say I punched you in the face. And you couldn't do anything about it because I punched you in the face with one hand, and am holding a glock in the other. Does that mean it's ok because I was able to do it and you couldn't do anything about it? Absolutely not.

You can blame Tiasma for bringing the drama here, not us. Besides, your forums seem to be pretty dead, so I will assume the thanks was for giving you an entertaining read when you would have had none otherwise.

So... YOU ARE WELCOME :)
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100 Tauren Druid
12740
Fine drama by me. If I didn't want to see it, I wouldn't read it.
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42 Tauren Paladin
11525
Just because you can do something and get away with it doesn't mean it's ok. Let's say I like to punch stupid people in the face. Let's say I punched you in the face. And you couldn't do anything about it because I punched you in the face with one hand, and am holding a glock in the other. Does that mean it's ok because I was able to do it and you couldn't do anything about it? Absolutely not.


Sweetheart, you are confused between legality and morality.As per your example, it's immoral and illegal.
As for moving a Guild as a GM, can be immoral but still legal ( as per Blizzard rules).

So I get you want (or would like) some changes/improvements to those "policies"... you might have more chances to get your point across by addressing this..hmm don't know..first idea might be customer support or something like this, instead of turning this into fingers pointing QQ.

Try again?
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
13945
Not sure how you can get that I am confused between legality and morality. In fact, I was arguing that what she did was immoral, even though it was legal. I just didn't use those words. For example:

"Just because you can do something and get away with it doesn't mean it's OK" is the same thing as "Just because it's legal to guildkick everyone and realm transfer a guild doesn't mean it's the moral thing to do".

The guild members have already tried customer support to resolve this issue. I think they would have even been ok with her leaving with the bank if they could have kept a level 25 guild with all of the rep and achievments they had earned, but as it was they had to pool all of their gold together to buy another guild and start over. The point of this whole thread was to warn the people of your realm, hence the title of the thread "A Warning to the Horde" so that the same thing doesn't happen to people on Bloodhoof.
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