Let there be Raiding for all

90 Night Elf Hunter
8470
Alot has already been done, but this post mentions a few more things that would help

1. LFR loot lockouts are awesome, Normal and Heroic would benefit from loot-lockouts also
2. Capability to turn on mechanics at a lower raid level (for LFR, team must be pre-made)
3. Split the Normal/Heroic lockouts -- allows players to try next raid level

I always hated the raid lockout system, the LFR loot lockout is a vast improvement. It eliminates that one guy in the pug that has already ran the dungeon from ruining the experience. If you have never joined a pug group, what happens is that one player has already downed a boss, when the group goes into the dungeon bosses are now missing. It is a waste of time for 10-25 players. It is totally possible for a single player to ruin other players experiences by joining random pugs, that they know they are already locked to. Second part of the LFR lockout system I like, is that you can practice the raid as many times as you like. You will not get loot, but maybe you can help a friend or guildmate.

I see it would be really nice to be able to experience the next raid tier without worrying about failure. The capability to turn on mechanics at a lower level would be awesome. They don't necessarily have to do the damage, mainly just there so that players can learn. Not all people excel at researching boss mechanics, and some do not have the patience to watch amateur videos on how someone else downed a boss.

Already, a player that has been working on LFR can still run LFR, and also progress on Normal. Why not extend this between Normal and Heroic? One might argue, that would allow them to do 3 tiers each week. (as opposed to two) If they are starting Heroics, they really have no need for anything from LFR.
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85 Human Warrior
8610
1. No. This has been suggested in numerous threads, so if you want all the reasons, go look in any of the other threads where this point has been suggested.

3. No. Mostly for the same reasons as point 1, but for the additional reason that I don't want to feel obligated to wasting time wiping on heroics every week (but will feel so obligated as it doesn't prevent me from getting normal loot in your system).

As for point two? I actually kind of like this idea. Your group that isn't ready for Heroics for one reason or another, but is easily managing Normals can turn on a mechanic in normal (let's say they have to be heroic-eligible first) in order to start practicing Heroic mechanics. For example, there'd be a way to get Normal Yor'sahj to spawn 4 oozes rather than 3, etc.
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85 Dwarf Death Knight
17665
1. LFR loot lockouts are awesome, Normal and Heroic would benefit from loot-lockouts also
2. Capability to turn on mechanics at a lower raid level (for LFR, team must be pre-made)
3. Split the Normal/Heroic lockouts -- allows players to try next raid level


1. Exploitable as hell, look at world first kills and how they did lfr over 25 times to setup their teams for spine
2. Just do normal, if you can't do normal at this level, stop trying to ruin raiding for everyone else. LFR isn't a learning simulator, if it was there would be a lot more things present to make players better, but as it is, it's just a purple parade to encourage resubs til pandas.
3. I don't understand this, you can try heroic without losing anything, except for harder heroic modes (Warmaster/Spine/Madness) . If you wipe in heroic, you still have the option of doing normal. It doesn't prevent you from trying them at all.
Edited by Darthasane on 5/3/2012 9:02 AM PDT
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90 Night Elf Hunter
8470
[quote]
1. Exploitable as hell, look at world first kills and how they did lfr over 25 times to setup their teams for spine

True, exploitable. But what is the advantage of knowing that something is exploitable. You have to realize when they designed LFR they had no clue. Loot lockouts would be awesome, because you could run the same dungeon as many times as you like. Loot distribution could be reduced based on how many are actually eligible. Also ineligible players can be set as "ineligible to recieve loot"

[quote]
2. Just do normal, if you can't do normal at this level, stop trying to ruin raiding for everyone else. LFR isn't a learning simulator, if it was there would be a lot more things present to make players better, but as it is, it's just a purple parade to encourage resubs til pandas.

For something that is an option, why do you care so much?? No one is forcing you to use it, why would you deny something to others that would help their game??

[quote]
3. I don't understand this, you can try heroic without losing anything, except for harder heroic modes (Warmaster/Spine/Madness) . If you wipe in heroic, you still have the option of doing normal. It doesn't prevent you from trying them at all.
If you did full completion on normal, then were invited to a heroic, would you not be locked out? This option allows players to complete their normal grind, and then also try it on the next higher difficulty.

Or maybe, all my comments should be ignored, because it doesn't promote an elite player class system. Things are changing, they are taking more and more notice of posts like this. I would not be suprised if they implemented everything listed here.

Get over it!
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90 Worgen Druid
13210
Or maybe, all my comments should be ignored, because it doesn't promote an elite player class system. Things are changing, they are taking more and more notice of posts like this. I would not be suprised if they implemented everything listed here


They're not ignoring anything, they're making valid points to your "suggestion." Just because someone doesn't agree with what you're trying to say doesn't mean they aren't listening or paying attention.

As for what you were saying...

Loot lockouts would be awesome, because you could run the same dungeon as many times as you like. Loot distribution could be reduced based on how many are actually eligible. Also ineligible players can be set as "ineligible to recieve loot"


Imagine how many guilds would do take their alts etc, even their mains into runs where 8 or 9 people are already ineligible for loot, it'd be a way to shuttle loot to someone and gear out the -entire- raid team in little to no time. I hope nobody out there truly wants this to happen, and as Pogo said, it was discussed more in-depth in other threads.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
8470
05/03/2012 10:08 AMPosted by Velum
Or maybe, all my comments should be ignored, because it doesn't promote an elite player class system. Things are changing, they are taking more and more notice of posts like this. I would not be suprised if they implemented everything listed here


They're not ignoring anything, they're making valid points to your "suggestion." Just because someone doesn't agree with what you're trying to say doesn't mean they aren't listening or paying attention.

As for what you were saying...

Loot lockouts would be awesome, because you could run the same dungeon as many times as you like. Loot distribution could be reduced based on how many are actually eligible. Also ineligible players can be set as "ineligible to recieve loot"


Imagine how many guilds would do take their alts etc, even their mains into runs where 8 or 9 people are already ineligible for loot, it'd be a way to shuttle loot to someone and gear out the -entire- raid team in little to no time. I hope nobody out there truly wants this to happen, and as Pogo said, it was discussed more in-depth in other threads.


Yes true, but the point I made here is that it is a known exploit. They can fix exploits they know about, where they cannot fix exploits they do not know about. A simple fix is to extend the loot-lockout to "ineligible to trade the item" as well. This would eliminate the exploit you speak of.

Edit: I would comment on those posts, but I do not want to necro. In addition, "beating a dead horse" seems to be the only thing that gets serious attention.

LET THE BEATING CONTINUE!
Edited by Nidar on 5/3/2012 10:17 AM PDT
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90 Troll Druid
10620
A simple fix is to extend the loot-lockout to "ineligible to trade the item" as well. This would eliminate the exploit you speak of.


And you just proved that you have not a clue as to what you are talking about.

Actually go READ the other threads like people are telling you, and you will learn something. That issue that you just brought up has been fixed since like week 2 of patch 4.3.
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90 Worgen Druid
4810
The LFR exploit was actually reported during Beta and was not fixed afaik.


Or maybe, all my comments should be ignored, because it doesn't promote an elite player class system. Things are changing, they are taking more and more notice of posts like this. I would not be suprised if they implemented everything listed here.


The problem is not that they don't "promote an elite player class" the problem is that these changes would completely throw the competitive side of WoW PvE out the door or otherwise make it completely miserable for those who take progression a bit more serious than most other players.
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85 Dwarf Death Knight
17665
Yes true, but the point I made here is that it is a known exploit. They can fix exploits they know about,


It's not an exploit by the game's definition, it's an exploit in the way it would be handled.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
8470
The LFR exploit was actually reported during Beta and was not fixed afaik.


Or maybe, all my comments should be ignored, because it doesn't promote an elite player class system. Things are changing, they are taking more and more notice of posts like this. I would not be suprised if they implemented everything listed here.


The problem is not that they don't "promote an elite player class" the problem is that these changes would completely throw the competitive side of WoW PvE out the door or otherwise make it completely miserable for those who take progression a bit more serious than most other players.


I thought about this one, truly the problem isn't giving away the loot. The problem is giving/selling the raid run or the tier gear. I see that large guilds would sell runs as they already do.

But, as I said, if you know the exploit, you can plan appropriately.

Its all about supply and demand, but you really can't cut the supply, without impacting players enjoying the game. So instead you cut the demand.

Why would players cheat the system, and buy raid runs or tier gear??
1. Content too dificult for their equipped gear -- need better system to ensure proper gear
2. Don't understand the mechanics -- fix in item #2 in my original post
3. No incentive to do Guild runs -- provide incentive to the player to complete guild runs
4. They don't have the Achievement -- see #2 above and in original post

If you think of the real issues, creative answers can be found.
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90 Draenei Paladin
15075
Do you even raid.. like.. from looking at your raid achivements you haven't set foot in a raid this whole expansion with the exception of LFR.

I donno if you're really one to talk about how raids should work

And no the 4 kills in normal DS don't count
Edited by Barfus on 5/3/2012 3:39 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Mage
13600
7/10 few people were biting but you just got a bit to ahead of yourself
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90 Worgen Hunter
10540
Not everyone wants to raid. And not everyone has the ability or the time or the raid awareness to down heroics. That doesn't mean Blizzard should just hand them the kills. If someone really wanted to kill normal Morchok, he/she would have by now. But completion numbers for the earliest normal modes are NOT that high. Not everyone wants to raid. Blizzard needs to learn that they can't force raiding on the majority of the player-base by just making it laughably easy. Everyone who didn't want to raid before still won't be raiding, and the raid will just end up dumbed-down and boring for the rest of the raiders.
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85 Dwarf Shaman
0
05/03/2012 04:06 PMPosted by Primalmatter
7/10 few people were biting but you just got a bit to ahead of yourself


^
no1 can actually be that stupid, such an obvious troll
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8425
What could be below LFR in difficulty? Had to stop right there. Troll alarms were going off full force.

I shouldn't be immediately on alert in the second sentence, but the rest of your post fits the "you guys are elitist" and "we need to cater to the paying customers which are casuals" fare. As was said, reacted too fast.

5/10.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
0
05/03/2012 04:06 PMPosted by Primalmatter
7/10 few people were biting but you just got a bit to ahead of yourself
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90 Troll Shaman
8705
I am going to beat my own dead horse.

3. No

it should be

3. 10 and 25 separate lockout, with 25 giving better loot (just like wrath) and 10 giving a lower GS (6) but 6 higher than LFR. Because this whole "10 and 25" should be equal thing just isn't right honestly. 10 mans would be puggable (if decent pugs), 25 mans would be endgame (just like it has always been until Cata), the server community would be somewhat better, and people would still have their LFR.

EDIT: Heroics will still exist in 10 and 25, with the same 6 GS gap
Edited by Batbirt on 5/7/2012 8:53 PM PDT
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