Take out the premade from random

80 Blood Elf Hunter
1490
05/11/2012 03:26 AMPosted by Raistmajere
I thought premades had their own queue at one time but it took so long that people complained until they mixed them back with the general population. That was right before I quit for over a year and it was not coincidental. At the risk of repeating myself, it's all about the server tax.


I thought so too.

Maybe premades should ONLY go against premades, it will settle the arguement for both sides in this debate
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85 Night Elf Priest
5010
Premades are groups who arent good but want to be respected in the regular battle grounds. Premades in fact are fallen victims of rgb' battlegrounders and they are scarred for life so they try to take it out on non social wow player who prefer bg's to rated bg's but you premade battlegrounders mess that up now, as prince of warcraft i will use my bow to convince blizzard to change this thank you nagrog, old friend
lol this is a complete load of crap... I think Nagorg payed his Engrish teacher $10 to write this.

I thought so too.

Maybe premades should ONLY go against premades, it will settle the arguement for both sides in this debate
If it awarded more conquest or something (basically an option b/w randoms & RBGs) yes I would agree with this. However if it offered the same rewards as a random then I would be totally against it.

Why? Because the people crying about premades are almost exclusively bad players with apparently nobody online to group with. Why should those of us that actually take the time & effort to form a premade be essentially penalized because people like Nagorg are premadiophobic?
Edited by Faenya on 5/11/2012 5:24 AM PDT
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Why? Because the people crying about premades are almost exclusively bad players with apparently nobody online to group with. Why should those of us that actually take the time & effort to form a premade be essentially penalized because people like Nagorg are premadiophobic?


Wait, you said in another thread that a premade and RBG team are not the same...yet now you claim that it takes "time & effort" to set up a premade...just like an RBG. So you are sort of a RBG team, but not quite? So a substandard RBG team?

Just admit that the whole "play with friends" stuff is a facade and you support premades because they steamroll randoms and it is easy honor. That is the specific reason for a premade, nothing else.
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85 Night Elf Priest
5010
Wait, you said in another thread that a premade and RBG team are not the same...yet now you claim that it takes "time & effort" to set up a premade...just like an RBG
Solo queueing takes no time or effort.... forming a premade takes some time & effort... forming an RBG takes a fair amount of time & effort. No controversy here at all.

Just admit that the whole "play with friends" stuff is a facade and you support premades because they steamroll randoms and it is easy honor. That is the specific reason for a premade, nothing else.
This is the butt hurt interpretation (glass is half empty). Yes people form premades to increase their chances of winning... what could you possibly find wrong with that? If you are forming a dodgeball team do you pick the fat kid with a broken throwing arm or the guy that can actually move & throw the ball?

Honestly I just don't get where you are coming from... WoW is an MMORPG (teamwork is encouraged) & the objective of a BG is to win. Premades just facilitate teamwork & winning. If you want to get your panties in a bunch about something that Blizzard actually encourages then you have issues.
Edited by Faenya on 5/11/2012 6:06 AM PDT
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90 Human Mage
10955

This is the butt hurt interpretation (glass is half empty). Yes people form premades to increase their chances of winning... what could you possibly find wrong with that? If you are forming a dodgeball team do you pick the fat kid with a broken throwing arm or the guy that can actually move & throw the ball?


Well you kind of hurt your own argument with this analogy.

Random pug bgs don't get a choice whether they get the fat kid with a broken arm. It is obviously unfair to pit random people collected together without regard for spec or gear against people specifically chosen for both.
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85 Night Elf Priest
5010
Well you kind of hurt your own argument with this analogy.

Random pug bgs don't get a choice whether they get the fat kid with a broken arm. It is obviously unfair to pit random people collected together without regard for spec or gear against people specifically chosen for both
No I didn't... I want to maximize my chances of winning & I would prefer to not have the fat kid with a broken throwing arm on my team because he is counter-productive to winning (just like bad random players). It's not unfair at all... they could have formed their own team and/or not be bad themselves.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14285
Well you kind of hurt your own argument with this analogy.

Random pug bgs don't get a choice whether they get the fat kid with a broken arm. It is obviously unfair to pit random people collected together without regard for spec or gear against people specifically chosen for both.


Well then.. can we further split the queue for those that wear PvE items and those that don't? And then split it again for those that use legendary weapons and those that don't?

I just don't think it's fair that random PUGs have to deal with a mage wearing Dragonwrath, Tarecgosa's Rest and Cunning of the Cruel.

Waah~
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97 Human Warrior
10825
Well you kind of hurt your own argument with this analogy.

Random pug bgs don't get a choice whether they get the fat kid with a broken arm. It is obviously unfair to pit random people collected together without regard for spec or gear against people specifically chosen for both.


Well then.. can we further split the queue for those that wear PvE items and those that don't? And then split it again for those that use legendary weapons and those that don't?

I just don't think it's fair that random PUGs have to deal with a mage wearing Dragonwrath, Tarecgosa's Rest and Cunning of the Cruel.

Waah~


Grouping with 4 other people and joining a random BG is not my idea of a premade...it is simply a group of friends that join together and enter the queue. But since you all refer to a five man as a premade, I will as well. Five man premades influence the results of a BG SOMETIMES....but not always...in fact I see what I think are premades lose a fair amount of the time.

Whereas, when the MAJORITY of the team's players group and enter together, with organization and communication (vent, perhaps) that severely tilts the game in their favor.
Because anything 5 and under does not constitute a majority of the players in the BG, I have no issue with it at all. In fact, I do this with friends as much as I can and it makes the BG much more fun. I consider this fair because both sides have the ability to do this WITHIN Blizzard's queue rules, whereas using AV enabler and filling an AV with 38 out of 40 players circumvents Blizzard's rules and severely imbalances the BG in favor of the premade. I do not care for this practice.

The people arguing that a 5 man premade is unfair are just being obstinate. All have the ability to legally form a five man group and enter a BG. if you cannot or choose not to, that is your problem, not ours. I understand it may seem unfair, but just like heirlooms, this practice is available to ALL.
And to those who say we form premades because we are afraid of competition, or want to greatly increase our chances of winning...no on the first part and YES YES YES on the second. Any team should always want to maximize its talent. I also do premades to help friends who need gear or are new to BGs and want to learn the strats. But I mainly do them because I enjoy playing with my friends in PVP the same way I enjoy going into PVE content with friends. Why would the friendship that makes PVE so much more enjoyable have no place in PVP? Right, it should have a place and it DOES have a place because Blizzard recognizes this principle as well.

If you cannot acknowledge this...you are not being reasonable. You are just blindly arguing for the sake of argument.
Edited by Oaklander on 5/11/2012 6:45 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14285
Grouping with 4 other people and joining a random BG is not my idea of a premade...it is simply a group of friends that join together and enter the queue. It influences the results of the BG SOMETIMES....but not always...in fact I see what I think are premades lose a fair amount of the time.

A premade is where the MAJORITY of the team's players group and enter together, with organization and communication (vent, perhaps) that severely tilts the game in their favor.
Because anything 5 and under does not constitute a majority of the players in the BG, I have no issue with it at all. In fact, I do this with friends as much as I can and it makes the BG much more fun. I consider this fair because both sides have the ability to do this WITHIN Blizzard's queue rules, whereas using AV enabler and filling an AV with 38 out of 40 players circumvents Blizzard's rules and severely imbalances the BG in favor of the premade.

The people arguing that a 5 man premade is unfair are just being obstinate. All have the ability to legally form a five man group and enter a BG. if you cannot or choose not to, that is your problem, not ours. I understand it may seem unfair, but just like heirlooms, this practice is available to ALL.
And to those who say we form premades because we are afraid of competition, or want to greatly increase our chances of winning...no on the first part and YES YES YES on the second. Any team should always want to maximize its talent. I also do premades to help friends who need gear or are new to BGs and want to learn the strats. But I mainly do them because I enjoy playing with my friends in PVP the same way I enjoy going into PVE content with friends. Why would the friendship that makes PVE so much more enjoyable have no place in PVP? Right, it should have a place and it DOES have a place because Blizzard recognizes this principle as well.

If you cannot acknowledge this...you are not being reasonable. You are just blindly arguing for the sake of argument.


I was being facetious. You know that, right?

I'm not entirely sure why you quoted that post.
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90 Worgen Rogue
4080
Find people to BG with in a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER, seriously i hate people and i still have people to bg with. You have no excuse to why you are not "playing with friends".
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90 Orc Death Knight
7250
05/11/2012 10:37 AMPosted by Mafic
Poor sportsmanship and gaming habits are being developed by youngsters that believe a premade up against a random group is normal, and will allow growth in their skill and learning of the game. Fun is too subjective, but I will say that inherently all people find something fun if they are able to participate.


Dont forget Einstein said the time is relative. Like when the bg are balanced the time go faster because it's fun and when the bg are not balanced the time go slower because it's not as fun.
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85 Worgen Druid
3940
# 1 15 pages now, lulz. Thanks for keeping it one thread though.

#2 For all of you that are so mad about going up against premades. How often are you guys really coming up against premades? As much as you QQ you would think you're dealing with a premade every random BG you get into. Which I have a very hard time believing that this would be true. I think sometimes you guys are mistaking good players in randoms for a premade.

I queue randoms solo and with groups on both my Alliance toons and Horde toon. And I'm playing usually at least 1 -3 BGs per day. The amount of time I see a premade on the other side is very likely in the range of 1 in 10 BGs.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
11600

Why should those of us who only have a very limited window of play time in the evenings, and choose to spend it in BGs, be essentially penalized because people like you want to steamroll randoms with a premade?


One can assume the same for another that runs solo in full decked out gear only to stomp those gearing up.

You don't get to straddle both sides of the fence. Premade proponents routinely say they would welcome the challenge of facing other premades because they aren't just in it for the points; they're not there just because it's easy to roll PUG groups! They also just want to group with friends - don't threaten the social aspect of things!


Biased opinion. It's only easy to say this when viewing it from one end.

You can be just as social with your friends fighting other premades. You will get just as much honor/conquest for a WIN as you do vs PUGs.


Of course you would.

Or is the penalty you are referring to the fact that you won't get to basically win every match by default? Or that the queue might take a little longer? That your HPH (Honor Per Hour - lol) might go down?


Win every match by default? Really an over exaggerated statement. Not all premades win. I have pics if you want to see them.

I'm sure there are people that run premades just for fun with friends that don't really care too much about win/loss ratios or their HPH, but I'd bet this WoW account I rarely play anymore that they are the exception rather than the rule.


I don't care much for win/loss ratio due to not afking out in horrible matches. It's a nice change being able to run with a guildie or two after a rough time trying to enjoy a couple of games.

Just based off the bahavior I routinely see from premade groups they tend more along the lines of the XBox Live crowd, showing the same !@#$ty attitude and disdain for other players.


Then maybe multiplayer online gaming isn't for you.

I say put premades back into the premade queues and settle the issue once and for all. Do it for those who have limited play time! Do it to put some level playing field back in random BGs! Do it for the the age old American value of fairplay and good sportsmanship! And if that's not enough, do it for the kids!


http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/9350/wowscrnshot051112013018.jpg

I think this is proof enough that the queue system does indeed attempt to match premades against others. Perhaps it should be improved, but it's still implemented.

Edit:
I queue randoms solo and with groups on both my Alliance toons and Horde toon. And I'm playing usually at least 1 -3 BGs per day. The amount of time I see a premade on the other side is very likely in the range of 1 in 10 BGs.


I honestly believe it's random.

Some days when running solo, I don't run into any at all. Other days I run into them constantly.
Edited by Kirama on 5/11/2012 11:01 AM PDT
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97 Human Warrior
10825

Why should those of us who only have a very limited window of play time in the evenings, and choose to spend it in BGs, be essentially penalized because people like you want to steamroll randoms with a premade?


One can assume the same for another that runs solo in full decked out gear only to stomp those gearing up.

You don't get to straddle both sides of the fence. Premade proponents routinely say they would welcome the challenge of facing other premades because they aren't just in it for the points; they're not there just because it's easy to roll PUG groups! They also just want to group with friends - don't threaten the social aspect of things!


Biased opinion. It's only easy to say this when viewing it from one end.

You can be just as social with your friends fighting other premades. You will get just as much honor/conquest for a WIN as you do vs PUGs.


Of course you would.

Or is the penalty you are referring to the fact that you won't get to basically win every match by default? Or that the queue might take a little longer? That your HPH (Honor Per Hour - lol) might go down?


Win every match by default? Really an over exaggerated statement. Not all premades win. I have pics if you want to see them.

I'm sure there are people that run premades just for fun with friends that don't really care too much about win/loss ratios or their HPH, but I'd bet this WoW account I rarely play anymore that they are the exception rather than the rule.


I don't care much for win/loss ratio due to not afking out in horrible matches. It's a nice change being able to run with a guildie or two after a rough time trying to enjoy a couple of games.

Just based off the bahavior I routinely see from premade groups they tend more along the lines of the XBox Live crowd, showing the same !@#$ty attitude and disdain for other players.


Then maybe multiplayer online gaming isn't for you.

I say put premades back into the premade queues and settle the issue once and for all. Do it for those who have limited play time! Do it to put some level playing field back in random BGs! Do it for the the age old American value of fairplay and good sportsmanship! And if that's not enough, do it for the kids!


http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/9350/wowscrnshot051112013018.jpg

I think this is proof enough that the queue system does indeed attempt to match premades against others. Perhaps it should be improved, but it's still implemented.

Edit:
I queue randoms solo and with groups on both my Alliance toons and Horde toon. And I'm playing usually at least 1 -3 BGs per day. The amount of time I see a premade on the other side is very likely in the range of 1 in 10 BGs.


I honestly believe it's random.

Some days when running solo, I don't run into any at all. Other days I run into them constantly.

I would say it is more like 1 in 10 if that...constantly? NEVER....
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100 Night Elf Rogue
11600


I would say it is more like 1 in 10 if that...constantly? NEVER....


One's point of view dude, thought you didn't care.
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97 Human Warrior
10825


I would say it is more like 1 in 10 if that...constantly? NEVER....


One's point of view dude, thought you didn't care.


Oh, did I say I cared? Nope I didnt and for good reason. i dont care if your point of view is wrong.
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90 Undead Priest
9050
I've read through all 14 pages, and the same opinions have been said over an over.

Premades are just a group of friends wanting to do something together that they enjoy. It's not wrong for them to que, if it makes you so mad, then why que for a Random battleground?

Some premades are about people wanting to own noobs or something, I run premades, because I like doing things with people I know. Sometimes I just que with a friend, and he runs around killing people with his War Glaives.

To restate the same opinion that I think seems most logical to the human mind, if grouping with a group of friends that I know are skilled, why NOT que with them? It will help me win the game, while being able to enjoy the battleground, without wanting to rip my hair out.


you said "Premades want to own noobs" - how can you tell who are noobs and is it that someone not in a premade is classified a noob.
There something very strange with you if you like running around killing "noobs". maybe blizzard can set up some level 1 or 2 for you to enjoy

You are "not logical to the human mind" with these thoughts


Sorry if my use of noob was confusing, my thoughts are kinda scattered a lot.
Noob as in the mid fielders, the undergeared who wear greens and blues into Battlegrounds.

What SEEMS logical is that, if I know a group of people that are skilled, why not que with them?

It would increase my chances of winning, anyone and everyone can form a premade, I don't understand why the more undergeared don't que with friends to increase THEIR chances of winning.

Is there any person that dont do premade that can give there opinon jeeze. I guess no one think like me.

Like I said maybe blizz can just give a bonus for dommage and heal like in random dongeon group soo it will be fair.


Premades negate stupid.

You can't fix stupid.


Premades ftw.
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