Nazgrels lack of good raiders.

90 Night Elf Priest
10075
In the 4.3 progression thread Demonkillerd made a comment that got me thinking.

05/08/2012 12:54 PMPosted by Demonkillerd
I wish Nazgrel had a few more good raiders!


Granted we are a low pop server but could we do more as good raiders to be more progressed? Do we care? Are we happy being "Nazfail".

I think this server lacks some community. How many of the top raiders are raiding on alts outside of guild with other raiders? How many good raiders do you know? I think we could branch out abit more and raid with some other guilds. The whole Guild lvl thing has caused some of us to separate ourselves from the rest of the good guilds/players within the server. I bet many of the top teams right now are having some problems filling absentee spots from time to time. While at the same time quality raiders are sitting in SW on an off day with nothing to do. There are plenty of good raiders on this realm but i think alot of us have no idea who each other are. I for one think this server is better then the numbers would make everyone believe. Anyway was just curious if anyone thinks the same way and if not, why or do we care.
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90 Human Paladin
10930
Dungeon Finder killed any sense of community this game had. Before DF you actually had to get to know people on your server, make connections. You don't need to do that anymore. Nobody knows anyone outside of their guild.
Edited by Sliphe on 5/8/2012 6:25 PM PDT
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05/08/2012 06:23 PMPosted by Sliphe
Dungeon Finder killed any sense of community this game had. Before DF you actually had to get to know people on your server, make connections. You don't need to do that anymore. Nobody knows anyone outside of their guild.


This would only be valid if Nazgrel had good raiders prior to the introduction of Dungeon and Raid Finder. It did not. Nazgrel was one of the only servers that failed to kill Kil'Jaeden before the launch of Wrath of the Lich King. The only time Nazgrel ever succeeded at raiding was almost immediately following the launch of the server, when an Alliance guild blew through the early TBC raids with easy. They were subsequently recruited by a guild on another server almost immediately. The day they left was the day any chance of success for Nazgrel's raiding scene was extinguished permanently. Since then, Nazgrel has been infested with a plague of people who are unwilling to listen to people tell them how to get better at the game, fully encumbered by a stubborn, unwavering desire to believe they play their class perfectly, despite every indication that the opposite is true, and that their DPS is awful because their class is underpowered. Nazgrel is forever hampered by morons who can't handle constructive criticism, content to believe that everyone else is just an !@#$%^-. Thus, most people who actually know what they are doing eventually give up, frustrated by the fact that 9 or 24 others are hampering their own progression, transfer off the server and find happiness elsewhere. It's a never ending cycle, now. Anyone who becomes good sees the same thing, and it's way easier to just leave the server now. Waiting for enough people to take their heads out of their own asses and research what they have to do takes far too long to be worth the time investment.
Edited by Implosion on 5/8/2012 7:11 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Warrior
14110
A Storm Is Coming..
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90 Night Elf Priest
10075
05/08/2012 07:10 PMPosted by Implosion
Nazgrel was one of the only servers that failed to kill Kil'Jaeden before the launch of Wrath of the Lich King. The only time Nazgrel ever succeeded at raiding was almost immediately following the launch of the server, when an Alliance guild blew through the early TBC raids with easy. They were subsequently recruited by a guild on another server almost immediately. The day they left was the day any chance of success for Nazgrel's raiding scene was extinguished permanently.


So something that happened 5 yrs ago has sent this server into an irreversible tailspin? Unlikley. Many ppl have come and gone since then. Also the success or failure of one guild does not define a server.

Im trying to start some dialog on a way to improve the status of the servers raiding community. I dont have any expectations to crack the top 100 but it seems like there is alot of negativity going around and not much is being done about it. Seems very counter productive imo.
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85 Human Paladin
8930
05/08/2012 07:57 PMPosted by Kyndale
Im trying to start some dialog on a way to improve the status of the servers raiding community

Nazgrel is just a stepping stone, unfortunately at the bottom of the stairs... I gave nazgrel about 3 years to better itself, but gave up at the end of wrath. If anybody is looking for a LARGE community of friendly players who also know how to raid, it will have to be on a different server... Any productive advice i can give is transfer off. This isn't a negative comment, just speaking my opinion.

This is a vicious circle
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11695
Only because people on this server dont take decent players into consideration. There are hardly any pugs that can clear all of DS. And Bamf is right. I've taken most of my toons to Hyjal. All pugs go 8/8 there usually and some go 5/8H. This server isnt worth it anymore.
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90 Troll Hunter
14095
You're comparing Nazgrel, a server with 8800 lvl 85s to Hyjal with 21,000. In fact all servers in the top 100 have over 10,000 except 2, they are 94 and 95 and they both have 700 more 85s then us. a few hundred extra 85s works wonders when it comes to a talent pool. Think of it like this, the best high school or even college football programs usually come from higher population schools. High Schools with 1000-2000 kids usually dominate the conference while the schools with 500-1000 kids are usually at the bottom.

We're a Medium to Low pop server with a casual raiding environment. I know this might be hard for some to accept but even the most progressed guilds on Nazgrel like Chain Pull and Jinx only raid 10-12 hours a week. That is pretty casual. Most high end raiding guilds raid for 15+ hours a week and the really good ones raid 8 hours a day, 5+ days a week during progression. They also have extras around and people with multiple geared toons to fill a hole in case someone misses or to class stack for certain fights.

The fact is, most people aren't willing to commit the time it takes to progress on content. In Chain Pull we wiped almost 200 times on Heroic Spine before we got it. Paragon wiped 500 times on Heroic Rag before they got it. There are people on this server that QQ after one wipe. Imagine them after wiping 25+ times during a 4 hour raid night.

You want to progression raid, come prepared to wipe over and over. Look at logs, correct people. You have to check your ego at the door. I still get reminded by guildies that I got hit by a fire wall 3 attempts in a row the first time I ever did Rag. You screw up here you get called out, it's that simple. Hardcore guilds are even worse. They'll spend time between every attempt looking at logs and seeing what happened.

Logs are not just to see how high you can rank on the meters but to see what you got hit by?, how much it hit you for?, can it be avoided?, can it be healed thru?, do we need more DPS on a different target?, are people padding meters or boss camping instead of doing their job?, does the strat that we're using work with our raid comp?, etc...

How many people on this server actually consult with the top end guilds either on this server or else where as to how to down a boss? I know Fus does and very few people come to him for advice on what worked for Chain Pull. When he is more than willing to talk about strat with other people, particularly after we've downed the boss. Just cause you watched a video one time doesn't mean you have all the knowledge necessary to down the boss. On many bosses, especially heroic, there is always some quirky thing that has to be done by either one person or everyone to help get the boss down that no video explains fully.

If you want this server to be a serious, successful, raiding server, then people need to take it seriously.
Edited by Curufingon on 5/9/2012 4:37 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
10930
tl;dr I like cat food.
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90 Worgen Warlock
14745
What Curu said is pretty true actually. And the what Bamf said about Nazgrel. I love the realm personally but when our guild had just one hole it was nearly impossible to fill it, all the good raiders were already saved to another group or had to dedicate their extra toons to a raid team. Our group was lucky to find a good DPS to fill in our empty spot.
But unfortunately life happens and one more spot may become open one week and then that steps back in progression, so now our team has moved to a higher population realm and merged with a pretty large guild. (Average Tuesday night is 1 25 man team and 3-4 10 man teams raiding Dragon Soul)
Now being on a higher population realm filling in the gaps is so easy, unless it's a monday. Nazgrel is a great and fun realm, and I'm not talking bad about it. Just pointing out observations.

P.S. Hello Sliphe
Edited by Banished on 5/9/2012 5:28 PM PDT
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90 Orc Hunter
16575
05/08/2012 06:00 PMPosted by Kyndale
In the 4.3 progression thread Demonkillerd made a comment that got me thinking.

You should have stopped right there.
I wish Nazgrel had a few good raiders!

FIXT

Granted we are a low pop server but could we do more as good raiders to be more progressed?.

Please see above.

Do we care?

No

How many good raiders do you know?

Please see above.

There are plenty of good raiders on this realm but i think alot of us have no idea who each other are.

Please see above.

I for one think this server is better then the numbers would make everyone believe.

Please see above.
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85 Human Priest
13815
05/09/2012 05:27 PMPosted by Banished
so now our team has moved to a higher population realm and merged with a pretty large guild.


Translation: XFERRED TO GET CARRIED
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90 Dwarf Paladin
17055
You're comparing Nazgrel, a server......


Sorry couldn't read the rest....
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90 Troll Hunter
14095
You forgot to post on your DK Eb.
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90 Worgen Warlock
14745
so now our team has moved to a higher population realm and merged with a pretty large guild.


Translation: XFERRED TO GET CARRIED


Lol hi Eberle. How's your progression in Dragon Soul? What happened to Been There Downed That?
Edited by Banished on 5/9/2012 6:46 PM PDT
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5745
05/09/2012 06:38 PMPosted by Banished
What happened to Been There Downed That?


Eb was one of our top dps.. that's what happened.. yes THAT BAD
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90 Night Elf Priest
10075
ah eberle thanks for being helpful. Great insight.

So if this server is a lost cause why are some of you still lvling toons here. You have to like something about this place.

I know for our guild ppl like Bamf and Sliphe have raided with us and have had an impact on our progression. I dont see why everyone wouldnt want to get to know every good raider they can. Its only gonna help.

And as far as what curu is saying of commitment to wiping for progression, i beleive for any of the good raiders that is a give in and part of being a raider.
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90 Night Elf Priest
10075
I love the realm personally but when our guild had just one hole it was nearly impossible to fill it, all the good raiders were already saved to another group or had to dedicate their extra toons to a raid team. Our group was lucky to find a good DPS to fill in our empty spot.
But unfortunately life happens and one more spot may become open one week and then that steps back in progression, so now our team has moved to a higher population realm and merged with a pretty large guild. (Average Tuesday night is 1 25 man team and 3-4 10 man teams raiding Dragon Soul)
Nazgrel is a great and fun realm, and I'm not talking bad about it. Just pointing out observations.


This is the core of what im talking about. You guys leavin due to missing/needing one spot filled. There had to be someone of quality available. We just dont know enough of eveyone. If everyone made some effort to help each other out you guys wouldnt have left and the server would be better off for still having you here.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
9275
05/09/2012 09:30 PMPosted by Kyndale
This is the core of what im talking about. You guys leavin due to missing/needing one spot filled. There had to be someone of quality available. We just dont know enough of eveyone. If everyone made some effort to help each other out you guys wouldnt have left and the server would be better off for still having you here.


The patience, time, and energy to me isnt worth the outcome compared to what other servers have to offer. For example in GBU, when we went over a month of missing 2-3 people every night, on a 2day raid week, we didnt kill another boss for the entire period. As hard as preamo/stare etc tried to find quality to fill the slots, it wasn't happening. On another server quality could have been found, and what is 6/8H now could have been 8/8H long ago imo.

I don't blame anyone for leaving in hopes to find better, but as for making nazgrel's community better only thing i can think of is the storm thing.. maybe with alts though instead of mains.. that way everyone is connected like you're thinking, but still with their core.

Inb4 Nazgrel needs another guild....
Edited by Lînk on 5/9/2012 10:32 PM PDT
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86 Worgen Druid
12115
100% agree with link, I was the gm of ,<every tasty bite> horde side and a member of <turtle smasher> alliance side. horde side we couldn't fill raids and any pug or app we go was a waste of air. Alliance side idk I just showed up for raid. I have been guildless spamming trade for a guild for 2-3 weeks now looking for something on the weekend as tank/moonkin and I have got nothing, so I just log back on my main or alts not on naz and pug content most guilds can't do here.
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