Horde RP issues.

85 Blood Elf Hunter
3320
Alright. I really wasn't going to put my two cents in, but this is just getting my blood going - and no, kiddies, not in the good way.

I came to Shadow Council in September of 2010. Not that long ago huh? Nope, it's not. I was randomly poking around trying to find RP because it sounded like fun and I was bored with PvP/PvE. I had never RP'd before on any platform...ever. I was incredibly nervous and intimidated but you know what? I rolled the dice and took a chance. I ended up meeting some incredibly amazing people within the first few weeks who have taken me under their wing and really taught me so much that I can't accurately put it into words. They have coached me, helped me with my storylines, my backstories, my blogs and always been nothing but 100% supportive. Hell most of them have been just as supportive as I've dealt with real life challenges over the past year. I can honestly say I don't know what I'd do without them. It still humbles me now, a year and a half later, that I am surrounded by such a high quality of not only RPers...but simply high quality people.

So when I see something like this, I gotta wonder. What the hell? I've butted heads with people, I've had disagreements sure. No one is ever going to agree all the time...it's not gonna happen. Period. It's how you handle it though, that distinguishes you. And I am sorry, because I don't recognize your character (which I am going to assume is an alt), but I'm going to guess you handled it poorly. From what I can see you didn't go through any of the proper channels available to you to voice your grievances or concerns and you just worked yourself up into a huff and decided to say, "WELL SCREW THEM ALL!" Hey, if that's how it is, so be it. But the need to throw people under the bus and blame them for everything is very childish to me as well as unnecessary. If you're leaving anyway why be so spiteful before you go? It's pointless. But I guess that says volumes about your personal character - at least it does to me anyway.

I've gotten angry and seethed quietly at my keyboard, but then I go to bed and get over it by the next day. I vented to my (amazingly patient and tolerant) friends who let me ramble and growl and !@#$% and moan and then it's done. So I guess this kind of lashing out just doesn't make sense to me.

Now despite all of this, I want to wish you the best of luck whatever decision you come to. If you really feel this strongly then perhaps a fresh start on a new server is best for you. Lord knows I contemplated it in the heat of my anger, but I've never gone through with it. Doubt I ever will, really. If you choose to stay however, try to take a good look around you and assess the community as a whole and speak up if you don't like something. Blindsiding people on a thread you started and then linked to Haven is just spiteful and petty.

But everyone makes mistakes. Just learn from them.
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
6570
i will say one thing about this post: there are many RPers out there that DO want to control the environment to make an absolute control zone over a certain area. in this case silvermoon city and one particular guild. it's not something new, and it wont be the last we see of this either. yes, i don't RP with many of their lot, but not because i don't enjoy them as individuals, i simply don't enjoy their guild politics (the way they try to run things ICLY in a city, and frankly OOCly)

now then, you can completely bash on the person that made this for bringing the subject matter up, but it's true; some of you are completely missing the point in which its GUILDS not PEOPLE that are the cause of this. and there are many poeple responding to this which actualyl does in fact give me hope for remaining RP community on this server. cliques will always exist, because it's human nature. but lets not turn into the Duma here and try to seize control of every aspect of a particular areas comings and goings, that's just wrong. RP should be kept fun and not subjugated to the will and leave of a handful of people who fancy themselves lord-of-all.

again, GUILDS are the problem here, not the people in them. politics, not personal opinion of the matter.

I will however point out that there is a particular person on this thread (who i can't and wont call out by name due to forum rules) that really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really doesn't have the SLIGHTEST room to opine on this sort of subject matter...solely for the purpose that they are responsible for quite possibly the absolute worst (lore wise et all) RP that this server has ever seen. to the point of where people just drop their SH*t and leave to get away from the idiocy.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3255
05/10/2012 02:39 PMPosted by Deusmortus
i will say one thing about this post: there are many RPers out there that DO want to control the environment to make an absolute control zone over a certain area. in this case silvermoon city and one particular guild. it's not something new, and it wont be the last we see of this either. yes, i don't RP with many of their lot, but not because i don't enjoy them as individuals, i simply don't enjoy their guild politics (the way they try to run things ICLY in a city, and frankly OOCly)


To "rule" Silvermoon one must be a King or a Queen as Silvermoon is a fairly traditional monarchy in a state of upheval as the Crown Prince never had children and went insane. The officers of Kindgom of Quel'thalas are all stationed as minor figures within the government to give others a springboard and someone who's not an NPC to talk to for their own RP, none of us claim to be Monarchy. Half of the non-officers in the guild rarely actually deal with anything "politics" related. Besides, I see plenty of people claim to be Ambassadors or nobility. It's the same thing.

As one of those officers I can tell you I'm pretty open to whatever people want to do so long as it's logical. I'm supposed to be the general, so I write a lot of stories dealing with the casualties of war and shuffling around minor aides. Do I actively boss around people I don't know? No. You know why? Because that's a fairly futile gesture. RPers are going to RP whatever they want.

I don't believe I've ever seen you around, or talked with you OOCly Deusmortus. I'm not sure where all the spite is coming from :)
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
6930
I've been RPing on Shadow Council since BC, when KoQT did the exact same thing they do now. Chastidy is correct, though. They don't "rule" Silvermoon. They may be minor authority figures, but therein lies the problem; when a storyline or individual character's status places them above other people, it causes issues. I'm quite certain this is in no way intentional, but it still happens. Occasionally a sentence or phrase pops up that, to the general public, sounds like "hey, we're RPing as your superior so you -HAVE- to do what we say." I personally consider it godmodding/meta-gaming. Obviously they aren't RPing as invincible gods, but it comes across as meta-gaming when they take on gonvernment roles originally held by NPC's.

I have not RP'd with any of the current guild members, so maybe I'm way off. If I am, my apologies. But that is how the old Kingdom was, and I just decided to stop RPing because of it. I tried hanging around and simply avoiding them, but they've grown, and now it seems they're in every storyline I come across. It's nothing personal with any members of the guild, it's just the image the guild puts out there.
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85 Draenei Warrior
1640
I would dare toss this out to people, maybe people should make alts on the other side of the fence for rping. It gives people a chance to get away from things and politics. One of the things I enjoy about rping it in many ways level means nothing. This is also something that I should do at some point, but I do not know which of my toons to delete to make one horde side.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3255
I've been RPing on Shadow Council since BC, when KoQT did the exact same thing they do now. Chastidy is correct, though. They don't "rule" Silvermoon. They may be minor authority figures, but therein lies the problem; when a storyline or individual character's status places them above other people, it causes issues. I'm quite certain this is in no way intentional, but it still happens. Occasionally a sentence or phrase pops up that, to the general public, sounds like "hey, we're RPing as your superior so you -HAVE- to do what we say." I personally consider it godmodding/meta-gaming. Obviously they aren't RPing as invincible gods, but it comes across as meta-gaming when they take on gonvernment roles originally held by NPC's.

I have not RP'd with any of the current guild members, so maybe I'm way off. If I am, my apologies. But that is how the old Kingdom was, and I just decided to stop RPing because of it. I tried hanging around and simply avoiding them, but they've grown, and now it seems they're in every storyline I come across. It's nothing personal with any members of the guild, it's just the image the guild puts out there.


A lot of the issue is because there's a very big lack of OOC communication on both sides of whatever plot stories are going on. I wind up hearing a lot of things after-the-fact, of plots that I had no hand in, where things have gone wrong or people have gotten upset because someone stomped on someone elses cookies because they decided to act on something without discussing it with whoever they're RPing with. I try to avoid this as much as I can because I, and I know many of the other officers, do not like shutting people out like that. We're pretty fair and civil people if you whisper us and want to talk about stuff. It's why we're officers.

Are the officer-characters supposed to be important figures? Yes. But so are the people who decide their characters are Nobility. So are the people who's characters are supposed to be Ambassadors, or anything like that. Anyone with any sort of title is immediately putting themselves over other characters. I don't think that's the problem here.

Currently, most of the non-officer players are just "citizens", so just... Elves, or even foreigners who decided to be part of the Kingdom that is Quel'thalas. There's no politics there at all.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10115
For things regarding <Kingdom of Quel Thalas>, I would like to hear some thoughts/issues, privately. I welcome your opinions eagerly and hope I get to hear them. Please feel free to whisper me in-game or PM me on www.rp-haven.com if you use that site.

I'm an officer in Kingdom, and I'm interested in helping the roleplay community at large. I make no promises to agree with your opinions, but I promise to respectfully listen to them and bring them up with the other officers if you feel you cannot approach us yourselves for whatever reason.

For the record, we welcome OOC communication to work with others. Not everyone has to agree with us, we don't try to force ourselves on others.

I would recommend folks read the FAQ on Haven, before they make sweeping generalizations about us. The FAQ is here: http://www.rp-haven.com/forum/general_forums/TKOQ


I've been RPing on Shadow Council since BC, when KoQT did the exact same thing they do now. Chastidy is correct, though.


I do have to ask, that if you haven't RPed with us currently, how can you make that statement that we do "the exact same thing"?

I'm sad to hear you left RP all together because you did not enjoy TKOQ as a guild. I hope you are having fun elsewhere or getting to RP elsewhere!
Edited by Kharris on 5/10/2012 8:41 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
8225
Like I said before. People just make generalizations and hold grudges that color their every opinion. The people complaining about TKoQ are, quite frankly, ignorant of all facts. Other than a few personal issues with first GM, I've never had any severe trouble with them.
Hell, I sure had no trouble when Stormwind Guards and Paladins of the Church of Light were stopping random Warlock and persecuting them.
This is the world we RP in. It's not all fuzzy-wuzzy-equality. There is an order to every society. and there's not much to be done about that. Someone somewhere will always lord over another in any of a number of fashions. Is it right? Is it wrong? Who are we to decide that what occurs naturally in every facet of existence should or shouldn't be? Only two root reasons are the root of disruption of this order. A bad Leader or a malcontent unsatisfied with his/her life. The former is easy to fix. The latter is far worse as there is little recourse other than cutting them from society in order to stop them from damaging others.
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90 Goblin Death Knight
16060
The common denominator here ... elves .... >:(
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85 Troll Death Knight
4955
05/10/2012 12:42 PMPosted by Fáye
From what I can see you didn't go through any of the proper channels available to you to voice your grievances or concerns and you just worked yourself up into a huff and decided to say, "WELL SCREW THEM ALL!" Hey, if that's how it is, so be it. But the need to throw people under the bus and blame them for everything is very childish to me as well as unnecessary. If you're leaving anyway why be so spiteful before you go? It's pointless. But I guess that says volumes about your personal character - at least it does to me anyway.


For the record, Faye, going through "the proper channels" is every bit as futile and pointless as this thread has been. Trust me, I know, speaking from experience.

05/11/2012 10:12 PMPosted by Yoshimitsu
The common denominator here ... elves .... >:(


Heh; the funny thing is? Yeah, it's pretty much that. Before I left, any non-elf RP was either being (a) discouraged or (b) ignored. It's not blood elf RP though, I've played on other servers with people who don't go out of their way to squash RP they don't like. It's just certain people on Shadow Council. They just happen to play elves.

I'm long gone from RP on the server. I can't really argue when people say that ShC isn't a good place for RP, I've seen what those influential people do if you don't siddown, shut up and play their game, their way. It's not a guild, it's not the website Haven, it's the people who lie (out of character), godmode, metagame and bully other people. Kharris, you know exactly who I mean. Don't feign ignorance or blindness, I know people have sent you messages detailing exactly who and what.

Now, I make it a personal rule never to whine and complain without offering a solution. Unfortunately, the solution here's a painful one. Amputate. I honestly see the RP community on ShC on par with a gangrenous limb. The infection's deep and it's been killing the body for a while now. Crack down on the people who lie OOC, the metagamers, the godmoders and bullies (for the record, by bullies I don't just mean people who say mean things, I mean people who are outright manipulative emotionally, people who will involve themselves in a plot and then stall things deliberately because they don't like the other people involved, and other fun things). Don't just ignore it or punish the people who try to speak up against it (and yes, I've seen specific examples where people who raised discreet objections OOC were punished). I personally have no hope that it's going to change or get better, so I GTFO'd. I wanna have fun with my $15/month. Now I do.
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Alright, now that this topic has been beaten to a pulp, I believe the words from all sides have been well presented. The people who have had problems have found a way to find fun in the game somewhere else or have gotten over it, while the people who were being pointed at have heard the words of those who felt wronged and have opened their arms in welcome to conversations to make things better for all players. We have learned that personalities can clash, and we have learned of those people who are still respectful even when clashed with others.

I am glad people gave their honest opinions, criticism, debates, and defenses because now we all can get a better sense of what people are feeling and how we can handle it. There is nothing wrong with RP on the Horde side, only some players not meshing well with other players; the proper solution is to talk in private with those people problems arise in and either come to a mutual understanding or go separate ways and ignore each other.

There is no one person/guild trying to control everything going on in roleplay, only a story and character design that can be played with or completely ignored.

I am glad that is settled and everyone has learned something, but it is honestly time to move on.
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85 Troll Death Knight
4955
05/12/2012 10:47 AMPosted by Dimetri
There is nothing wrong with RP on the Horde side, only some players not meshing well with other players; the proper solution is to talk in private with those people problems arise in and either come to a mutual understanding or go separate ways and ignore each other.


I like you. You're silly. I've just got this image in my mind of you sitting at your computer with your hands over your eyes, saying "Yay! I don't see any more problems!"
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83 Tauren Shaman
7945

There is nothing wrong with RP on the Horde side, only some players not meshing well with other players; the proper solution is to talk in private with those people problems arise in and either come to a mutual understanding or go separate ways and ignore each other.

There is no one person/guild trying to control everything going on in roleplay, only a story and character design that can be played with or completely ignored.


No, there IS a problem with H-side RP, and there ARE people who do try and control things in roleplay. We've lost an event and an ENTIRE GUILD because of the problems going on and how they are being largely ignored. A whole group of people decided that they would rather pay 25 dollars per character than stay and RP on ShC. I know I said to keep this private, and I'm breaking my own rule here, but when someone comes in and arbitrarily says, "Yeah, nothing wrong here, conversation over," I have to stand and be heard, especially when I disagree.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12135
The great irony here is that no one is innocent. The same people I see here trying to point fingers at people for poisoning the RP on the realm are the same people I've sat in vent with and listened to them sprout unabashed hate for someone's RP, and talk about flat out running said people off the server if they could, because they could not accept that said people were considered 'good RPers' or 'popular'.

No one here is a victim. This isn't grade school recess. There's no teachers here people can run to to tell that they're being picked on or that so-and-so won't let them in their game of tag. We should all be adults, or near enough to where you can understand for yourself.

This is a game. Not everyone plays the game the same way. The same applies to RP. It's much less a 'clique' in the sense people seem to throw the term around. Groups of like-minded players gravitate towards one another. Period. Happens with guilds, happens with PvP, happens with RP. People have different tastes in RP, different styles. Those who enjoy each others' tend to hang around each other more.
If you don't like how someone RP's, if someone rubs you the wrong way OOCly due to their RP or due to how you feel they behave even OOCly, do not play with them. Everyone is equally entitled to enjoy their $15 a month. It's well within your right to make that choice and not RP with someone or any number of someones.

All of the name-calling and blame-gaming is not a solution, it's not even part of a solution. People need to focus on playing the game how they enjoy it instead of worrying how everyone else chooses to play. No one here is a victim, every single one of us is afforded the same choices of who we choose to play with.
Edited by Kantele on 5/12/2012 7:53 PM PDT
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I haven't ever dealt with any great amount of prejudice on the server. The few times people tried to flame me, the ones who know me for who I am have stood up for me. I don't want anyone to think that by my commentary I am trying to judge or degrade the community as a whole because there are many wonderful, creative people.

There are however those few who hide in the shadows (many of them can not even rp in the game anymore because their rp has become so unbelievable.) Some toil in seclusion, but occasionally serious problems leak into the populace. It is a sad, but true fact that there are people who rp who think not only is erp the only rp that exists, but that it has to be... degrading at best. Personally I am grateful for those who do not have details to many of the events referenced within this thread. Not for personal reasons, but because it's already hurt enough people and doesn't need to be rehashed.

I think the most important thing for people to remember is that the person behind the Character, most likely, is nothing like that character. Many RPers have great diversity in the personalities, actions, ethics and ideosyncrasies of said characters. Don't judge someone as a person when you only know them ICly.

I suppose what I think ShC's biggest problem are judgement, IC conflict which is fueled by OOC issues, and all the people feeding the trolls and essentially sitting on the sidelines yelling 'Fight! Fight! Fight!'. Don't take rumors at face value. Don't judge people you don't know. Don't use an OOC issue you might have with someone and use RP as a place to 'get back' at them, flame them or anything else. It's highly inappropriate and a few months ago it was actions like that which caused great amounts of strife within what was a very good guild. Many people were hurt, it fractured the guild and many people that had done nothing wrong, never mistreated others and had nothing to do with the person who fueled the situation were punished literally and socially by other players who had no cause to, other than rumors or conjecture. When we do this, we damage our own community. And in the last few years on Horde side, I've seen this happen so many times that what was once a thriving RP community has now turned to a virtual ghost town with many of the serious RPers hiding out in remote corners of Azeroth simply so they don't have to worry of potentially running into any of the many trolls who are all over Silvermoon, Orgrimmar and many other highly populated areas of the server.

05/09/2012 05:36 AMPosted by Dimetri
Please, don't generalize the whole community on a few bad experiences.
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Kantele brings up several good points as well. No one is blameless. But, we need to get over that, and move on. Act like adults and instead of worrying about other people, or flaming. Remember that it's just a game, and it's supposed to be fun. So if you're not having fun, change things so you are. If you're unhappy doing what you're doing or unhappy with the people you're around. Then do something else, roll an alt, make new friends. Be proactive within the community instead of counter-active.

And cliche or not, treat others as you wish to be treated. A little kindness can go a long way.
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