Topic Pointers on H Yor'sahj
Almost killed him last night on one attempt with ~4% or less health left but we wiped. Other than that I know I made some dumb mistakes calling out the wrong ooze but once i fixed that after the first mess up or two we had barely any issues. I did hear my shaman healer say "Pft I dont even have grps on im just healing people" when I had specifically put him on the 2nd grp in the raid for Deep Corruption healing.
Also I realize some of our DPS is low, Ive handled the people in my guild who were not performs correctly but the rest were pugs (not much control there).
Thanks in advance!
Here is the link to our logs.
Edited by Jakethetank on 5/11/12 9:18 AM (PDT)
We use the curse addon
That should help with killing the right oozes and stacking or spreading.
I would recommend solo tanking fight. With the 20% nerf and proper tank cd rotation its is not that big a deal to solo tank...for any tank...especially DKs
I would also recomend 3 healing until you get comfortable with the healing on that fight. If your 2 healing and they are comfortable with purple even better.
From wowhead, a list of all heals that adda stack of deep corruption when purple is out
On the first mana void, have someone bring the void to 20% then use healing cds to survive without mana until next mana void. Then when 2nd void comes out...destroy first to get mana back. Use a DK to pull the void into group before you blow it up to ensure heals gets mana back. Continue this throughout fight.
If your can kill ooze before or right at edge of water..leave your lowest dps on boss the whole time to ensure your dps beats the enrage. If you are hitting enrage and your having to put all your dps on the oozes to ensure they die before they hit boss..replace your lowest dps.
This fight is more about your heals being comfortable healing purple and dealing with mana void than anything
When you have a double set of adds..and some still up when next ooze comes out...have EVERYONE run to ooze..to ensure all stacked to cleave remaining adds down if any are left.
Instead of wasting healing CDs on a blue phase, it's almost definitely better to just use all mana cooldowns (so for his group: spriest hymn of hope, mana tide, healing priest's hymn of hope if needed) for the first void and save your healing CDs in case you get black yellow red right after that.
3 healing also isn't usually a good suggestion, as it just adds to overhealing in purple phases and inadvertently blowing people up. The only time you should 3 heal is if your 2 healers just can't keep up with black/yellow/red. If they can keep everyone up just fine through that, then 3 healing will just cause more harm than good.
As a tank, don't be afraid to use a resistance elixir instead of a flask for this fight, that will help your healers immensely on purple phases. You can/probably should also use the TB trinket. I have no idea when to hit it, I would assume around 4 stacks maybe? I don't really know, so play around with that. It's a 1 minute cooldown so it'll be up for every "phase".
Edited by Jakethetank on 5/11/12 10:03 AM (PDT)
yep yep...by healing cds i meant "mana cds" lol
the black yellow red combo seemed to come up for us alot when we first started doing that fight...we used BL for the first and just hurt us too much when we didnt have it.
*A trick for when red is up is stack close and tight..inside his hit box...almost at center..it helps if your barely healing that phase
So thats y i said 3 heals, really only for then
But your right 2 healing is optimal
and for your tank if he uses Prismatic Elixir combined with ... Mirror of Broken Images its silly easy
One thing about all the ds heroic bosses at least the ones i have done so far, only 3 i know, is that once you down them...they move instantly to farm status.
We used to 3-heal and solo tank. We stopping running DS a month or two ago, so our strat was developed back around the 5-10% nerf range when black/yellow/red used to hit pretty hard.
Definitely use one of the add-ons for calling the ooze - it also puts up a nice big arrow which actually helps. I think the one I use is YorsahjAnnounce; be sure to modify it via the UI for your preferred ooze combos.
You can fiddle the ooze combos depending on the strengths/weaknesses of the group. The mana orb trick is helpful and we used it as well. Another thing we did on black/yellow was to have everybody hang out a few seconds longer to finish the 2nd wave of adds before getting on the ooze.
Edited by Kalmia on 5/11/12 10:58 AM (PDT)
When we do our 10m alt runs, we one tank/two heal Yor'sahj. We've found it's best to have one strong single target healer and one strong raid healer. We usually run with a holy pally or resto shaman for the tank and a resto druid (me) for the raid. Last weekend we had the resto combo.
During purple phases, the shaman/pally heals ONLY the tank, and the druid heals the rest of the raid.
We also do not use heroism during the stoplight combo (red, yellow, green, black - kill green). We leave the last set of adds up until the next oozes. If black is in that combo, we kill it. If it's not, we follow the announcement addon. After the proper ooze has been killed, we restack, blow hero, and finish off the remaining adds. We do this in both our 25m main raid, and our 10m alt raid. Our healers are more than capable of keeping everyone up through the add damage while they kill an ooze.
If your healers use Grid (or Vuhdo or Healbot I think) have them set up Deep Corruption as a debuff on their Grid so that they can see how many stacks people have. Assign one of your healers to heal only the tank(s) during purple and your other healer to handle the raid. Single target big heals on your tank and raid during purple. We don't heal past 3 stacks (even though you can go to 4) on the off-chance that someone does something that gives a stack. If your shaman doesn't have something that tells him when it's safe to heal, then either have a stern chat with him or replace him. This is definitely a fight that's on the healers so he needs to be paying attention. Good luck!
Edited by Tiesha on 5/11/12 12:23 PM (PDT)
Really the fight is all about cooldown management and calling out what cooldowns you have so you can be ready. On any combo that has Red + Black you need to use some kind of cooldown to get through it. This can be a hymn, spirit link, spiritwalker, tank cooldown, ect. Rotate cooldowns and always try to keep one in reserve.
I killed this pre-nerf using a priest/pally combo. One thing we would do is when we had to deal with Red, Black, Yellow, Green (killed) was that we rotated healer cooldowns but saved a tank cooldown. That way on the next combo we had at least one raid cooldown available. If you can go into the ooze combo after RBYG with everyone alive, topped off, and no adds alive you are ready to get a kill. It is that simple.
One thing I am wondering is what Ooze combinations you are using? It seems to me that you are not killing black at all. Looking at your best attempts I'm showing that you are killing Red a lot and I'm struggling to wonder why this is the case. Red does hardly any damage if you stand under the boss. I would rather kill Black and get rid of the adds that do damage and wastes dps than kill red that only does damage if you are standing in the right spot and doesn't waste dps time on the boss.
Another thing I noticed was that people died a lot too those adds. You have 2 pallies in your raid. Make sure that they use their bubbles on ppl who are taking a lot of damage. In fact after looking at your logs it seems that everyone is dieing to the adds. If that's the case then why bother dealing with the adds to begin with? Here's the combo's that we use (I just copied and pasted from our website).
Purple, Green, Blue, Black
Keep in mind this is our pre-nerf strat but regardless it will help you optimize dps on the boss and cut down on raid damage.
We never killed red at all, we usually had a combo with Blue Black and Purple where we killed either green or yellow. And then sometimes we had Red yellow Black. All of the suggestions you've given me I've already been using, Im solo tanking, 2 healing, have resist trinkets, saving CDs for specific combos, killing mana void down to 30% or so then waiting yada yada yada...
I was more or less looking for what someone could find that is going wrong in our logs aside some of the weak DPS.
We have 2 people DPS the boss the entire time when oozes pop up because we have more than enough to get them down. I think our healing combo isnt great (Holy priest/ resto sham) but managable if my resto sham would get his head out of his !@# sometimes...
thanks any way guys
From looking over your death log:
Some people aren't stacking well enough for reds
Some people aren't spread out enough for greens
Healers are crosshealing during purples
There is no minimum range for Yor'sahj, so even hunters can stand directly under him. I'm also seeing your players take about 10k more damage on average from Digestive Acid than mine do, and the acid does more damage on 25m than 10m. You also have people taking more Searing Blood damage than mine do; some up to 100k. Make sure your healers are sticking to their assignments for purple phases. You really have to drill into their heads that "helping" their partner heal isn't helpful.
For example: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/5ugplfnlr9yv8nms/xe/?s=6430&e=6473&x=spell+%3D+%22Deep+Corruption%22%0D%0AOR+targetName+%3D+%22Ysosrs%22%0D%0AAND+fullType+%3D+SPELL_HEAL
On this particular attempt, your priest blew you up by healing you with a Holy Word: Serenity in the middle of a purple phase. Granted your shaman should have been watching your stacks and not pushed you past four, but your priest giving you a stack in the first place is the bigger problem, imo.
TL;DR: your raid isn't very good at standing in the right spots, and your healers need to learn to stick to their assignments.
From looking over your death log:
had my priest assigned to my grp and the shaman to the other, i got the list of spells that add stacks from wowhead but it seems to not be complete. there are spells that arent on there that cause stacks apparently.
Your healers are lying then. I haven't looked at the specific list in question, but the fight has been out for a long time and has been done many many many times, it is well documented what causes stacks and what doesn't. You can look at the logs and figure out exactly what the healers did to cause someone to blow up, and I'd be willing to bet every heal in there that added a stack is on the list.
That's not a very good way to split healing on purples, imo. If you assigned the priest to your group, and only one of the five heals that blew you up was from said priest, the shaman basically kept you from getting gibbed. Yes, your healers shouldn't be crosshealing, but having the tank healer also focusing on four other people will lead to your death during a purple once the healers are actually sticking to their assignments. Have one healer on the tank, and the other healer on the other nine people in the raid. I'd put the shaman on the tank and the priest on the raid. Make sure they are only using large, single target heals. I use Healing Touch and Regrowth when I heal the raid. If you ever have a holy pally, beacon + a pet to heal is amazing for tank healing purples. Hunter tanking type pets (tenacity?) are best for this.
Also, I'm going to have to agree with Drimza. Your healers are either lying to cover their asses, uninformed as to which spells are actually on the list, OR you have people using Healthstones during purples.
Edited by Sherbear on 5/12/12 2:13 PM (PDT)
Green, Red, Yellow, Black
We always kill yellow on this combo. As long as folks stand where they're supposed to... (Melee stack and ranged stand as close to the boss as possible while staying 4 yds apart) the damage is minimal.
2 healing is highly suggested. During purple phase, I heal the raid and the shaman watches the tank. Easy as pie.... or cake, whichever you prefer. Healers need to stick to whatever assignments are doled out. Healers that don't are terrible team players.
As do I. I also noticed that, per Vuhdo, my initial rejuvs do not cause stacks, but subsequent rejuvs do. Not sure if it's a bug with Vuhdo or not.
Edited by Drimza on 5/13/12 12:38 AM (PDT)
Leaving red + green is up really is not advisable imo. Yes it can work, and maybe for some groups it's somehow easier, but I feel like it's almost always going to be more trouble than it's worth. I would much rather just have everyone stack under his balls than have to worry about that 1 person standing too close and splashing all the melee with green, or that hunter that still thinks there's a minimum range on Yor'sahj so he stand way the hell out and dies to red, or whatever else. But, different strokes
What you're probably seeing is that your first heal of any kind doesn't appear to give a stack, since at least on my Vuhdo the stacks are tracked in the same icon that tracks the timer. So when the icon first comes up, everyone has 0 stacks. When you heal someone, they'll have 1 but since it's tracked in the same icon and since it doesn't put a number up for the 1st stack, it just looks like that didn't give a stack.
Not sure if that made sense, and maybe yours is set up differently somehow so that that doesn't happen, but that's what happens for me.
No it made perfect sense :) Thanks!
Edited by Pogo on 5/15/12 9:53 PM (PDT)
I just killed H Yor'sahj for the first time tonight.
A few tricks we learned that make the fight easier.
First, 2 heal. When we were 3-healing, healers were standing around doing nothing, especially when purple and blue are up. When 2-healing, they had just enough to do. We didn't need the extra DPS necessarily (we were way ahead of the enrage timer with or without 7 DPSers), but it did mean one or two fewer ooze combos to deal with.
Second, get blue ooze a lot. Blue does no damage, and once you learn how to deal with blue (mana cooldowns on first one, and chain kill them to minimize time for no mana) it makes the fight super easy.
Third, get purple ooze a lot. Like blue, it does no damage. And like blue, once your healers learn how to deal with the purple mechanic, it's very easy.
Fourth, stack for red, spread for green, etc.
Fifth, if you hunter loses his electricity, you're gonna have a bad time.
Getting lots of blue/purple/other/other combos makes the fight pretty easy once you hammer down those two mechanics.
EDIT: Not sure what the enrage timer is exactly, but our kill took 7 minutes and 1 second.
Our comp was:
2 Ret paladin.
Some sort of warlock, forgot his spec...
One of the ret paladins was one of our healers, and in a perfect world, we would've had shaman or priest switch, but neither has a decent DPS spec right now. Maybe next week.
Also, we learned that enraged regen from Bear druids don't add stacks during purple, and if you need to blow up purple, Rallying Cry can be of use...