Terrible Mobility.

90 Orc Death Knight
8960
I was on this forum when i first got geared on my warrior and i was enjoying him, I saw all these threads about warriors being bad in pvp and i thought to myself what a bunch of whiners there fine. but as i actually started playing competitively i noticed that they are pretty bad. they have no mobilty they can bearly slow from a range and they just get blown up. i sword and board but i just cant seem to do anything even with rallying cry enraged regen and shield wall up i am still losing health. am i doing something wrong or what? any help is appreciated
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Welcome to Warrior, DK. Enjoy your brief stay until in full Cata gear, you continue to get destroyed enough to quit the game or reroll.
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85 Human Paladin
4375
As long as you know the classes you are fighting there shouldnt be a reason you are being kited so badly and losing. On my warrior I have no problems unless its a skilled frostmage. Learn class counters better and dont blow your cooldowns to be a cool guy. Counter a counter, its how the game is played. Mage frost novas you, spell refelct the deep freeze, hunter kites you switch to defensive stance until you can get close. retalliation rogues and keep your self heals for when you are 50%. Ferals are hard as hell when they know what they are doing but its still possible. Shadow priest need to be bursted down asap before they get stacks on you. Other skilled warriors are just RNG based and DK's just disarm and blow cooldowns, they're weak against melee anways. Warlocks are cake, so I wont go there. Just watch some imformative pvp videos and it should help you out a bit if you dont know how to counter situations you're having trouble with.
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90 Worgen Warrior
12155
I thought this was a warrior melee forum. What are the plate caster wanna be melee doing posting here?
Edited by Bevoshorns on 5/27/2012 12:16 AM PDT
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Shun the overpowered Ret Paladin! SHUN HIM!
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85 Orc Warrior
10690
Blessing of freedom makes me cry so much.
Edited by Furyrzmmdx on 5/27/2012 1:57 AM PDT
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It's not so much Blessing of Freedom by itself that makes me cry. It's the 70% slow applied by the constantly stunning rogue behind me that makes me cry.
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90 Undead Warrior
7390
Warriors have GREAT mobility. Charge is on a 13 second CD, that's shorter than it's ever been except during the first two weeks of season 6 when we could spec/glyph it to like 10 or 11, that was quickly nerfed because we still had intercept then.

You have intervene as well, then heroic leap (which could use an extra 15 seconds shaved off it's CD but no biggie) both of which can be used offensively AND defensively depending on team positioning.

Another thing a lot of warriors forget about is improved hamstring / bladestorm / throwdown all contribute indirectly to our mobility, they allow us to stick to targets. The only truly valid complaint here is that hamstring eats up too many of our globals ever since they nerfed the duration from 15 to 8 seconds for no reason. I think that all the snares in the game need to be the same strength because otherwise it's a pretty ridiculous and frustrating system.

But no, our mobility is still very good. We can swap a lot when we need to. I think what you're experiencing is a sort of over-arcing design issue with this entire expansion, and that is the amount of instant CCs that are flying out all over the place that shut you down. MoP is cutting back on that stuff though.
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90 Undead Warrior
7390
05/26/2012 09:31 PMPosted by Spartàn
As long as you know the classes you are fighting there shouldnt be a reason you are being kited so badly and losing. On my warrior I have no problems unless its a skilled frostmage. Learn class counters better and dont blow your cooldowns to be a cool guy. Counter a counter, its how the game is played. Mage frost novas you, spell refelct the deep freeze, hunter kites you switch to defensive stance until you can get close. retalliation rogues and keep your self heals for when you are 50%. Ferals are hard as hell when they know what they are doing but its still possible. Shadow priest need to be bursted down asap before they get stacks on you. Other skilled warriors are just RNG based and DK's just disarm and blow cooldowns, they're weak against melee anways. Warlocks are cake, so I wont go there. Just watch some imformative pvp videos and it should help you out a bit if you dont know how to counter situations you're having trouble with.


I hope you're not talking about duels, warriors suck in duels... which is okay cause 1v1 isn't balanced anyways. I mean I still beat baddies all the time but anyone whose of equal skill level at just about any other class minus a couple of the casters should win every time against me in theory.
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90 Night Elf Warrior
6560
Our mobility is good when we have a Paladin on an arena team giving us Blessing of Freedom or a rogue/frost DK taking care of the snaring for us.

As an individual our mobility is questionable and depends on who we are fighting. Is it a priest or a warlock? Our mobility is ok. Is it a hunter or mage? Our mobility is not so great.

Charge is very powerful and is the reason why we don't have an auto applied snare because if we did no one would ever get away from us. Intervene is very useful in arena because you can always use that instead of Charge if your target is near an ally however for most its use is clunky - in Mists this will change since Stance Dancing is deleted.

Bladestorm for me is just strange design. Its a DPS skill disguised as a mobility talent. The only time I ever see it used as an actual damage ability is during Reck otherwise its strictly a "get out of roots" card that gets cancelled anyway via cancel aura macro. I'd almost prefer they take the damage component out of Blade storm, rename the skill to Blessing of Freedom, and lower the cooldown because for the most part that is what we use it for.

Honestly that is probably what Avatar will end up being in Mists - to combat snares and roots vs an actual damage ability.

Overall I'd say our mobility is not that great, not horrible, but hardly enough and compared to rogues, druids, DKs we have it the "worst".
Edited by Nohman on 5/27/2012 7:04 AM PDT
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90 Undead Warrior
7390
Our mobility is good when we have a Paladin on an arena team giving us Blessing of Freedom or a rogue/frost DK taking care of the snaring for us.

As an individual our mobility is questionable and depends on who we are fighting. Is it a priest or a warlock? Our mobility is ok. Is it a hunter or mage? Our mobility is not so great.

Charge is very powerful and is the reason why we don't have an auto applied snare because if we did no one would ever get away from us. Intervene is very useful in arena because you can always use that instead of Charge if your target is near an ally however for most its use is clunky - in Mists this will change since Stance Dancing is deleted.

Bladestorm for me is just strange design. Its a DPS skill disguised as a mobility talent. The only time I ever see it used as an actual damage ability is during Reck otherwise its strictly a "get out of roots" card that gets cancelled anyway via cancel aura macro. I'd almost prefer they take the damage component out of Blade storm, rename the skill to Blessing of Freedom, and lower the cooldown because for the most part that is what we use it for.

Honestly that is probably what Avatar will end up being in Mists - to combat snares and roots vs an actual damage ability.

Overall I'd say our mobility is not that great, not horrible, but hardly enough and compared to rogues, druids, DKs we have it the "worst".


I don't even play with paladins man and I still think warr mobility is great, I mean I'm with a ret now for points and T2 but he's using those on himself or our priest so he can get fears off. Warriors have enough mobility to create a lot of pressure as WLS for example, zipping around the field to whatever is in range and has dots on it. Our mobility is fine on hunters because we have throwdown / storm to stick to them during a master's call and when that's down we can root them and stand on their face. If they disengage out of position then you can run to the nearest pillar, get a lifegrip, or intervene, then swap to their teammate to pressure them back in for the next charge cooldown.

Intervening traps is a very useful defensive mobility tool as well, it's not the intervene that eats the trap since it only takes physicals, it's just the mobility that gets us there so we can stand on it.

The problem with bladestorm is that it was designed for a different time in WoW history, and now it feels kind of awkward. That doesn't mean it has no use though, if they buffed the damage it would be way too strong with the current recklessness model. I kind of like that it makes you choose, do you want to storm this CC or are you saving it for a reck setup? I think it needs a shorter base cooldown now that it isn't a super powerful burst skill though.

As far as mages, we CRUSH frost mages in arena it's ridiculous. Can't really stick to fire at all more than a couple of short bursts but what melee can? Blazing speed is nuts and with impact/dbreath on short cooldown anyone who gets close to them is going to have a hard time staying there, not just warriors.

Charging a frost mage into an imp ham with deadly calm means he'll have to blink into a heroic leap throwdown (assuming your team is throwing some kind of CC @ his healer during this), suddenly you've forced his iceblock in the first 10 seconds of the match. If he's playing RMP the rogue could potentially peel this, but there are a couple of safer work around strats if they're tunneling the warrior anyways.
Edited by Babypuke on 5/27/2012 7:32 AM PDT
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90 Night Elf Warrior
6560
I'd also like to mention Hamstring is crap. I wouldn't mind it as much if other melee classes didn't have it auto applied. There is zero advantage to it being separate as Hamstring is. Nothing. The only reason its like that is because of Charge. This is part of what holds us back IMO.

Not saying it should be auto applied per say as there would need to be balance changes notably what to do with Piercing Howl. It would be too much. All I'm saying is we are hard mode while everyone else is easy mode.

Improved Hamstring is alright but its becoming Staggering Shout in Mists and should work with other class slows.
Edited by Nohman on 5/27/2012 9:05 AM PDT
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90 Human Warrior
16705
Our damage and mobility are fine. Our survivability is not fine. In any situation you're forced to go sword and board, in most cases it's good game.
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90 Night Elf Warrior
6560
In Mists Die by the Sword is basically our defensive cooldown. 8 seconds, 20% damage reduction, 2 min cooldown.

Our survivability is low because heavy armor does nothing for you in PVP. The classes that don't have heavy armor have magic shields and other nifty tricks that offset wearing cloth/leather. When the majority of class ignore armor via magic damage or bleeds (druids) it diminishes armor greatly. This also hurts DKs too though their self healing is far better then ours. At least to me doesn't seem to affect Paladins much thanks to WOG. I'd be nice if armor played more of a role in PVP then it does now for us defensively. I realize Colossus Smash does offensively.

It's the same in Mists right now. Your health drops drastically, fast. Only thing keeping us alive is the new Second Wind which will most likely be nerfed.

I don't mind the armor issue much. I'd much rather have a little bit more mobility. We can't have it all.
Edited by Nohman on 5/27/2012 9:23 AM PDT
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90 Undead Warrior
7390
All I'm saying is we are hard mode while everyone else is easy mode.


LOL'D.

I'm not sure that warriors were ever easier to master than they are now. By that I mean the amount of skill it takes to play a warrior at it's maximum capacity. Just because our class isn't ridic strong like rogues (lol 1 min sdance) are doesn't mean warriors are hard, don't get those concepts confused. It just means there may be situations where you have basically no options available to you to pull your team up to a win. That's why I get super involved with my team's strategy and try to figure out what we can all do as a team to win after we've lost, because I can't be "good" at warrior anymore since there's not much to be good at per se but I can be good at arena.

IDK if you played wrath but warriors had a much higher skillcap then, yes they were also more viable but the two don't have to be directly related.

Heavy armor isn't the only culprit but yeah, Blizzard didn't really think that one through, armor doesn't translate well to PvP. During BC arenas armor made a pretty big difference, not so much afterwards. When they nerfed shield block to alter PvE prot balance they hurt arms, getting rid of unrelenting assault took away our ability to cut a caster's damage in half, nerfing spell reflect was another no-no. DBTS is a pretty awesome cooldown so far in MoP beta, it's basically just deterrence but it's a step in the right direction since we can use it without going sword n' board.
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70 Troll Rogue
1060
05/26/2012 09:31 PMPosted by Spartàn
As long as you know the classes you are fighting there shouldnt be a reason you are being kited so badly and losing. On my warrior I have no problems unless its a skilled frostmage. Learn class counters better and dont blow your cooldowns to be a cool guy. Counter a counter, its how the game is played. Mage frost novas you, spell refelct the deep freeze, hunter kites you switch to defensive stance until you can get close. retalliation rogues and keep your self heals for when you are 50%. Ferals are hard as hell when they know what they are doing but its still possible. Shadow priest need to be bursted down asap before they get stacks on you. Other skilled warriors are just RNG based and DK's just disarm and blow cooldowns, they're weak against melee anways. Warlocks are cake, so I wont go there. Just watch some imformative pvp videos and it should help you out a bit if you dont know how to counter situations you're having trouble with.


Ah, it's you again. Please stop trying to give advice. Unless you're playing a real derp, you'll never get close without charging.
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90 Night Elf Warrior
6560
Na what I meant was in terms of snares we are hard mode. Most other melee classes have it easy since its auto applied, half the time you don't even need to think about it, it just happens on its own. Paladins of course are the exception to the rule.

Rogues and druids, to me, are far more technical. We are a very basic "barbaric" class. Not a lot of utility, we bring mostly pressure to the table.

I played warriors as far back as Classic but was never my main until Cata. What I miss are skills like Unrelenting Assault that were more interesting then what we have today.
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