Delaying Raiding in MoP

100 Worgen Druid
17900
I would like this to happen.

Would reduce some stress.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
0


The race will be the same for those guilds it will just be them having their "main" toons even better prepared and more alt raids the first week so they can spread out the gear to as many "mains" as possible.


Yeah but whats the point of gating it anyway for the people who want to "see the content?" What about the people who don't care about all the other crap they put in the expansion?

People need to regulate their own time and let others play how they want to. I don't need a Blizzard to tell me how to manage my time.

And frankly, why do you think others are deserving to be on the same level as the people willing to put their entire life on hold for the game? The race isn't just about skill, skill is only a small percentage of what it takes to race with the big boys. Determination, will to win, and time investment are massive factors at the highest level of any competition. It holds true in video games too.


That's why most people are suggesting a week or two. It's not really long enough to inconenvience anyone.

I very much doubt this would have too big an impact on world firsts. It's not really about evening it out. The point is to slow it down for people who may not necesarily want to miss out on other content, to enjoy raiding competitively. But not too slow so as to annoy people who only raid.

06/07/2012 10:02 PMPosted by Jorahlol
And frankly, why do you think others are deserving to be on the same level as the people willing to put their entire life on hold for the game? The race isn't just about skill, skill is only a small percentage of what it takes to race with the big boys. Determination, will to win, and time investment are massive factors at the highest level of any competition. It holds true in video games too.


Yes, but how big an advantage should you get for having a 9-5 job, when someone else happens to be working double shifts that week?

It's not really a matter of determination, skill or time management at that point,but luck, if you're at a level where you're not willing to plan your life around the game.

If someone has the determination, and skill, shouldn't outside factors be mitigated?

06/07/2012 10:02 PMPosted by Jorahlol
I don't need a Blizzard to tell me how to manage my time.

Some people do. There's been more than a few guilds burn out- especially during T11 and ulduar. They couldn't handle the pace.
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100 Troll Druid
14815
06/07/2012 09:38 AMPosted by Hudiddytoo
It seems to me the major argument for gated content is to do other content. I would agree with gated content if the content you wanted to do instead had an expiration date. But since I can do pet battles/scenarios/bgs, for at least 2 years (the average life span of an expansion,) I see no reason to delay raids simply to allow players to do something else that will be available for years.
There is an expiration date on "preparing for raid," which would be whenever the first raid night is.
If it's the second day of the expansion, that means I have to hit 90, level professions, farm consumables, and spam heroics all day and night to be prepared in 2 days. Doing it afterwards or later on has no use.

I would honestly prefer to see raids pushed back 2-3 weeks. Giving proper time to fully prepare for raiding would be really quite nice.
Edited by Melenkor on 6/7/2012 10:49 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Priest
0
06/07/2012 10:38 PMPosted by Jorahlol
Rofl, its so ironic how the regulars on this forum want a casual friendly game when it benefits them.


Yeah, it's called wanting a better game. I've never supported stupid time sinks (like farming potions/flasks during vanilla/Kara).

More casual things can benefit the game. So can more hardcore elements. it's better being in balance.

Making everything so difficult that only paragon could kill it would be hardcore, and bad gameplay. Making it so easy everyone can kill it is stupid too. If you can't see the disctintion, i can't help you.

And fwiw, i don't support things because they benefit me (see: DS nerfs, or a billion other things). It's about good/bad gameplay. Although yes, it would benefit me. (in this case you happen to be wrong, but expecting people not to post about what would benefit them is stupid).

06/07/2012 10:38 PMPosted by Jorahlol
Outside factors shouldn't matter at all in whats happening in a video game. That's stupid. Wheres the personal responsibility? I have a career, I drink with friends, why should Blizzard plan in-game events around my schedule?


Why is it stupid?

If they can, why *not* plan it around your schedule? How in any way is that a bad thing. the only reason it's even a question (or hard), is because you can't balance around 11million schedules simulaneously.

If it were at all feasible, yeah, the expansion release would happen on our schedule.That's not possible.So why not get as close as possible?

Why the hell should me being a plumber/lawyer have an effect on ingame, over how good i game inside the game (which includes time management *inside the game)? That's as bad as play to win. Why not just see who's willing to throw thousands of dollars at clearing MoP?

For me, that's not what the game is about. Your achievements/rewards should be based on your in game activity. End of story. Even playing (as close as possible).

You can't always make it fair. But if we can, why not?

06/07/2012 10:38 PMPosted by Jorahlol
As far as people getting burned out on the game? Well thats their own fault. Maybe losing a couple weeks pay to kill video game dragons doesn't look so appealing when you're living off of ramen noodles and cigarettes for the next month.


What does getting burned out have to do with their job? Burned out (tl;dr version) means you play so much, you eventually can't handle it, and the game starts to suck.
Edited by Arianity on 6/8/2012 12:08 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Priest
0
Thats pretty much my point you can't balance a game around 11 million people's schedule.

I don't like a lot of the time sinks either, but I see gating in a different way. Its more of an absolute rather than a choice.

If you play 24/7 you run the risk of burn out. If you can't learn to space out your gaming sessions its no ones fault but that person, and some people actually enjoy the rush of playing 24/7 then getting burned out and taking a break for a while. Its not my style, but I'm not going to tell anyone what to do with their time.

And also, I'd say its less fair to the people who don't want the gating. We're kinda going in circles now though, so I'll end by saying, if they do gate raiding by a few weeks. Its not a big deal to me, but I don't think its fair. Thats just my opinion.


I guess that was kind of my point as well. How many people wouldn't actually want gating? There's quite a few hardcore players posting they would.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was one of those things that everyone wants, but isn't willing to force on themselves, like turning off the ICC buff. Taking advantage of something doesnt necesarily mean you want to, if you feel obligated.
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100 Night Elf Hunter
11775
So those of us who have zero interest in scenarios, pet battles, proving grounds and BGs will do nothing for 4-5 weeks?

The raids need to launch when the game launches. Those of you who want to can wait the time and not raid.
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89 Human Warrior
12475
This is just plain silly.

Stop it.
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100 Troll Druid
14815
So those of us who have zero interest in scenarios, pet battles, proving grounds and BGs will do nothing for 4-5 weeks?

The raids need to launch when the game launches. Those of you who want to can wait the time and not raid.
Nothing to do? You could gear up, grind professions, and finely tune your character to prepare for raids. Plus the time you spend doing dailies will get you elder tokens which will be used to get gear and bonus rolls. There would be a massive difference between having essentially no time to prepare from launch to having 2-4 weeks.

There's going to be 16 raid bosses, not including the 2 world pinatas; it's going to be an incredibly long progression grind. When it comes out there's going to be plenty of raid content to do, waiting a few extra weeks isn't going to kill you and if anything will be hugely beneficial whether you can see it or not.
Edited by Melenkor on 6/8/2012 6:40 AM PDT
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85 Orc Warlock
15100
The notion of delaying raiding is kind of silly.

If you're in a bleeding edge hardcore progression guild (haven't seen a poster here in one yet by the way) and feeling pressured to level as rapidly as possible at the start of the expansion by your guildmates this isn't a design problem. It is a player problem.

When you joined your guild they had certain expectations of you in terms of time commitment. If things have changed for you and that time commmitment is no longer feasable or desirable you need to change guilds. The solution is not to have the game design altered for you.

Gating removes player choice and limits player options. That's bad.

No one is forced to powerlevel and grind endlessly to catch up for fear of being left behind. You can't get left behind anymore. (arguably you never really could get left behind in classic/TBC's linear progression system either as failure to progress were products of player choice but that's a different discussion.) Gear resets have occured with every tier since Wrath when linear progression was removed. If some guild of 24/7 players beats your guild to 14/14 in the first tier it doesn't really matter. Everyone in both will have full BiS (with several pieces replacable by a vendor) when the next tier comes out.

No gating please.
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100 Human Rogue
11320
The sad part is, if I were to suggest pet battles or farmville be delayed in order to ensure timely and quality raids, a lot of you guys would be up in arms at the idea. Just like how the raiders are up in arms about the idea of not being allowed to raid at expansion release.


I'd be fine if they removed these features all together, even if the raid quality did not improve at all. I do not care about them. I simply have a job which I'd rather not get fired from over a video game. I don't think delaying raiding 1 week will have that big a negative impact on top guilds. Figure top guilds who grind level 90 out in elongated sitting its still going to take a day maybe a little longer. Then you have to gear. At some point during that week you will have to sleep. If it puts people who simply do not have time to take off from work on a similar playing field (being able to walk in the door at the same time, you will still have a gear advantage) why is that the biggest deal?

06/07/2012 10:38 PMPosted by Jorahlol
Outside factors shouldn't matter at all in whats happening in a video game. That's stupid. Wheres the personal responsibility? I have a career, I drink with friends, why should Blizzard plan in-game events around my schedule?


Because most people have jobs and drink with friends. They aren't planning around your schedule but planning around the majorities schedule. When the majority of people complain the game is too hard we have to nerf it but when the majority of people don't turn themselves into basement dwelling mouthbreathers for a week thats irrelevant?

06/07/2012 10:38 PMPosted by Jorahlol
Rofl, its so ironic how the regulars on this forum want a casual friendly game when it benefits them.


And I'm the first to admit this is ENTIRELY what it is. If the games going to be casual why shouldn't it work in my favor for a change? It's not a huge deal for me, it will not factor into my decision of whether or not to buy MOP in any way, its just an idea I wouldn't mind seeing implemented because it would directly benefit me.
Edited by Ninjablaze on 6/8/2012 7:35 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Priest
12640

Yeah but whats the point of gating it anyway for the people who want to "see the content?" What about the people who don't care about all the other crap they put in the expansion?

People need to regulate their own time and let others play how they want to. I don't need a Blizzard to tell me how to manage my time.


Then you just go raid on the PTR, because they would be on the PTR then, if you really can't wait.

Not like your guild is going to have any raid going on for 2-3 week after release anyways.
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90 Troll Druid
11615
Gating removes player choice and limits player options. That's bad.


Bingo.

I probably won't hit 90 the first week of MoP, but if I do, and enough guildies do, I'd still like to raid that week. Getting rid of that would just be like "uhh, so we have to wait 2 weeks to raid? wtf".
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100 Human Rogue
11320
I probably won't hit 90 the first week of MoP, but if I do, and enough guildies do, I'd still like to raid that week. Getting rid of that would just be like "uhh, so we have to wait 2 weeks to raid? wtf".


I think 1 week is reasonable. 1 week as in MOP drops Tuesday, raids open the following Tuesday.
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85 Human Priest
3720
06/08/2012 08:23 AMPosted by Neryssa
Now, I can't testify to your motives, but in my experience, players who want gated content are the ones who want the top players to be stalled so the lesser skilled players have a chance to catch up.

You killed Heroic Madness after the 20% nerf. You literally have no room to call yourself a "top player".

You killed Heroic Madness after the 10% nerf, I thought all the top players had it down before any nerfs?
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