Delaying Raiding in MoP

90 Pandaren Shaman
16840
I'm standing my ground. The rush to kill the first normal raid boss is too much fun. I do it with 1/2 guildies and 1/2 whoever else got there. We pull together whatever gear we can find, show up to boss 1 completely undergeared and spend however long it takes to kill it. No addons, no boss mods, just pure WoW.

This is not an activity for everyone, and I despise that you want to take this experience away from us.

We didn't make forum posts complaining that BwD was too hard for my 333 blues. We executed the fight to perfection to kill it after 2.5 hours. Check the achievement, within 1 week of release I earned the parasite evening achievement. That's what it took to kill the boss in the gear we had.

I respect your right to be casual, and kill things on your own time commitment. I don't respect your right to infringe on my decision at times not to be casual and kill things on my own time commitment.

Let's have some mutual respect here. You kill the boss when you want to, and I'll kill it when I want to. Likewise, you do pet battles when you want to, and I'll just ignore the fact that they exist.

Again, I pose the counterexample of not releasing any other content in MoP until raids are cleared. I respect that doesn't sound exciting to you. There's no need to throttle any content - raids or other content. Do what you want to do, when you want to do it. No one is stopping you, and the choice is your own on what to do when MoP comes out.

I don't advocate anything that removes choice.
Edited by Firestyle on 6/24/2012 1:26 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Shaman
16840
This whole thread to me seems like someone wanting to stomp on other people's fun, because they can't make it to the party.

I'm sorry and I wish a lot of you could be there, but that doesn't mean we're still not going to have a party.
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90 Troll Druid
11615
I'm standing my ground. The rush to kill the first normal raid boss is too much fun. I do it with 1/2 guildies and 1/2 whoever else got there. We pull together whatever gear we can find, show up to boss 1 completely undergeared and spend however long it takes to kill it. No addons, no boss mods, just pure WoW.

This is not an activity for everyone, and I despise that you want to take this experience away from us.

We didn't make forum posts complaining that BwD was too hard for my 333 blues. We executed the fight to perfection to kill it after 2.5 hours. Check the achievement, within 1 week of release I earned the parasite evening achievement. That's what it took to kill the boss in the gear we had.

I respect your right to be casual, and kill things on your own time commitment. I don't respect your right to infringe on my decision at times not to be casual and kill things on my own time commitment.

Let's have some mutual respect here. You kill the boss when you want to, and I'll kill it when I want to. Likewise, you do pet battles when you want to, and I'll just ignore the fact that they exist.

Again, I pose the counterexample of not releasing any other content in MoP until raids are cleared. I respect that doesn't sound exciting to you. There's no need to throttle any content - raids or other content. Do what you want to do, when you want to do it. No one is stopping you, and the choice is your own on what to do when MoP comes out.

I don't advocate anything that removes choice.


Couldn't agree more.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
24305
2 weeks seems like a good idea so I don't have to stay up for like 2 straight days like some sort of psycho if I want to remain competitive!
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85 Human Paladin
8725
I think you only ever get to experience something like this whenever an expansion comes out, where there's leveling, heroics, professions, raiding... it's all just so much awesome thrown at you at once. I don't think it should be delayed... because for EVERY tier in the expansion after that, we already get that ;(
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85 Orc Warlock
15100
06/24/2012 04:52 PMPosted by Healbøt
2 weeks seems like a good idea so I don't have to stay up for like 2 straight days like some sort of psycho if I want to remain competitive!


Competitive with whom exactly? And how does one "fall behind" when linear progression does not exist? You can completely ignore the first tier of raiding if you chose and gear up instantly (without ever setting foot in t14) for t15 when it is released.

Why should myself and millions of other players have to wait to enjoy the game because other people have more time restrictive environments? What happened to the arguments of "don't worry what gear other poeple have and just worry about yourself' when it came to access of raid instances?
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90 Worgen Warlock
12820
06/24/2012 05:30 PMPosted by Yukio
Competitive with whom exactly?

us :<

Why should myself and millions of other players have to wait to enjoy the game because other people have more time restrictive environments? What happened to the arguments of "don't worry what gear other poeple have and just worry about yourself' when it came to access of raid instances?

But I agree with this, I like the start of expansion rush, it's actually on of my favorite parts of this game :D
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100 Troll Rogue
17115
I think too much is really made about "the illusion of choice" nowadays, if you are the type who puts so much effort into wanting to go for world firsts or just raiding a day or 2 after expansion comes out you are going to be on doing something to better your toon or your army of alts even if the raids are delayed a week or more, if you arent in one of these guilds why does it matter if you start raiding a week or 2 later then everyone else.

I was ambivalent about delaying raids (I don't think I've raded in the first week of any expansion except maybe baradin hold in cata) but reading Firestyles take on it puts me in the side of not wanting to see them delayed at all, if people find the huge scramble in the first week of an expansion to raid fun why should it be taken from them?
Edited by Sabod on 6/24/2012 10:02 PM PDT
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85 Human Paladin
8725
This whole thread to me seems like someone wanting to stomp on other people's fun, because they can't make it to the party.

I'm sorry and I wish a lot of you could be there, but that doesn't mean we're still not going to have a party.


you mean like how raiders were running to stomp on other people at the beginning of Cataclysm?

I'd be ok if they took all raiding beyond LFR out. You cata-kiddies don't deserve it.


What the hell are you talking about?

People love the rush at the beginning. Leveling race, gearing race, raiding race. It's exciting. Why should they lose their fun because other people want them to hold up? What are we gonna do, ask olympic competitors to just hold up for a sec so us amateurs can catch up?

Do you think your stupid little insult is funny? "cata kiddies"? Really? These people sacrifice IRL to get ahead in game. They deserve their fun for that. Don't be a jerk and act all high and mighty like you're something special.

Pertaining to the thread: If the raids aren't ready, delay the whole game. We only get to experience this rush ONE TIME per expansion. This is an experience, and should not be ruined.
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90 Dwarf Rogue
16965
ya, the "Top tier players" will just have 1 or more of every class geared up and ready to raid week 1, by week 2, the gap between the people who takes WEEKS to do what people do in less than a day will still exist, as you'll see top end guilds with 10+ raid groups of alts gearing up, and poof, week 2 you have 5 or 6 Best in Slot characters ready to do heroics and already 6 months ahead of "ahh durp, I'd be world first if Blizzard didn't hold me down" people crying for 5 man nerfs.

I also agree with holding the game, I'd rather pay money for a full product than half of one, Blizzard has a track record of "rushing" content after release, if they released a no raid MoP and then raids, they'd be half hearted compared to what we get out of the boxes.

Karazhan and Tier 11 are held highly.... Vanilla is a different animal. Tier 14 looks to be pretty good from previews (already more depth in trash pulls than in half of DS)
Edited by Shanzhang on 6/25/2012 1:07 AM PDT
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90 Tauren Warrior
0
Like I said earlier before I got banned for being too real, its not fair for people who play the game for the rush. You're always welcome to not raid for a couple weeks. L2 manage your own time and play the game like you want to.
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90 Night Elf Druid
10550
False. Or at the very least an irrelevant statement. People...REAL people, have jobs and maybe children. Others have commitments that cannot wait for a game.


That doesn't negate the fact that there is still a "Choice" involved. Just because the choice may be a terrible one for some people, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist to be chosen.

I dislike this idea mainly because it takes away choices, rather than promote them. I like to raid and gear up at my leisure. I'm not interested at all in pet battles and everything else is there for me to explore once I get started in raiding. I'll have a whole year or two to see everything MoP has to offer.

I understand why people want this, but they have a choice either way as to how they want to experience the start of the game. They may not like the choice, but it's still there. I would not get the choice to raid when I choose to.
Edited by Sherbear on 6/25/2012 2:25 AM PDT
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100 Pandaren Rogue
9630

That aside, I do feel like there needs to be time to see everything the new expansion has to offer without feeling like you are wasting your time when you could be getting ready to raid.


We are gonna have like a whole 2 years of exploring the new continent so its not like its going anywhere. Blizz shouldnt hold back raiding for casual-like players still, those that like the passion of raiding want to get in on it asap.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
16840
How does this idea of "I don't have time to do it, so Blizzard should prevent others from doing it" even come across people's minds?

I don't have time to go to kung fu class every week, that doesn't mean they should cancel the class. I also don't have time to go to happy hour every week, that doesn't mean they should close the bar.

This whole conversation is ridiculous.
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100 Human Rogue
11320
06/24/2012 10:52 PMPosted by Darkerdesign
I'd be ok if they took all raiding beyond LFR out. You cata-kiddies don't deserve it.


2011 called. It wants its gear back.

EDIT:

06/25/2012 07:58 AMPosted by Firestyle
How does this idea of "I don't have time to do it, so Blizzard should prevent others from doing it" even come across people's minds?


I want every competitive advantage I can get. At least I'm being honest about it.
Edited by Ninjablaze on 6/25/2012 8:06 AM PDT
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85 Orc Warlock
15100
06/25/2012 08:04 AMPosted by Ninjablaze
I want every competitive advantage I can get. At least I'm being honest about it.


And once again competitive with whom?
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100 Human Rogue
11320
And once again competitive with whom?


Hopefully next tier we will be competitive with the US. This tier we made the 25 man transition, next tier we should be able to accomplish good things. We aren't gunning for your blood legions as we will not be raiding 35+ hours a week but I still expect us to rank much higher next tier than we did this tier. Top 250 seems like a reasonable goal.
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90 Orc Shaman
13550
06/25/2012 08:04 AMPosted by Ninjablaze
I want every competitive advantage I can get. At least I'm being honest about it


Huh?

Let's say they actually did this and delayed raiding for a month. The people who raid would be ready, they'd leap into raid content on day 1, and multiple bosses would start to fall over while the casual crowd either still wasn't ready or struggled on the first few bosses.

Nothing would change except that the start of the race would be wouldn't be at 85, it would be at 90 in full 5-man gear. You're just moving up the white line in the dirt, but it won't make any noticeable difference in the marathon.

ICC's gating mechanics didn't make a difference, either.
Edited by Hyjinx on 6/25/2012 9:06 AM PDT
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100 Human Rogue
11320
06/25/2012 09:05 AMPosted by Hyjinx
Nothing would change except that the start of the race would be wouldn't be at 85, it would be at 90 in full 5-man gear. You're just moving up the white line in the dirt, but it won't make any noticeable difference in the marathon.


I'm not saying it will make us beat paragon or anything. I'm simply stating starting at the same time as everyone else is more advantageous then started a week or 2 behind. There is no arguing that.
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