The Future of PvP in Mists of Pandaria

100 Blood Elf Rogue
8035
Tom Chilton - We know that for many PvPers, the idea of getting a large raid (or two) together to invade a city is something that can make for great world PvP. We also know that there has been an issue with guards causing this to be a less appealing undertaking for them as the guards have gotten stronger. We obviously want those guards there doing their jobs, but we don’t want them to be the wall that you just can’t get over. So, we are planning to adjust the guards only on PvP realms to where they aren’t quite as strong as you’d find them on a PvE realm, and they won’t respawn quite as quickly either. We’re still working on this, but we hope to get this adjustment in before the release of Mists of Pandaria. It’s worth noting that the guards on PvE realms will remain the same as they are now.


People on PvE servers enjoy pvp as well. The buffing on guards murdered anything resembling PvP across ALL servers. This is a BS change to make it only for PvP realms.
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90 Undead Warlock
14110
When I saw that there was a blog about PvP, I got very excited. After I read it, I felt disappointment. Please view my comments in the context of "I really want PvP to be improved, and it is important to me."

From my point of view, the reason more people don't PvP in WoW is because WoW's PvP isn't fun for many people. The reasons are not due to relatively minor variance in class balance. It's because the gameplay is fundamentally bad - too much CC, far too short a time to burst someone down, and not enough information/feedback given by the game's UI.

Or, as I like to say: "I died without being able to push my buttons and I don't know why."

I'm glad we're getting two new battlegrounds, but that is sort of standard for a WoW expansion. I'm glad we're getting a new arena map, but again that is not groundbreaking.

What I really need to hear about is how Blizzard plans to address the core gameplay. Why do offensive stats scale exponentially in WoW, while defensive stats like Stamina scale linearly? Why does PvP have to self-break at the end of every expansion via gear? Why doesn't the UI communicate vital information such as diminishing returns or enemy cooldowns?

Maybe that makes for a less exciting blog than talking about a new arena map. I'm not sure.

It is well meaning and appreciated for Tom to say that he would like to get people out in the world for more rough and tumble. But if the core gameplay is sour, then creating more world PvP will only cause more frustration for many.
Edited by Ashin on 6/5/2012 12:08 PM PDT
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90 Troll Druid
11620
To an extent, I agree. However it IS part of the game. PvE content allows for it. PvP allows for it. I think, and maybe I'm off base here, is that the intent is giving the way the new talent systems work greater flexibility and use across the spectrum of game play rather than 'Oh, this boss requires quick movement, EVERYONE switch out X talent for X talent' in PvE content alone.

Well, that's what PvE is--being able to maximize your damage without sacrificing utility you need. I know it's been said a trillion times by now, but PvP and PvE are different.

PvE is killing a scripted encounter.
Arenas are a test of skill (...for some classes)
(not going to refer to RBGs in this discussion, since it's not part of this little discussion ^^)
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100 Human Warrior
16290
Flack cannons!? Yay!

But the whole fact that PvE realms with still have the same unstoppable guards irks me to no end. Some of us like to PvP on PvE realms, but want to take a break from it every now and then.

I'm not saying the should not be a bit stronger to protect quest hubs and such, but they should NOT be at the ridicules level they are now.
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51 Draenei Paladin
320
06/05/2012 10:53 AMPosted by Ptarr
I think the only thing that concerns me in this post is no flying sub-90. Does this apply to everyone? Or just people running around on Pandaria?
Just people in Pandaria. But you'll have a hard time getting enough XP to level beyond 86 outside of it.


Ah, ok. I know it's normal to not allow flying in the new area of an expansion, but the wording makes it sound like it's referring to the entire world rather than a specific place.
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100 Night Elf Druid
16830
I'll just leave this here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4768687029

With the ability to blacklist battlegrounds, the removal of marks of honor and the presence of 9 other battlegrounds, can we PLEASE, PLEASE have an open discussion on Alterac Valley? I don't think any of the suggestions in that thread are unreasonable.

The fact that there are so many people wanting this and that it's the one thing that has been in constant demand for as long as I can remember show there is a demand for a game that isn't over in 20 minutes.

We're not asking for day long games, but something we can indulge ourselves in for an hour or so.
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100 Dwarf Paladin
14120
I feel that I'm kind of in a minority position on these changes in that I play on a PvP realm and yet I don't want these world PvP changes.

To give a little background, I am totally anti-world PvP because that I hate the disruption it brings to questing, farming, etc. and yet I play on a PvP realm. The only reason I play on a PvP realm is because this is where my friends set up shop before I started playing with them. If it wasn't for them I would entirely avoid PvP realms. It's not so bad now that my realm is rather low population, but I fear the new cross-server stuff will force me to spend more time fending off people that I don't want to deal with.

What this new design focus means to me is that I can expect to encounter even more disruptions to gameplay all because some random person I've never met decided that his time was more valuable than mine.

Server xfering my characters would be a rather expensive proposition and since I wouldn't be able to play with my friends except by jumping through a bunch of hoops it's out of the question. Is there any way I can individually remove myself from the cross-realm stuff or am I going to have to level purely through LFG?
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100 Blood Elf Rogue
8035
A buddy and I would regularly go stir up trouble in random towns that we knew our server population liked to defend. Usually just pinging guards to get some alarms out. It was generally speaking a good time and evolved into some truly entertaining 12 on 12 or larger encounters between our guild and others.

When the guards were buffed it put a quick stop to that. Just one of the max level guards would put a serious dent in any attempt to attack the town. Well just drag the defenders out of the town you say!

But they wouldn't leave the town. They knew that we had no way to press in because of the super guards but if they left the protective embrace of their overpowered masters they'd be crushed. Many raids would end up with us wiping to a swarm of angry bees and only four defenders because we got tired of waiting.

Quest NPCs respawn extremely quickly now anyway. They don't need robocop spawning to defend them.
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100 Blood Elf Rogue
8035
I feel that I'm kind of in a minority position on these changes in that I play on a PvP realm and yet I don't want these world PvP changes.

To give a little background, I am totally anti-world PvP because that I hate the disruption it brings to questing, farming, etc. and yet I play on a PvP realm. The only reason I play on a PvP realm is because this is where my friends set up shop before I started playing with them. If it wasn't for them I would entirely avoid PvP realms. It's not so bad now that my realm is rather low population, but I fear the new cross-server stuff will force me to spend more time fending off people that I don't want to deal with.

What this new design focus means to me is that I can expect to encounter even more disruptions to gameplay all because some random person I've never met decided that his time was more valuable than mine.

Server xfering my characters would be a rather expensive proposition and since I wouldn't be able to play with my friends except by jumping through a bunch of hoops it's out of the question. Is there any way I can individually remove myself from the cross-realm stuff or am I going to have to level purely through LFG?


To be frank you had plenty of warning rolling on a PvP server what to expect. Blame your friends, not blizzards changes. The majority of people on PvP servers enjoy PvP. You're in the minority just as I suppose I am for PvE servers.
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90 Draenei Mage
16945
I'm not too sure how I feel about getting to change your talents around before an arena begins.

It already irks me that there is no reason in pve to take a build and stick to it like there is in diablo 3 with the (honestly amazing) nephalem valor system. Now I find this is the case in pvp as well? It bugs me a little, makes me feel like talents are essentially pointless if you can always have the best one for the situation with pretty much no downsides.

I'm also a little unsure how it will affect the balance of the game. In the end I guess it would probably be mostly neutral or slightly positive if people largely use the same builds in each matchup that are ideal for them, you won't find many situations where people lose due to having non-optimal builds for the situation because they went with a more generic build that maybe is poor just against your setup or some such.

That might make it a bit more dull and/or predictable though. Well... maybe having a pretty good idea what talents your opponent has isn't a bad thing... that could also just be displayed by the ui if it's so important though (although I can't really think of a GOOD way to display it on the ui). Hrm.
Edited by Kolzi on 6/5/2012 11:27 AM PDT
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85 Blood Elf Priest
13380
With the ability to blacklist battlegrounds, the removal of marks of honor and the presence of 9 other battlegrounds, can we PLEASE, PLEASE have an open discussion on Alterac Valley? I don't think any of the suggestions in that thread are unreasonable.

The fact that there are so many people wanting this and that it's the one thing that has been in constant demand for as long as I can remember show there is a demand for a game that isn't over in 20 minutes.

We're not asking for day long games, but something we can indulge ourselves in for an hour or so.


We've been wanting them to fix this BG for YEARS and they still haven't gotten around to it. I've all but given up hope for them to make the small changes required to make this BG great again. I mean, is it too much to ask that as a Horde, I get to be INSIDE a damn building to cast the flag capture for the towers? Why do I have to keep getting bombarded by Archers when the Alliance doesn't suffer such blatant design imbalances?

I could go off, but I think it's high time we all banded together to get them to focus on this BG to let it return to greatness.
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100 Human Warrior
16290
Flack cannons!? Yay!

But the whole fact that PvE realms with still have the same unstoppable guards irks me to no end. Some of us like to PvP on PvE realms, but want to take a break from it every now and then.


Sounds like PVE servers are not for you.


Be nice if you read my post before responding lol
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100 Night Elf Druid
16830
I'll also add a post saying that I think adding achievements and a weekly quest to kill a randomised faction leader would be really beneficial and drive activity to lesser used capitals. Example: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4768627506

edit: Any issues with the faction leaders being dead disrupting questing can easily be solved by having an unattackable NPC next to them that has the same quests as the faction leader: for example, Prince Anduin for Stormwind or Sentinel Brightgrass in Darnassus.
Edited by Bynir on 6/5/2012 11:30 AM PDT
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85 Human Paladin
6555
I feel like a lot of these changes are in the wrong direction. They're in the direction of trying to force people into situations where they can be killed. The problem isn't that it's too hard to do that - on the contrary, it's too easy to do that and it ruins the play experience for a lot of people.

The solution to world PvP is to make people want to do it. Make it possible to get good world PvP fights. Make it well-rewarded. Discourage bad world PvP fights (e.g. ganking and other one-sided stuff). Make it easier to get into good world PvP fights (removing Have Group is a step away from that). Add ways to help make fights even.

If you don't want to do that? Free transfers for everyone on PvP servers, please. Many of us have friends who don't want to put up with this stuff and they shouldn't have to pay hundreds of dollars or lose their characters to avoid it.

Sounds like you want a battleground. World PvP is random -- sometimes you have the advantage, sometimes the other guy has it, and occasionally it's an even fight. Most importantly, it's spontaneous and doesn't always require a reward. That is the essence of world PvP.
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100 Blood Elf Rogue
8035
A buddy and I would regularly go stir up trouble in random towns that we knew our server population liked to defend. Usually just pinging guards to get some alarms out. It was generally speaking a good time and evolved into some truly entertaining 12 on 12 or larger encounters between our guild and others.

When the guards were buffed it put a quick stop to that. Just one of the max level guards would put a serious dent in any attempt to attack the town. Well just drag the defenders out of the town you say!

But they wouldn't leave the town. They knew that we had no way to press in because of the super guards but if they left the protective embrace of their overpowered masters they'd be crushed. Many raids would end up with us wiping to a swarm of angry bees and only four defenders because we got tired of waiting.

Quest NPCs respawn extremely quickly now anyway. They don't need robocop spawning to defend them.


Griefing quest hubs is not an acceptable practice on PVE servers; a GM can put an end to that if it gets excessive. If you want to be a douche and ruin a low-level player's experience, go to a PVP server and do that stuff there. PVP servers will be a hub for that sort of activity in MoP.


You lack reading comprehension don't you? At what point in that statement did I say anything about wiping towns? The fact of the matter is people that want to grief will still grief regardless of the OP guards. The change only hurt people who legitimately enjoyed world pvp.

In my seven years of playing this game and being active in the world pvp enviroment I've not once ran into a situation I was involved in that a GM stepped it. I've never heard of anything like that either. Even in cases where a team of douches held Bloodhoof for two hours.
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55 Night Elf Rogue
820
wow great changes blizzard! this is the 1st blue post that has actually gotten me excited about mop. Seems like blizzard is actually taking steps to address the problem with everyone being camped out in sw/org all day while also doing something for the pvp community for once.
Idk why anyone would be upset at all over this but if u suck so much that u need guards that can 1 shot other players protecting you all the time then dont roll on a pvp server lol its simple
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