Normalize BG Rosters

90 Human Rogue
2845
06/17/2012 01:51 AMPosted by Opopopopo
Incentivise healers with extra honour, pets, shiny things, gold, whatever, and forbid spec switching for them.

You don't want to offer PvE incentives for PvP. Think how bad holidays already effect battlegrounds negatively.
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85 Night Elf Priest
5010
No, no and no. Like others have more or less said healers do not win BGs; teamwork wins BGs. Yes having about 30% healers is a good thing, but so often the DPS are so bad & clueless that having healers doesn't matter.

If you want to improve BGs then give more incentives for actually trying to win & nerf incentives for midiots & road warriors. However stop blaming healers or the lack thereof because you have simply misdiagnosed the root cause of the problem (which is bad play).
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3 Undead Mage
0
yeah, i would like to say i have a perfect solution for this, but i don't.

however, i still stand by what i said - we need to actually have people willing to play healers, because without them the game is broke. the pros outweigh the cons. without people healing the FC the game will become a 25 minute zerg and rez, which is good for people who want to mindlessly PvP...but still rather bad for everyone else.

in fact, the more healers there are on the team (up to say, 3 or 4), the better the situation gets for both the dps and the healers.

if having no healers is awful, being the only healer on your team is equally awful, if not worse, because guess who will be made to sit in CC and run for dear life the whole game?

To the guy above: you must be having blinders on if you truly believe in what you say. There is no such thing as "good play" when your FC does not receive heals. You can play as well as you like but the fact is that the flag is never going to reach your end of the map if the enemy team does nothing but attack him.
Edited by Opopopopo on 6/17/2012 7:44 AM PDT
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We did an AB last night against a horde group with zero heals. We had three heals on our side. They roflstomped our butts with a 4 cap. Leader board was a sea of red for top damage with only two alliance in the top 10, which is funny considering most of our group was in combat most of the game rather than defending a node.
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85 Orc Hunter
10280
06/16/2012 10:34 PMPosted by Mutiilation
Pro tip: Reading comprehension.


I hate when people say this. Their Original Post is two or three sentences, tops, and then people have to make inference from these few lines. And when they do, the OP goes ballistic and says "reading comprehension ftw".

Is there some standardized troll handbook somewhere with a formulaic response to posts? I would like to purchase a copy.
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85 Night Elf Priest
5010
06/17/2012 07:40 AMPosted by Opopopopo
To the guy above: you must be having blinders on if you truly believe in what you say. There is no such thing as "good play" when your FC does not receive heals. You can play as well as you like but the fact is that the flag is never going to reach your end of the map if the enemy team does nothing but attack him.
I have been in countless BGs with no healers and we won & lost plenty where we had an equal or greater number of healers. You are simply wrong... nothing to debate just wrong.
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66 Blood Elf Death Knight
7280
Is there some standardized troll handbook somewhere with a formulaic response to posts? I would like to purchase a copy.

Rule #1 Get really really angry before you post anything
Rule #2 Remember that Blizzard is out to get you and that anyone who disagrees with you is a mindless drone
Rule #3 No experience in game has merit other than your own experience.
Rule #4 The concept of logic does not exist. Forget you ever heard that word.

Formulaic responses should come on their own as long as you abide by these simple and comprehensive rules.
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85 Night Elf Priest
5010
Rule #5 If someone brings facts into the discussion ignore said facts and/or introduce a red herring into the discussion to divert attention away from said facts
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90 Troll Mage
13690
What no one will admit is that healers do in fact have a large impact on BG's.
For the simple reason that most BG's have a "timer" of sorts, be it resources, reinforcements, or an actual timer. Healers help to run those timers out, take WSG for example. Say the opposing team has capped a flag, and all you would need is 1 flag to win being the last team to have capped, and you have 12 minutes left, the opposing team can just grab your flag, and throw every healer they have on the FC and outheal your DPS until the FC's debuff reaches 10 stacks or time runs out. Never having to go for your FC at all.

Or take AB or Battle for Gilneas for example.....if there are 3 healers on 1 node, see how long it takes your team to down them all and cap that node....unless you move on to another node, they will have gained so many resources just from sitting on the cap healing, that you have no chance of winning.

When time is "the" key factor, having more healers than your opponent increases your chances of winning a lot.
Edited by Boombatic on 6/17/2012 9:00 AM PDT
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90 Troll Mage
13690
06/17/2012 08:14 AMPosted by Faenya
To the guy above: you must be having blinders on if you truly believe in what you say. There is no such thing as "good play" when your FC does not receive heals. You can play as well as you like but the fact is that the flag is never going to reach your end of the map if the enemy team does nothing but attack him.
I have been in countless BGs with no healers and we won & lost plenty where we had an equal or greater number of healers. You are simply wrong... nothing to debate just wrong.


I farted once. Just because something happens a few times does not make it the norm. Yes you can beat a team that has healers even if you have none if that team is bad, but normally the team with the healers will win.
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85 Night Elf Priest
5010
06/17/2012 09:03 AMPosted by Boombatic
I farted once. Just because something happens a few times does not make it the norm. Yes you can beat a team that has healers even if you have none if that team is bad, but normally the team with the healers will win.
It happens fairly frequently. As you well know bad players always look for excuses for failing & lack of healers is a popular excuse. As I said yes having about 30% healers is a good thing, but in the vast majority of cases teams lose because they are outplayed.

Once in a while you have a team that lacks heals and/or is outgeared but is trying hard to win but can't... this is the exception & not the norm.
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66 Blood Elf Death Knight
7280
06/17/2012 09:03 AMPosted by Boombatic
I farted once. Just because something happens a few times does not make it the norm. Yes you can beat a team that has healers even if you have none if that team is bad, but normally the team with the healers will win.

Are you saying you don't normally fart? Because I'm pretty sure that's not healthy...

In any case, heals can be a great asset to the team, but a good healer healing bad dps is relatively ineffective, just as three bad healers won't seal a win.

Teamwork will make or break your bg experience. Healers are great, but they are only a determining factor when they are skilled/geared and healing competent dps. Aka working as a team.
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90 Troll Mage
13690
06/17/2012 09:13 AMPosted by Faenya
I farted once. Just because something happens a few times does not make it the norm. Yes you can beat a team that has healers even if you have none if that team is bad, but normally the team with the healers will win.
It happens fairly frequently. As you well know bad players always look for excuses for failing & lack of healers is a popular excuse. As I said yes having about 30% healers is a good thing, but in the vast majority of cases teams lose because they are outplayed.

Once in a while you have a team that lacks heals and/or is outgeared but is trying hard to win but can't... this is the exception & not the norm.


Your ignorant one size fits all philosophy's for every single situation are exactly that....ignorant.

I'm deffinitly sure that you playing a healer has nothing to do with your defending them to the death lol.

Read my post above the one you quoted and tell me I'm wrong about it.
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90 Troll Mage
13690
06/17/2012 09:25 AMPosted by Grimms
I farted once. Just because something happens a few times does not make it the norm. Yes you can beat a team that has healers even if you have none if that team is bad, but normally the team with the healers will win.

Are you saying you don't normally fart? Because I'm pretty sure that's not healthy...

In any case, heals can be a great asset to the team, but a good healer healing bad dps is relatively ineffective, just as three bad healers won't seal a win.

Teamwork will make or break your bg experience. Healers are great, but they are only a determining factor when they are skilled/geared and healing competent dps. Aka working as a team.


Ok lets get into specifics now and blanket the entire discussion while we hide behind such awsome comments as "Bad healers arnt good". Obviously healers in greens healing dps in greens will not win a bg, that's nothing about what was being discussed at all.
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66 Blood Elf Death Knight
7280
06/17/2012 09:28 AMPosted by Boombatic
Ok lets get into specifics now and blanket the entire discussion while we hide behind such awsome comments as "Bad healers arnt good". Obviously healers in greens healing dps in greens will not win a bg, that's nothing about what was being discussed at all.


How is that specific? Generally, teamwork is more important than class/roll distribution in randoms. Sure once in a while you'll get some really odd comp like 9 DKs and a warlock or something, but like you said - just because it has happened doesn't mean it always happens.

Normalizing bg rosters will only make queue times longer - they will not guarantee a fair or even fun fight. It is up to players to get into a bg, look around and try to use what they are given to the best of their ability in order to pull out a win.

No matter what, there will be disparities in random bgs. Even if they put an equal number of healers on each team, there will still be gear and skill discrepancies that will cut into peoples' fun and make games seem "unfair". Basically, if you can't play as a team it does not matter how many healers you have or whether you have a tank with you or not.

That is what I was saying, and I think it ties into the "discussion" here pretty directly.
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90 Draenei Warrior
8510
ive capped flags with no healers, ive also won games were we had zero heals and the horde team had 4-5 of them, cordinated dps with working brain cells has turned out to be alot more important then healers.
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90 Troll Mage
13690
So I've been trying an experiment today....I'm running actual random BG's, and typing your posts in them about heals not mattering, Premades not being OP etc.....and getting their responses.

So far they all agree you are all ignorant.

I'll update as the day goes on, to see if anyone at all in the actual game agrees with any of you.
Edited by Boombatic on 6/17/2012 10:10 AM PDT
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