Mists of Pandaria and...it's point?

90 Tauren Druid
Oz
8940
@the whole "April Fools joke" people:

Afaik Metzen had both illustrated and had given the Pandaren a page in the published original Monsters manual for the table top edition of Warcraft BEFORE all the crap you people refer to and possibly even the inception of the video game series. (I can't remember the dates even though I remember playing WC1 fondly as a 15 yo after school and work.)

I'm 99% sure there is proof of it. Iirc Bash linked it a little while after Blizzcon to shut people up. Strangely I've NEVER seen a single whiner include that point when arguing against it.

I'm way to lazy to look it up but the drawing is of a Pandaren, a (one of those damn bear things from felwood) a gnome and some other creature in it. Yeah I realize the memory is a little shaky but in general its correct even if the details are a tad fuzzy.


Look dude preliminary sketches and concept artwork don't mean anything, we have Tauren space marine concept art as well. If blizz came out with the world of warcraft: Infinitiy and beyond expac, we would call it a toy story rip off. The fact blizzard had space marine concept art before toy story wouldn't matter its the audiences association with the material and the lack of separation of that material (artistically and thematically the two materials are very close together heck (kungdu panda, mists of pandaria).

At some point a conscious decision was made internally that Panda's do not fit into the warcraft mythos and were more of a gag of WC3, thus the material was used in an April fools joke. Now a few years later running low on creativity that April fools joke is being implemented. Its evidence of a creativity vacuum, "we can't come up with anything new or interesting, lets just flesh out an old April fools gag into an expansion".


Would you be satisfied with a fully playable hero unit in WC3?

http://classic.battle.net/war3/neutral/pandarenbrewmaster.shtml

All you do when you insist they were never 'really' part of the lore is show how little you know the lore.
90 Draenei Mage
9640


Its not war in the traditional Warcraft style though, its like Saturday morning cartoon war with (spoiler alert) "bunny rabbit dungeons" and "varmints stealing our vegetables".

Not an undead legion raining from the sky while orcs and humans fight on an abandoned field, not a fallen prince strutting into a throne room and brutally "succeeding" his father.


Granted, Arthas was a pretty good villain in War 3 and WotLK, but imo, Warcraft 3s attempt to make the Horde look better than they are was a mistake. Truely compelling storylines have always been told in terms of black and white, not this post-modernist gray that has infected warcraft lore.

And, hey, there are some that really do like being the Bad Guy.

I hope this gets rectified in MoP; I want to see the final cut scene showing the Alliance supervising Thrall and his minions marching back to Outland thru the Dark Portal


i guess you never read ASOIF
90 Tauren Druid
Oz
8940
06/28/2012 08:04 PMPosted by Elunih
Not at all, they are neutral at the start since they don't know either side but ultimately they do have to go one way or another making the true neutrality impossible.


And fighting your brother to the death is totally possible?

Orcs, Blood Elves, Undead, Tauren, Trolls and Goblins vrs. Humans, Worgen, Night Elves, Dwarves, Draenei, and Gnomes

All of them have a separation of race and long histories of hatred fueling their fight, when you get to panderia though it's like

"You two brothers with differing philosophical views, kill each other!"


Have you heard of a little event in US history called the Civil War?
90 Human Warrior
7395
06/28/2012 02:55 PMPosted by Nethaera
So, that said, in the expansion, we're sort of going back to our roots of adventure, exploration, and that ongoing conflict between the Horde and the Alliance


Please say this means world PvP will be reborn! Weaken town guards, and encourge zones of combined profit and PvP danger (perfect example: Isle of Quel'Danas @ BC).

Each server is marked "PvE" or "PvP" or "-RPG"; maybe this PvP-oriented change could be kept on these PvP servers, so that PvE'ers (unwilling participants to pvp) can have their way too.
90 Draenei Mage
9640


Its not war in the traditional Warcraft style though, its like Saturday morning cartoon war with (spoiler alert) "bunny rabbit dungeons" and "varmints stealing our vegetables".

Not an undead legion raining from the sky while orcs and humans fight on an abandoned field, not a fallen prince strutting into a throne room and brutally "succeeding" his father.


Granted, Arthas was a pretty good villain in War 3 and WotLK, but imo, Warcraft 3s attempt to make the Horde look better than they are was a mistake. Truely compelling storylines have always been told in terms of black and white, not this post-modernist gray that has infected warcraft lore.

And, hey, there are some that really do like being the Bad Guy.

I hope this gets rectified in MoP; I want to see the final cut scene showing the Alliance supervising Thrall and his minions marching back to Outland thru the Dark Portal


i guess you never read ASOIF

@the whole "April Fools joke" people:

Afaik Metzen had both illustrated and had given the Pandaren a page in the published original Monsters manual for the table top edition of Warcraft BEFORE all the crap you people refer to and possibly even the inception of the video game series. (I can't remember the dates even though I remember playing WC1 fondly as a 15 yo after school and work.)

I'm 99% sure there is proof of it. Iirc Bash linked it a little while after Blizzcon to shut people up. Strangely I've NEVER seen a single whiner include that point when arguing against it.

I'm way to lazy to look it up but the drawing is of a Pandaren, a (one of those damn bear things from felwood) a gnome and some other creature in it. Yeah I realize the memory is a little shaky but in general its correct even if the details are a tad fuzzy.


Look dude preliminary sketches and concept artwork don't mean anything, we have Tauren space marine concept art as well. If blizz came out with the world of warcraft: Infinitiy and beyond expac, we would call it a toy story rip off. The fact blizzard had space marine concept art before toy story wouldn't matter its the audiences association with the material and the lack of separation of that material (artistically and thematically the two materials are very close together heck (kungdu panda, mists of pandaria).

At some point a conscious decision was made internally that Panda's do not fit into the warcraft mythos and were more of a gag of WC3, thus the material was used in an April fools joke. Now a few years later running low on creativity that April fools joke is being implemented. Its evidence of a creativity vacuum, "we can't come up with anything new or interesting, lets just flesh out an old April fools gag into an expansion".


if you seriously believe that they are only putting pandaren in because they have "run out of ideas" then your are pretty stupid, even more so if you think you know what "conscious decisions" blizzard made INTERNALLY
90 Human Paladin
9885
06/28/2012 02:59 PMPosted by Nethaera
Well I do love exploration and adventure.


Who doesn't? ;)


me
90 Draenei Mage
9640
So, that said, in the expansion, we're sort of going back to our roots of adventure, exploration, and that ongoing conflict between the Horde and the Alliance


Please say this means world PvP will be reborn! Weaken town guards, and encourge zones of combined profit and PvP danger (perfect example: Isle of Quel'Danas @ BC).

Each server is marked "PvE" or "PvP" or "-RPG"; maybe this PvP-oriented change could be kept on these PvP servers, so that PvE'ers (unwilling participants to pvp) can have their way too.


yes thats what it means, for instance i think the town guards will be weakened and you even get a little honor for them (i cant remember where i heard this so i might be wrong). the no flying till 90 helps with world pvp abit aswell

also theres the re-introduction of world bosses which will undoubtedly result in some epic horde vs alliance vs boss pvp lol
Edited by Bigbluemage on 6/28/2012 10:15 PM PDT
90 Draenei Mage
9640
pandas were introduced at the end of WC3 they have a lot of lore, and are not in actuality an april fols joke.


Um but they were used as an April fools joke? This creates the perception they do not fit within the world of warcraft experience and as confirmed by the development team they tried to implement them at various times but ultimately decided they did not fit in wow.

Now they are dedicating an entire expansion to them.. really? Material that was cut read was not worthy of inclusion in any prior expansion due to how out of place it felt in the world of warcraft, was eventually used as a gag to self-mock warcraft, now has an entire expansion?


lets get 1 thing straight, they didnt leave them out of BC because they "didnt fit" in WoW they left them out because 1. they didnt fit in THAT EXPANSION and 2. them suddenly appearing and proclaiming for the alliance all of a sudden out of no-where did not fit at all especially considering the only other known pandaren worked together with the leaders of the HORDE.

short version: they needed MORE lore and explanation to put them in BC then could be spared, Blizzard wanted a whole expansion to flesh them out (which shows they like them as a race more then blood elves and draenei who both have hardly any lore at all)
Edited by Bigbluemage on 6/28/2012 10:28 PM PDT
90 Draenei Mage
9640
06/28/2012 09:58 PMPosted by Moghroith


And fighting your brother to the death is totally possible?

Orcs, Blood Elves, Undead, Tauren, Trolls and Goblins vrs. Humans, Worgen, Night Elves, Dwarves, Draenei, and Gnomes

All of them have a separation of race and long histories of hatred fueling their fight, when you get to panderia though it's like

"You two brothers with differing philosophical views, kill each other!"


Have you heard of a little event in US history called the Civil War?


not to mention the entire troll race.
85 Human Warlock
9685
I have a problem with the pandarens having to choose horde or alliance at level 12. How can they possibly make an informed choice? There are 3 or 4 quests involving both sides but they involve the survival of the horde or alliance who have crashed on the turtle. I saw nothing that gives any idea of the differences between the two factions. Most of us already know which way we are going from our previous wow play, but if you really consider it - it's a crapshot for the pandaren or else they flip a coin. And then both Varian and Garrosh tell them they cannot speak to their family members and friends who chose the other faction and must, in fact, be prepared to kill them.
100 Human Mage
10055
Can't wait.
90 Dwarf Death Knight
16770
06/28/2012 04:15 PMPosted by Nethaera
There will be lore. Oh yes, there will be.


Any titan or old god lore possibly? sorry just a fan of that part of warcraft lore
82 Troll Hunter
1050
06/28/2012 10:50 PMPosted by Lunden
I have a problem with the pandarens having to choose horde or alliance at level 12. How can they possibly make an informed choice? There are 3 or 4 quests involving both sides but they involve the survival of the horde or alliance who have crashed on the turtle. I saw nothing that gives any idea of the differences between the two factions. Most of us already know which way we are going from our previous wow play, but if you really consider it - it's a crapshot for the pandaren or else they flip a coin. And then both Varian and Garrosh tell them they cannot speak to their family members and friends who chose the other faction and must, in fact, be prepared to kill them.


That awkward moment when your Pandaren realizes what s/he has signed on for could be part of the fun.
85 Undead Warlock
14910
This toon has killed other Orcs, notably in Blackrock and Hellfire. My troll alt has killed trolls in the Hinterlands. My Forsaken Death Knight has killed scourge. My blood elf has killed the wretched. My goblin will likely be my first toon to go to war with the Steamwheedle Cartel. When I roll a Tauren, he or she will fight the Grimtotem.

My human will likely kill members of the Defias. If I roll a dwarf, he or she will kill Dark Irons. You get the idea...


Yes I do, but the Pandarean starting zone is the same area for both future Horde and Alliance pandas. meaning "Kill your brother" is less of a metaphorical "Kill another panda" and more of a literal "Kill your own flesh and blood"
9 Undead Warlock
0
Look at me!

I'm a bad a$$ who eats nails for breakfast with no milk.

I only watch mature television shows and movies with lots of violence and boobs.

Pandas r ferr sissies. I liked this game when it was edgy and only had cow people, space goats, walrus people, twilight werewolves, blood elves, hairy cow people. Those are all serious not like pandas.
90 Human Warlock
12620
06/28/2012 04:15 PMPosted by Nethaera
There will be lore. Oh yes, there will be.
And none of it includes Thrall, right?
NONE OF IT. AT ALL. Right?

Thrall was the worst.
100 Orc Death Knight
18025
I'm excited for this expansion. I like the idea of an expansion based around us lucking our way to a new landmass and fighting over it, rather than intentionally heading off to defeat a big bad. Makes for some great story telling potential. We know nothing, so we must learn. It's possibly one of the biggest sources of untapped lore in WoW history. We'd already been to Outland and Northrend in the RTS games, and Cataclysm just brought current lore forward. Pandaria is totally untapped.
100 Human Paladin
13775
Blatant oxymoron is blatant.

“One can only give an unbiased opinion about things that do not interest one, which is no doubt the reason an unbiased opinion is always valueless. The man who sees both sides of a question is a man who sees absolutely nothing.” -- Oscar Wilde


I don't care what you say my opinion is humble.


You cared enough to reply.
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