Question for Alliance Players(Mop Spoilers)

91 Night Elf Druid
6055
How would the Horde's army be bigger? If Garrosh only took a tiny fraction of the Horde with him then the Horde wouldn't need the Alliance to beat him, he has to take more then half the Horde with him and be stronger then the remaining horde armies to make the Horde be willing to join forces with the Alliance.

If that is the case then why would the remaining horde forces outnumber the Alliance army?


You're on their land, in their city, they aren't all going to die. The amount of troops it would take for the Alliance to occupy and maintain Org until they could create negotiations would severely deplete their resources.

This would open a huge opportunity for Sylvanas in EK. All she'd have to do is make it to SW while you're all focusing on Org and then take control over the SW graveyard and resurrect all your fallen heros. Then make them her mental slaves. Sacking all of SW while everyone is away.

It would be stupid of the Alliance to send any more troops than what would be completely necessary to aid the Horde in dethroning Garrosh.


I agree that occupying the city isn't possible, neither side has that power. Then again I never actually argued for that, i just said that the Horde army wouldn't be bigger then the Alliance army after a civil war which is only logical.

As for Sylvanas getting to Stormwind that is laughable, there is no way for her to get there. Over land she would have to go past the dwarven lands and the Dark Horde lands which she cannot do. Over the sea she would have to punch through the Alliance navy which she can't do as her ships are half rotten ships she pulled from the water. Plus she would have to deal with the remaining human armies.

Also if she even tried she would have to send her entire army and if that happens then the Gilneas armies would be able to strike against her along with the remaining Scarlet Crusaders. So going that far south would be suicide for her.
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88 Blood Elf Paladin
7585
06/29/2012 08:43 AMPosted by Tabard
As for Sylvanas getting to Stormwind that is laughable, there is no way for her to get there. Over land she would have to go past the dwarven lands and the Dark Horde lands which she cannot do. Over the sea she would have to punch through the Alliance navy which she can't do as her ships are half rotten ships she pulled from the water. Plus she would have to deal with the remaining human armies.


With 1 portal a few troops and the Valkyr she'd make the army. The more she killed the more she could raise.
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100 Human Paladin
17195
06/29/2012 08:43 AMPosted by Tabard
i just said that the Horde army wouldn't be bigger then the Alliance army after a civil war which is only logical.


The Horde's army wasn't bigger than the Alliance's in the first place. Thrall managed to lead all his followers to Kalimdor on just a handful of stolen ships. This was followed by a decade of battles against an assortment of powerful enemies.

By the time the Cataclysm came about, Thrall reflected on the fact that most orcs were now either children or elders. So few orcs of fighting age remained that it was almost as if they'd lost an entire generation.
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91 Night Elf Druid
6055
The Horde's army wasn't bigger than the Alliance's in the first place. Thrall managed to lead all his followers to Kalimdor on just a handful of stolen ships. This was followed by a decade of battles against an assortment of powerful enemies.

By the time the Cataclysm came about, Thrall reflected on the fact that most orcs were now either children or elders. So few orcs of fighting age remained that it was almost as if they'd lost an entire generation.


And they lost an entire generation in Northrend. It really makes me wonder how the orcs can afford to field such massive armies. Unless they are literally breeding like rabbits and orc woman have litters, there's no way they have the population to support such aggressive armies.


Neither side can logically field the armies they are after fighting so many wars. However the "rule of cool" controls the Warcraft universe not reality. It was silly that they could continue to fight a year after the war in Northrend, actually having the war in cataclysm as well both sides should have almost no one of fighting age left alive.

So unless the armies fighting in Pandaria are hordes of child soldiers on both sides logic has not only been thrown out the window, but molested on the way out.
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90 Troll Rogue
9870


So your deaf to sarcasm arent ya?
ok my turn

As your axe strikes cleaves down garrosh'es arm, you find a sword in his chest, the man who asked you to provide a distraction had finally slain the traitor! but then, you see a dark gleam in his eye, as his king, Varian procliams "TODAY! WE SHALL END THE HORDE! TODAY WE BRING AZEROTH BACK TO THE WAY IT HAS BEEN! TODAY WE AVENGE OUR FALLEN!" and as you look, a feeling of dark despair overcomes you, the hordes once-mighty warships fall, destroyed by pinpoint cannon-fire, the your forsaken brothers writhe upon the ground, as a strange machine emates a blinding light, a light the sky will never see for a massive fleet of gunships now reveal themselves, the head of thrall, the once might world-shaman falling is the last thing you see, before a crystal mace ends your pitiful existance

now can we stop with the imagine this lines?


You started it. I just did a better job than you.

You manage to sneak fearfully in through the Horde's blitz on their occupied capital and strike down Garrosh, at the cost of many lives. Varian raises his sword in triumph, and is shot in the heart by a black arrow from Sylvanas' bow. You turn to see the reward for your actions: a vast throng of Orcs, Tauren, Trolls and Goblins descending on you. Their axes sever your limbs and the last thing you see before they have an ogre sit on your head to suffocate you is Varian having his jaw (And by extension, his chin) knocked off by Thrall's Doomhammer. Your pitiful human screams of horror are drowned out by the flab of the ogre's rump as you die in agony and shame.

It ends when we concede that this sort of thing will never happen and it's just, well, kinda mean to post stuff like this.


I laughed out loud at this.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
0
Watching the Horde rip itself apart would certainly be amusing, but I have a feeling the Orc Jesus will come down from his godhood for chiding us for having an actually interesting war.

Such is Blizzard, such is life.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
14910
It might not make sense now, but by the time the raid actually comes along it may be the only route that makes any sense at all.

What if, for example, towards the end of MoP it becomes apparent to the Alliance leadership that a massive Burning Legion invasion of Azeroth is imminent. Garrosh has to be removed from the equation as quickly as possible because his increasingly aggressive actions will make it virtually impossible to defend against this invasion.

Then Varian gets wind of a Horde insurrection against Garrosh. It seems there are elements within the Horde leadership that like Garrosh even less then Varian does. He knows that if he helps them overthrow Garrosh, fewer Alliance soldiers will die and the Horde will stand with the Alliance in defense of Azeroth when the Legion comes.

Under these conditions only a madman would attempt to fight the entire Horde when they didn't have to. Even if they achieve victory against the Horde (which they probably could considering the whole civil war thing), all they'd do is ensure Azeroth's complete annihilation in the long term.

Things like figuring out exactly where the boarder should be between Alliance and Horde lands is something best left to the diplomats once things start to cool off. And even if Varian doesn't believe the Horde will be able to keep away from Garrosh's ways for long, that's another battle that must be fought in it's own time, which is not when the Legion is on it's way.


I at least am sick of the Horde being let off the hook because of some bigger evil. If we aren't going to have a true reckoning between the Alliance and the Horde now, are we going to have to wait for the next war for their to be one? Frankly, there needs to be a reckoning. I'd rather have the entire Alliance wiped out, killed to the last man, woman, and child than spend the rest of WoW-life being told the Horde aren't that bad and we need to work with them, while the Horde continues to get away with murder, past and present.
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25 Blood Elf Paladin
0
If you believe that the imminent conclusion of the final raid of the Mists of Pandaria expansion is the Alliance running away then you need to re-evaluate what you believe would be a satisfactory conclusion to the Alliance.
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85 Human Mage
4460
06/29/2012 12:27 PMPosted by Vyrin
If you believe that the imminent conclusion of the final raid of the Mists of Pandaria expansion is the Alliance running away then you need to re-evaluate what you believe would be a satisfactory conclusion to the Alliance.


Now, on a serious note, I will agree with this. To be perfectly honest, I don't believe there will be a satisfactory conclusion to the raid no matter what.

For starters, it has thus far been confirmed Thrall returns as a result, which -no one- wants.

For the Horde, the Alliance is invading their capital and killing their Warchief. Tyrant or not, Garrosh is the Warchief, and all members of the Horde opposing him are oath-breakers and traitors. This is a sticky enough situation without being indebted to the Alliance on top of it all.

For the Alliance, it comes off as monumentally foolish to get involved in a Civil War at a time they are at War with the Horde. Even if Garrosh's death means the complete and total dissolution of the Horde and a new organization rising as a result of the numerous oath-breakings that will have to occur, it doesn't address the issues of all that has happened as a result of the war, nor does it absolve those Horde rebels of their past crimes against the Alliance. Holding Ogrimmar will be near impossible, and leaving it for the Horde is dumb.
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90 Orc Warrior
10290
As far I'm concerned, Alliance in Org die a miserable screaming death. The fact I'll actually be HELPING them raid Orgimmar (intentional or not)is sickening to me.
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85 Human Mage
4460
06/29/2012 12:48 PMPosted by Lochnar
As far I'm concerned, Alliance in Org die a miserable screaming death. The fact I'll actually be HELPING them raid Orgimmar (intentional or not)is sickening to me.


You'll also be an Oath Breaker, killing your own Warchief.
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85 Human Paladin
6185
06/29/2012 12:48 PMPosted by Lochnar
The fact I'll actually be HELPING them raid Orgimmar (intentional or not)is sickening to me

Dude it´s all so you can get rid of Garrosh and have Go´el back on the throne. At least you will get something out of the fight.
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99 Troll Hunter
13620
I'm waiting for the right time to chime in here, but all I can see from horizon to horizon in this thread are Alliance... Complaining.

06/29/2012 07:12 AMPosted by Elenie
2) Immediate Withdrawal of all Armed and/or Civilian Forces from Sovereign Territories of the Alliance, its members, and its member-states. This includes: Gilneas, Ashenvale, Feralas, Azshara, Dustwallow Marsh, Arathi Highlands, the Hinterlands, the Twilight Highlands, Hillsbrad, Gilneas, Silverpine, Tirisfal Glades, Capital City (Undercity), the Western Plaguelands, the Swamp of Sorrows, the Blasted Lands, the Bael Modan Excavation Site in the Southern Barrens, the Ghostlands, Eversong Woods, Silvermoon City, and Quel'Danas.

Hell, half of these don't rightfully belong to the Alliance anymore, even if they did once. Azshara, Tirisfal, Eversong, Ghostlands, Silverpine, have held no real connection to the Alliance for a number of years, with Azshara being unconnected to the Night Elves for over 10,000 years.

Other places like the Blasted Lands and Swamp of Sorrows and Twilight Highlands never had any connections to anymore, all mostly claimed by nature except the Highlands, where the Dragonmaw lived before the Wildhammer Dwarves truly joined the Alliance.

And, as much as I don't want this debate to start again, the Alliance doesn't belong in Bael Modan either if Gann Stonespire was correct in that they wiped out an entire Tauren Tribe to set up shop there.

Isn't defeating our capital and taking out the Warchief enough?

And, no, I don't expect Alliance and Horde to work together in the raid. The raids should, and likely will be, separate for each faction.
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