Question for Alliance Players(Mop Spoilers)

100 Night Elf Priest
17460
Its easy to call Thrall a murderer for what his troops do when you're on the Alliance's side... Its probably insanely hard to be a Warchief in the post 3rd war events though. The Orcs are just barely standing back up from all the conflict they went through, but they still get stuck in a struggle for resources as Durotar isn't very game-heavy, and the Horde races aren't used to agriculture after getting cut from the spiritual past (in fact, if I remember correctly, I don't think there are many fields in Draenor for the orcs to cultivate either). The Horde needs resources quickly, and the Night elves are reluctant to give anything. Horde gets impatient, gets resources on their own, angers Night elves while Jaina unsuccessfully tries to promote peaceful relationships. Then there are the Forsaken, whom he must keep a leash on, which must be tightened after the events of the Wrath gate.

I'm actually not that surprised he jumped on the opportunity to become the world shaman. Finally he could do something good without fearing his decisions backfiring!

And then Garrosh happened.
Edited by Resileaf on 6/29/2012 11:23 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Shaman
10525
06/29/2012 11:37 PMPosted by Kynrind
The way this war is being pushed and fought, absolute victory is the only logical outcome.


I'm not going to get into a shouting match. You can say "no" all you want, because my response will be "no" in return. "Absolute victory is the only logical outcome" if you want it to be. I have seen other logical outcomes suggested.

06/29/2012 11:37 PMPosted by Kynrind
There isn't any way to make this war end on good terms for the Alliance.


The above is used synonymously with "There isn't any way to make this war end on terms that I think are acceptable to my view of how things should go." I guarantee ANY outcome short of complete and utter annihilation of the Horde would be met with half a dozen posters telling us why the end wasn't "on good terms" for the Alliance. Hell, I guarantee that there would be some even if the end WERE the utter annihilation of the Horde.

It's all a bunch of ill-informed, unimaginative factionwank.

06/29/2012 11:37 PMPosted by Kynrind
The best it can hope for is a stalemate or a ceasefire where the battle lines are now. Which leaves the Alliance at a severe disadvantage and the Horde at a significant advantage.


And this is the heart of the matter. Any outcome short of utter annihilation will be perceived as a loss for the Alliance and a win for the Horde. Gimme a break.
Edited by Iyotanka on 6/29/2012 11:56 PM PDT
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Its easy to call Thrall a murderer for what his troops do when you're on the Alliance's side... Its probably insanely hard to be a Warchief in the post 3rd war events though. The Orcs are just barely standing back up from all the conflict they went through, but they still get stuck in a struggle for resources as Durotar isn't very game-heavy, and the Horde races aren't used to agriculture after getting cut from the spiritual past (in fact, if I remember correctly, I don't think there are many fields in Draenor for the orcs to cultivate either). The Horde needs resources quickly, and the Night elves are reluctant to give anything. Horde gets impatient, gets resources on their own, angers Night elves while Jaina unsuccessfully tries to promote peaceful relationships. Then there are the Forsaken, whom he must keep a leash on, which must be tightened after the events of the Wrath gate.

I'm actually not that surprised he jumped on the opportunity to become the world shaman. Finally he could do something good without fearing his decisions backfiring!

And then Garrosh happened.

And? Ashenvale and it's resources belong to the Night Elves. If they choose not to trade them to the Orcs, that is their right.

If Thrall decides to attack the Night Elves and take the lumber by force, then that just shows he's a hypocrite who only supports peaceful resolutions when it benefits him.
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90 Tauren Shaman
10525
06/29/2012 11:53 PMPosted by Arberus
who only supports peaceful resolutions when it benefits him


You're being disingenuous.
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06/29/2012 11:54 PMPosted by Iyotanka
who only supports peaceful resolutions when it benefits him


You're being disingenuous.

How so? It was shown in the comics that Thrall was aware of and supported the Orc campaign in Ashenvale even before Garrosh took over.
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90 Tauren Shaman
10525
How so? It was shown in the comics that Thrall was aware of and supported the Orc campaign in Ashenvale even before Garrosh took over.


"who only supports peaceful resolutions when it benefits him"

Your characterization of him is off and indicates either a purposeful misrepresentation of him (being disingenuous) or ignorance.
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90 Tauren Shaman
10525
06/30/2012 12:03 AMPosted by Lancalor
How? he never apologises for open attacks on alliance terriortory, for example, Ashenvale, Alterac Valley, Gilneas, Lorderon,


And therefore he "only supports peaceful resolutions when it benefits him"? We know that he's attempted peaceful resolutions in the past and suggesting that he ONLY does so when it benefits him neglects most of Cataclysm's unfortunate Thrall-centric storyline.

If you can't see the problem with that, then there's little I can do to help you.
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90 Tauren Shaman
10525
06/30/2012 12:09 AMPosted by Lancalor
he doesnt support peaceful resolutions only when he benefits from it


Then we agree. We know this isn't the case so the other poster's assertion that it was was either disingenuous or ignorant.

EDIT: I guess the poster could also have misspoken, but that seems unlikely.
Edited by Iyotanka on 6/30/2012 12:13 AM PDT
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90 Orc Warrior
10290
06/30/2012 12:03 AMPosted by Lancalor


You're being disingenuous.


How? he never apologises for open attacks on alliance terriortory, for example.


Ashenvale


A legit point......the only one though

Alterac Valley
PLEASE tell me you're not referring to the battleground. The ONLY person on EITHER side that sees AV as Alliance territory is Vandarr Stormpike.

Gilneas
How's Thrall gonna apologize for something that didn't happen on his watch?

Lordareon
Newflash: Lordareon has been Forsaken territory since WCIII TFT, it's been Horde territory since the beginning of WoW. That's the cold hard fact.
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90 Tauren Shaman
10525
06/30/2012 12:16 AMPosted by Lochnar
A legit point......the only one though


Only legit as far as "he doesn't apologize for it", though. The point to which it was responding was not legitimate, though. And even then that could simply be because the apology part of things isn't really part of orc culture. His lack of apology is in no way an indication that he only sues for peace when it suits him.

It would be like saying Varian only looks for peaceful resolutions when it suits him because he didn't apologize for the attack on Taurajo.

That's absurd. Of course Varian seeks peaceful resolutions, even when it doesn't suit him. (note: this does not mean he won't seek more aggressive, less peaceful resolutions if the need arises.)

(edit: Perhaps replacing Varian with Jaina is more appropriate as the soldiers were technically hers)
Edited by Iyotanka on 6/30/2012 12:22 AM PDT
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90 Orc Warrior
10290
however lorderon was never forsaken territory, it was a illegal invasion following treachery against Grand Marshal Garithos, who willingly helped the forsaken to defeat the scourge, only to have them attack and kill him, due to garithos leading the forces at that time, alliance refugees and other forces have the legal claim to Lorderon


I never said it was LEGAL.....hell I never said it was HONORABLE.....it simply IS Horde territory...even it was by hook and crook.
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90 Orc Warrior
10290
06/30/2012 12:38 AMPosted by Lancalor


I never said it was LEGAL.....hell I never said it was HONORABLE.....it simply IS Horde territory...even it was by hook and crook.


Thats like saying france was german territory during world war II


It WAS. Especially under the Vichy regime.
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