Tirion Fordring needs to die.

90 Undead Rogue
8890
07/02/2012 10:19 AMPosted by Krenkarn
I think it's quite likely we'll get to see both Sylvanas and Garrosh bite it in Mists. And I am extremely excited by this.


Why are people constantly clinging to this idea Garrosh or Sylvanas are going to die in Mists? Nobody has confirmed that major lore characters will be biting the bullet at all, but apparently it's always fabricated out of thin air.

Garrosh likely won't be killed, but he will definitely not be Warchief by the time his "raid" comes up.

Sylvanas won't be dying anytime soon because she's one of the most popular Warcraft characters out there and not to mention there has been almost zero story progression about her and the affairs of the Scourge / Val'kyr since early Cataclysm. If Sylvanas is going to die, we likely have another whole expansion before it happens.
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90 Undead Rogue
8300
I don't know about clinging, but I'm certainly hoping. It would be more interesting than the usual corruption/redemption arc for Garrosh over the course of one expansion pack, and Garrosh's personality has never been sufficiently interesting enough for me to think we should keep him around so I can see where it goes.

I'm more ambivalent about Sylvanas because there doesn't really seem to be a good replacement for her as an in-game leader. The Forsaken would wind up with the equivalent of a Gallywix.
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90 Undead Rogue
8890
Garrosh won't be redeemed. I will bet he'll stay alive just to be an example of poor leadership to the Horde. Thrall seldom has the courage to actually kill his brethren, especially the Orc he appointed as Warchief before he set off to become a better Shaman. More than likely Garrosh will get a serious slap in the face courtesy of us players and partnering up with the Horde leadership a'la Battle for Undercity to put Garrosh back down to Earth. Unless Garrosh actually rips Jaina Proudmoore's head off during Mists, he has little reason to actually be executed. Thrown out as Warchief? Yes, but he hardly deserves death.
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90 Undead Rogue
8300
We've been told in preview materials that he's committing some sort of war crimes, and it's the nature of those crimes that makes both the Horde and Alliance join forces to bring him down.

If that's the case, things may become very tricky. Depending on how Blizzard plays it, they may be so bad that it becomes a problem if he doesn't get executed for the matter. We'll have to wait and see.
Edited by Jirargh on 7/2/2012 11:21 AM PDT
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100 Draenei Paladin
6965
FORSAKEN CHAIN.

C-C-C-COMBOBREAKER
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100 Blood Elf Warlock
9805
us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5978120793
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85 Blood Elf Rogue
6040
I disagree with the idea that Tirion was nothing but a plot device. After reading Blood and Honor, I made a point of seeking out his quest chain with every character I took through the plaguelands, and seeing the story play out from redeeming his son, all the way through Wrath was, in my opinion, one of the better written quest chains that WoW had to offer.

I personally find it a shame that they removed that chain, although I understand why they did, and since they DID remove it, I am NEVER deleting my Mark of Fordring. My main will carry that with her until Azeroth finally gets swallowed by the Maelstrom.

And what precisely is wrong with an old man, who's fought wars that he was tired of years ago, finally retiring, and trying to rebuild the lands he loved that bear the scars of those wars? For one thing, he was exiled for speaking out against Eitrigg's (sp?) attempted murder by the Alliance, so it's not like he can just go back to Stormwind, unless they lifted his exile while I was away for a year. Better for him to go into a semi-quiet retirement so that he can create something good to leave behind when he DOES finally die.

And I hate that Cairne was killed off too, especially by something as low as a poisoned weapon. That's just cheap, and I can't WAIT to be able to smash Garrosh's face in (or in my case, sever his spine) in payment for being the tool used to kill off one of my favourite characters.
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100 Blood Elf Rogue
13225
I'll never forget that one dude in the WOTLK beta who was going OFF about bolivar and how he would go stand near him and looked up to him as a father figure.

I would say the same for myself and Tirion though it's more of a grandfather figure or maybe a creepy uncle.
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92 Goblin Warlock
7350
07/02/2012 04:48 AMPosted by Emmberr
So I believe Tirion Fordring should be killed for ruining his image by becoming the hero Azeroth didn't deserve, instead of becoming the heroic human Azeroth really needed. Tell me why you agree or disagree, WrA.


"This character isn't relevent to this expansion/I don't like him, so let's kill him off."


You didn't say if you agreed or disagreed with my opinion, or why.

Many characters are like this, sadly. Like Aggra. She had so much potential to become an awesome character.

Instead, she became an annoying plot device whose sole purpose was to make Thrall babies.

It upset me greatly. I think Blizzard needs to hire some new writers.


Yup.

He defeated the Lich King and now he has retired to Hearthglen. If he were a superhero, like the OP claims, he'd mount a dragon and go after Deathwing. The fact that he's moved on to something else is precisely the opposite of making him just a plot device. He had an actual story arc.

He was a forgotten man in vanilla and BC, handing out a handful of quests to wandering visitors.

He was drawn into, and led the fight, against Arthas.

He defeated Arthas.

Now in Cata, he retired to rest after a magnificent battle, while rebuilding his city (which had been overrun by the Scarlet Crusade) and leading a new generation of warriors.

Will we see him again? Why not? Who is to say we're done with Tirion? Maybe the great war to come will require a neutral voice -- particularly when Jaina loses it. Maybe we will need a uniting voice to call all sides to arms against Garrosh. Maybe he will be there to help pick up the pieces before 6.0.

Whatever the case, the OP is wrong. Otherwise, I guess Aragorn was just a plot device, because he eventually settled into a nice kingdom with his bride.


I like how you think. You opposed my opinion with your own. Thank you.

Now explain to me why he retired. Explain to me why he thought it would be okay to just quit when the world needed him most. Why would the hero of the Argent Crusade retire? Thrall was torn into four pieces and spread across Azeroth, but he's still saving the world. Alexstrasza was imprisoned and used to give birth to war dragons, but she's still saving the world. Malfurion was asleep for how many centuries? He's still saving the world. What gives Tirion the right to just quit?

He wouldn't work in Cata. That's why. He was built to be used in WotLK and no where else. As someone else said earlier, he was a one-expansion character. Or, as I've said many times before, a plot device.
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92 Goblin Warlock
7350
07/02/2012 08:51 AMPosted by Víncentus
I'm not sure how many times you can say "He is a plot device" in one essay. I think I get it.

Thank you for agreeing or disagreeing with my position and telling me why.
Aerstole uses Wall of Text! It's super-effective!

I don't think I did. :C I think you mistook "wall of text" for "long post."

07/02/2012 09:32 AMPosted by Kalad
Also, do you even know why they super size character on raids (Including mobs, npcs and bosses)? Because I don't think you do.

To make them more important? I really do not see the necessity of super sizing quest/raid starters. I can see them just fine, normally. I agree with your "one-expansion character" point though.

07/02/2012 09:52 AMPosted by Sholaad
Could not have said it better myself.


Tell me what you think.

07/02/2012 10:19 AMPosted by Krenkarn
Tirion Fordring is actually serving a very useful purpose. He's still valid and useful to the game, because he's living, breathing proof that after climbing that damn mountain and throwing down your enemy ... you don't have to stay up there and be the next raid boss. You can go home, try to pick up the pieces, retire even.


I talked about retiring in my previous post. If you wouldn't mind, read that and tell me how you feel about it.
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92 Goblin Warlock
7350
07/02/2012 04:16 PMPosted by Silverskye
And what precisely is wrong with an old man, who's fought wars that he was tired of years ago, finally retiring, and trying to rebuild the lands he loved that bear the scars of those wars?


I talked about retiring in my previous post. You can refer to it in your response.

Mostly, age doesn't seem to have a big impact on characters in WoW. Velen is older than dirt, (almost literally), but he's still leading. Saurfang is grey, but he's still in action. He's maybe around 60? He's a paladin. He hasn't aged much since Northrend. You can't pull the age card, because there are plenty of healthy older men and women active in WoW and RL. It's not impossible to swing a sword at his age.
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90 Draenei Paladin
13125
07/02/2012 07:14 PMPosted by Aerstole
Now explain to me why he retired.


You gave a good list of heroes who all suffered a great deal while pressing on... But I think there's a few simple reasons why Tirion wasn't starring in this expansion, if I may.

1.) Every expansion will have a great evil. Tirion Fordring doesn't have to be at the helm on all of the conflicts. While he is a great bastion of good, we shouldn't have to rely on him to save us every expansion.

2.) The Plaguelands is still covered in plague and Scourge. Tirion and the Crusade (many of which are Dawn) wouldn't abandon their original mission when it still isn't finished. They seem to be the type to see a mission through to the very end, when the last Scourge is dead and the last vestiges of the Cult of the Damned are wiped from the planet, and when Lordaeron is back to the way it was.

3.) Tirion's suffered to. He had his titles and life taken from him for standing by his beliefs, having to watch his entire homeland turn into a wasteland, ultimately coming to watch his son die right in front of him, in his arms even. Tirion's done a lot of good in the world for a man his age... And he's not getting any younger. Tirion might not be long for this world, and it would be fitting if he could finally have some semblance of peace in his life before it ends.

You might be right in saying Tirion isn't a character for Cataclysm, but, really, it seems as if the writing made it so that Thrall was the only character for Cataclysm. It shouldn't be a fault of Tirion that the writing that's circulating around Thrall.

All that said, I believe Tirion's capable of coming out again.

I'd say the same thing about Thrall, who seems to be wanting to take the same route Tirion has (thus far) taken, wanting to live a peaceful life now that he's had his time to shine. Thrall wants to have a family, to live in peace with his friends. Does that mean he should be killed? I wouldn't say so.
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90 Draenei Paladin
13125
07/02/2012 07:24 PMPosted by Aerstole
Saurfang is grey, but he's still in action


Saurfang may as well be in retirement as well. From what I understand, he's in Warsong Hold, where the war has all but stopped.
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92 Goblin Warlock
7350
07/02/2012 04:15 PMPosted by Pai
us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5978120793


I'm going to pretend your blood elf (I assume she's a blood elf and not some mutant Sunwell-born freak) doesn't actually have golden eyes.
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90 Human Paladin
11695
Karob liked this post.
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100 Blood Elf Warlock
9805
07/02/2012 08:32 PMPosted by Aerstole
us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5978120793


I'm going to pretend your blood elf (I assume she's a blood elf and not some mutant Sunwell-born freak) doesn't actually have golden eyes.

Just as High Elves have blue eyes, and Blood Elves green, hers are golden to match the type of magic she is dependent upon. Wowpedia even states that Blood Elf eyes are silver until they eventually turn green from their Fel abuse...
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92 Goblin Warlock
7350
07/02/2012 09:13 PMPosted by Pai


I'm going to pretend your blood elf (I assume she's a blood elf and not some mutant Sunwell-born freak) doesn't actually have golden eyes.

Just as High Elves have blue eyes, and Blood Elves green, hers are golden to match the type of magic she is dependent upon. Wowpedia even states that Blood Elf eyes are silver until they eventually turn green from their Fel abuse...


I vomited a little.

Okay, Pai, I'm sending you my response in-game so I don't send this thread careening off track.
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85 Troll Death Knight
3675
Sure. You'll get two Emblems of Frost and 26 gold for doing it.
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