Server First Ragnaros Kill

90 Orc Warlock
10110
Yes, congrats on the realm first.

Pity you had to bring some friends from another server for a prior tier of content. I guess that entitles you to bragging rights now?
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85 Orc Warlock
8820
Pity you had to bring some friends from another server for a prior tier of content. I guess that entitles you to bragging rights now?


Night Sirens did the final kill with 5 Current Sirens, 2 Previous Sirens and 3 "Friends" of Sirens from off server.

When we started in the begging of the week we had 8/10 Siren Members, but after 4 days of 5 hour grinds a few of us (Myself) had to take a night off. Our Guild Master still wanted to try attempts so she pulled two people off server to fill my spot and another players because we had no one else to make an attempt that night. It just so happened that was the night they killed Ragnoros.

So yes, Sirens had 5/10 by some standards, 7/10 by others. Sirens got the kill because the member who had never been a Siren in the past joined the guild and made it 8/10.

I really think the topic of the forum should be about...

    Are off server players better than Sister of Elune players?

    A Guild is just a group of people who enjoying playing together, is it fair for a "Guild Achievement" to be accomplished using friends of members that are in the Guild?

    It's common for Guilds not to complete Final Bosses on Heroic before the next patch/expansion on SoE, is it even a realm first after so many nerfs?

    If Blizzard allows pulling members from elsewhere, then should you be upset with players or Blizzard? Maybe both?

    Should we black mark any Guild who recruits someone who has completed the content that a Guild is still in progression on?

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85 Orc Warlock
8820
    Also, what time span do you guys feel that a member must be in a Guild before they are considered a Guild "Member" and not off server "Carry-me-plox"? A day, A week? a month, 3 months?

    Does a "Guild First" by your standards mean each player in the group should have never completed the progression content before hand?
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5 Worgen Hunter
0
Are off server players better than Sister of Elune players?

Maybe not initially but the ratio on other servers makes it easier to prosper as a player.

A Guild is just a group of people who enjoying playing together, is it fair for a "Guild Achievement" to be accomplished using friends of members that are in the Guild?

Is it fair for other people on the server? I don't believe it is, it turns a guild/realm achivement a bit stale

It's common for Guilds not to complete Final Bosses on Heroic before the next patch/expansion on SoE, is it even a realm first after so many nerfs?


What isn't as common is the realm first being claimed almost a year and a half after the raid is out. 7 Month into the next tier.And it obviously means it was far easier than when it was considered current content.

If Blizzard allows pulling members from elsewhere, then should you be upset with players or Blizzard? Maybe both?

They should definatly be upset, but pulling other members off-server should not be the main reason to be upset. I mean working towards something for months and that getting swooped away would be quite frustrating. And also working towards it in a way that you felt was more legit.

Should we black mark any Guild who recruits someone who has completed the content that a Guild is still in progression on?


I don't think this is relevant, the only reason this has made drama is the response from you guys and the original thread that was made, otherwise this would of been lost in everyone's memory. But to answer the question, no there is just no reason. BUT if we're talking about current content if a guild transfers over here after they had the last boss on farm and just swoops away guild first, now that a different story

Also, what time span do you guys feel that a member must be in a Guild before they are considered a Guild "Member" and not off server "Carry-me-plox"? A day, A week? a month, 3 months?

Easy, were they part of progression or did they already have everything done? It's not a matter of time it's their skill/gear level.

Does a "Guild First" by your standards mean each player in the group should have never completed the progression content before hand?

I would like to see that. I mean a while back I almost paid an off-server guild to run me through heroic firelands. I'm pretty sure if I would of been the only person with heroic firelands on the server, let alone server first, it would of been a little trouble.

So yeah I basically say grats to you guys. But i don't think anyone but yourselves will consider it was a truly legit kill. And really you should be saying "!@#$ em'" But do it in G-chat not so everyone just picks you guys apart, let it go.

EDIT: Yeah this is rampard, I thought the follow-up post made that clear but I guess someone had to point it out.
Edited by Paulom on 8/10/2012 3:07 PM PDT
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90 Orc Warlock
10110
Are off server players better than Sister of Elune players?

Not initially, back when I played on Sisters of Elune I raided with some exception players. It's not surprising to see them still on the server in exceptional guilds. But there are better players than all of us on other servers.

A Guild is just a group of people who enjoying playing together, is it fair for a "Guild Achievement" to be accomplished using friends of members that are in the Guild?

Is it fair to the people who spend time, oh I don't know, learning all the other heroic boss fights and actually clearing the raid to get to a final boss? Nope, not really. I would rather earn my achievement then by asking friends to help me skip half the challenge.

It's common for Guilds not to complete Final Bosses on Heroic before the next patch/expansion on SoE, is it even a realm first after so many nerfs?

With the way the question is worded, yes it guess it would still be considered a "realm first". But then again it loses it's value to get to after all the nerfs and the increased ilvl of your raiders.

If Blizzard allows pulling members from elsewhere, then should you be upset with players or Blizzard? Maybe both?

If Blizzard really allowed this, then shouldn't you be doing it to clear H DS? Oh wait, you can't right? You needed to do it to clear content from a prior tier.

Should we black mark any Guild who recruits someone who has completed the content that a Guild is still in progression on?

I agree with Paulom on this one. It was your overall responses to things that really caused any drama. The "Oh, we're just as good and these other guilds", or "Another guild other than Apples, claimed a realm first." I'm sure that Apples hasn't claimed every realm first in it's existence. Maybe since Wrath, but probably not before that.

I see nothing wrong with recruiting players to with experience. But to do so, already use a cleared lockout and swoop in for the kill seems to be like you're trying to cut corners, doesn't it?

Also, what time span do you guys feel that a member must be in a Guild before they are considered a Guild "Member" and not off server "Carry-me-plox"? A day, A week? a month, 3 months?

Simple, did you just invite them to make it a guild achievement, or did they work with you to clear the content? Did you just invite them to the guild before your first pull with them or starting clearing trash?

Does a "Guild First" by your standards mean each player in the group should have never completed the progression content before hand?

No, a "Guild First" by my standard means each player in the group should be in the same guild. No off server friends that overshadow and outgear you to carrying you through the fight should something happen during the attempt.

I'm sorry, but this really isn't a legit kill. If you feel proud of yourselves, then you can give yourself a pat on the back. But when another guild actually clears the way to Rag from start to finish and kills him, at least they would have earned it.
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85 Orc Warlock
8820
    Should we black mark any Guild who recruits someone who has completed the content that a Guild is still in progression on?

    I agree with Paulom on this one. It was your overall responses to things that really caused any drama. The "Oh, we're just as good and these other guilds", or "Another guild other than Apples, claimed a realm first." I'm sure that Apples hasn't claimed every realm first in it's existence. Maybe since Wrath, but probably not before that.


This I totally understand and I could say I that I want to apologize for the players that made these comments but I honestly can't do that for them. Our Guild Master is sorry, I am sorry for what those players were saying while under the Siren tag. We did get a few of them to change their posts. Being a Officer in Sirens I'm informed that we did deal with these players and if you have any others issues with them please, let me know in game through mail/whispers. I'm really open to what's going on with our members and I do my best not be bias towards non-guild members opinions.

    Also, what time span do you guys feel that a member must be in a Guild before they are considered a Guild "Member" and not off server "Carry-me-plox"? A day, A week? a month, 3 months?

    Simple, did you just invite them to make it a guild achievement, or did they work with you to clear the content? Did you just invite them to the guild before your first pull with them or starting clearing trash?



Our first 4 nights we were 8/10 Sirens and saw rags to 10% or so into the last phase. The final night when I was not available along with 1 other player our Guild Master made the decision to bring two players through real ID into raid (Both of our Healers were gone) and invited a transfer into the Guild to make it 8/10 instead of 7. I don't want this to be a hidden fact, as of the "Final" kill Sirens was 7/10 members. 80% of our attempts were with 8/10 Sirens through the 5 days we attempted it.

I am one to hope that Blizzard could possibly make it so that a Realm First requires 10 characters who have not killed the boss and have completed all prior bosses for the Realm first to apply. Our Guild Master really wanted to down a Heroic Ragnoros. Any other server what we did would be fine at this point since other Guilds/Group would have already downed Heroic Ragnoros months before...but since it's such a low progressions server it's almost if we weren't aloud to just pull a group together (As in non-Guild members as well)because no one else on the server had done it yet.

I find it unfair that because I rolled on a low population low progression server that I must wait for a group of 10 people who have been taking three times as long as other servers to complete content before I'm even allowed to attempt it with a group of my choosing. I'm not talking about just one Guild, but any Guild/Pug on the server that has attempted this. I wanted to take on Ragnoros, I wanted to try Heroic Ragnoros - it sucks that I was on a server that hadn't done it yet. That's my own opinion as I do wish a Guild DID get the achievement through normal progression so I could go in an attempt myself without the Realm first morality being in the way.

I really do respect other players on this server, but I am here to play the game and pixels I don't even know on the same server in a different guild/no guild shouldn't determine what content I can and can't do. My goal and most raiders goal is to find a solid group of 10/25 that can complete content in a timely and well organized manner. I know some people are all about achievements and I'm very sorry that it is no longer available to the Realm. Once again, I don't want a Blizzard achievement blocking my reasons for attempting a fight with players inside/out of the Guild. I pay 15 dollars a month, I should be able to use all the in-game resources to complete an encounter. My only options were to leave my friends and join a higher progressions Guild on the server or transfer off server where the encounter has already been complted so my kill wouldn't reflect so largely on other players I don't know.

These players have been dealt with to my knowledge and any future issues I'd like to be aware of.

You can mail me on Grumpius, Alliance or Leonarius, Horde.
Edited by Leonarius on 7/26/2012 6:02 PM PDT
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85 Orc Warlock
8820
I think people are not upset about this because they think they all NS players are bad players, but that only three NS players were even in the group. Any semi-decent players could get a group of 7 other people from other servers to help carry them through H Rag when they barely have 4/8H down (not including Rag).

It was 5 current members, 2 previous members and 3 randoms to clarify @ Pekkekke.
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85 Orc Warrior
2860
Are off server players better than Sister of Elune players?

Maybe not initially but the ratio on other servers makes it easier to prosper as a player.

A Guild is just a group of people who enjoying playing together, is it fair for a "Guild Achievement" to be accomplished using friends of members that are in the Guild?

Is it fair for other people on the server? I don't believe it is, it turns a guild/realm achivement a bit stale

It's common for Guilds not to complete Final Bosses on Heroic before the next patch/expansion on SoE, is it even a realm first after so many nerfs?


What isn't as common is the realm first being claimed almost a year and a half after the raid is out. 7 Month into the next tier.And it obviously means it was far easier than when it was considered current content.

If Blizzard allows pulling members from elsewhere, then should you be upset with players or Blizzard? Maybe both?

They should definatly be upset, but pulling other members off-server should not be the main reason to be upset. I mean working towards something for months and that getting swooped away would be quite frustrating. And also working towards it in a way that you felt was more legit.

Should we black mark any Guild who recruits someone who has completed the content that a Guild is still in progression on?


I don't think this is relevant, the only reason this has made drama is the response from you guys and the original thread that was made, otherwise this would of been lost in everyone's memory. But to answer the question, no there is just no reason. BUT if we're talking about current content if a guild transfers over here after they had the last boss on farm and just swoops away guild first, now that a different story

Also, what time span do you guys feel that a member must be in a Guild before they are considered a Guild "Member" and not off server "Carry-me-plox"? A day, A week? a month, 3 months?

Easy, were they part of progression or did they already have everything done? It's not a matter of time it's their skill/gear level.

Does a "Guild First" by your standards mean each player in the group should have never completed the progression content before hand?

I would like to see that. I mean a while back I almost paid an off-server guild to run me through heroic firelands. I'm pretty sure if I would of been the only person with heroic firelands on the server, let alone server first, it would of been a little trouble.

So yeah I basically say grats to you guys. But i don't think anyone but yourselves will consider it was a truly legit kill. And really you should be saying "!@#$ em'" But do it in G-chat not so everyone just picks you guys apart, let it go.

Posting on lowbie alts = invalid opinion. No one cares what you think if you're not a stakeholder.
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85 Human Warlock
8080
07/26/2012 11:26 PMPosted by Arctroni
Posting on lowbie alts = invalid opinion. No one cares what you think if you're not a stakeholder.


I really don't see how a forum alt would invalidate his opinion, because here it wasn't an issue about raiding. Just seems really pretentious to me to invalidate someone's opinion just because you feel like that he's not a "Stakeholder". Take apart the argument, voice your opinion. Also, I think that was one of the more respectful posts in this thread or the previous one.

Have a nice day, hopefully we can see Leonarius post more instead of you.
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90 Orc Warlock
10110
07/26/2012 11:26 PMPosted by Arctroni
Posting on lowbie alts = invalid opinion. No one cares what you think if you're not a stakeholder.


Nice to see such representation of a guild. Keep it up, I already respect Leonarius much more than you.
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85 Orc Warrior
2860
Quite pretentious of you to think that I came to the server looking for respect.
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90 Orc Warlock
10110
At what point did I say I thought you came to the server looking for it?
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85 Human Warlock
8080
08/02/2012 09:35 PMPosted by Arctroni
Quite pretentious of you to think that I came to the server looking for respect.


No I was simply saying that it was a respectful post. Now if you don't want people to have a good opinion of you, more power to you. That still doesn't give you green light to disregard others.
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5 Tauren Warrior
0
It's official!!!!

Night Sirens > SoE Horde Community

Haters gonna hate.
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90 Orc Warlock
10110
It's official!!!!

Night Sirens > SoE Horde Community

Haters gonna hate.


Nah, if they were really great they would at least be 8/8H DS. I mean it IS the current tier of raiding.

Oh wait, I forgot that you can't cross-realm that raid yet. My bad.
Edited by Daegun on 8/4/2012 3:24 PM PDT
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1 Blood Elf Warrior
0
Kill him again.
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90 Human Warrior
11065
Its fun reading all this talk. <...I dont see the big deal anywhos....oooohhhhh server first on a RP server and a low pop one at that...oooohhhhh. I was just happy to see one go out to another guild. Its a horde guild that nabbed it shouldn't you all be happy happy joy joy that it wasnt one of us Ally scum.
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90 Undead Warlock
14895
I'll reiterate.

The server first was technically fair. And I congratulate Dungeon Team on it. Many grats as well to the people who brought their lockout to SoE, that was a masterstroke.

Tell Silv that Mal says grats.

Go Night Sirens!
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71 Human Death Knight
9740
08/01/2012 12:39 AMPosted by Rampard
Posting on lowbie alts = invalid opinion. No one cares what you think if you're not a stakeholder.


I really don't see how a forum alt would invalidate his opinion


Rampard
85 Human Warlock
Fallen Lords
8070
sisters-of-elune:
paulom rampard

Just gonna leave this right here.
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