Why hasn't there been an uproar?

90 Draenei Shaman
6755
expansions are balanced on the backs of healers ultimately. You'll get used to it and it probably has to be this way anyway.
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/shrug The Cata changes made me a better Druid, healer, and a better player because I had to learn the finer aspects of my class in order to perform better. Instead of spamming WG, I had to work in my other spells and make the most of my Talents. I didn't like the changes at first, but I adapted and upped my game.

I enjoy a challenge though. Some people don't. I don't know what to say to those people except, try to have a positive attitude about it and give it a try. Blizz can always change it later if it doesn't work. (And we know they do that - from past experience.)

Also, who gives a damn if their mana pool is bigger, seriously? I couldn't even tell you how big my mana pool is without looking at my armory profile. What matters is how you manage your mana while maximizing healing. It's not a sword fight; put the ruler away and zip up your shorts already. Lol

PS I was in LFR on the Madness fight one time with a fellow R Druid that blew every healing cd they had on the first (green) platform to take their hps to 22k, then they were oom already on the 2nd platform. He/She started calling out for us to Innervate/HoH, etc and nobody did it. When we wiped on the 3rd platform for whatever reason, he started yelling about why wouldn't the other healers use their regen cds when the "top healer" was oom. I was soooo annoyed. All I said though was lol L2managemana. I still feel really annoyed when I think back on that incident. He/She was from Lightbringer btw. So many negative experiences with jerks from there.
Edited by Phaydre on 7/23/2012 8:13 AM PDT
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90 Worgen Priest
4530
I'm looking forward to static mana pools. Some of the most fun I've had healing are the times where my mana was running desperately low and I had to make rapid decisions about triage. It's an adrenaline rush when a mana drought is rushing straight towards you.
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85 Troll Druid
7680
I'm not sure how these changes are going to do when it comes to leveling healers.. There is not alot of spirit gear at low levels. Am I expected to just run oom all the time on a lowbie because I have no mana regen from spirit? or is it balanced differently at that level? or are they adding spirit to more low level drops? Anyone know anything about this? :\

What about dps that use mana? Are they expected to have spirit on their gear to regen mana as well? Wouldn't that make gearing clothie healers harder than it already is?

Sorry if I sound uninformed, it's because I am lol. If anyone could clarify that would be wonderful!
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90 Blood Elf Priest
14480
07/29/2012 09:15 PMPosted by Shiraela
If anyone could clarify that would be wonderful!


Low-level balance isn't a particularly big priority. That being said, low-level players are ridonkulously overpowered compared to the PvE content they're facing, so I doubt they'll really suffer from this change.

Dps that use mana don't manage it as a resource the way healers do, with the exception of arcane mages. Running out of mana isn't a concern for them.
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90 Troll Druid
14565
07/12/2012 01:27 PMPosted by Obliquatur
have been appropriately balanced to address the change.


I laughed....a lot
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90 Worgen Druid
4810
07/30/2012 04:06 PMPosted by Bitterleaf
have been appropriately balanced to address the change.


I laughed....a lot


Have you healed on the beta yet? I think mana feels quite similar to the beginning of Cataclysm related to leveling dungeons and heroics. There were times in normal raids that I felt a little "behind" where it felt like I should be, but that was most likely just from not playing optimally (and not having optimal raid groups)
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85 Troll Druid
7680
07/29/2012 09:34 PMPosted by Nerfheals
If anyone could clarify that would be wonderful!


Low-level balance isn't a particularly big priority. That being said, low-level players are ridonkulously overpowered compared to the PvE content they're facing, so I doubt they'll really suffer from this change.

Dps that use mana don't manage it as a resource the way healers do, with the exception of arcane mages. Running out of mana isn't a concern for them.


There are still times in low level dungeons when I run dangerously low on mana from a big pull, I know balancing lowbies isn't a priority but I'd at least like lowbie healers to still be viable lol.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
07/30/2012 06:49 PMPosted by Duboomchikin


I laughed....a lot


Have you healed on the beta yet? I think mana feels quite similar to the beginning of Cataclysm related to leveling dungeons and heroics. There were times in normal raids that I felt a little "behind" where it felt like I should be, but that was most likely just from not playing optimally (and not having optimal raid groups)


It may very well feel that way to you because you're playing a Resto Druid.
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90 Human Priest
13475
07/12/2012 08:18 PMPosted by Kaels


It was a very good change, it was the sloppy players that were unable to adjust to it. I am absolutely THRILLED that the days of mindlessly spamming your fastest/most expensive spell for every damn mechanic you encounter is over and done with. Blizz brought more conscience and decision making back into healing... priority, caution, speculation... it made healing something that required actual thought.

Holy priests require less thought now than in Wrath. The priority boils down to "keep your !@#$ on CD, and then find a way to make PoH work, unless someone's going to die in the next 2.5 seconds."

I miss Renew being a legitimately good option for some damage types.

I miss raidhealing with Flash Heal when appropriate (we got to do some of that in DS heroics, but apparently that was a Bad Thing because it's Evil to be able to react quickly to mechanics and it must Never Happen Again).

I miss PoH being a giant bomb of a spell that was actually a choice/commitment to use.

I miss actually making target choices based on something other than "identify party with most injured members, then make sure nearest mouseover target in that party isn't standing in Siberia."

I miss regularly making spell choices based on something other than efficiency (not counting the occasional emergency overrides).

I don't like that 97% of my healing decisionmaking boils down to an efficiency calculation. Wrath healing felt like a game. Cata healing feels like playing an Excel spreadsheet with fancy graphics.

Frankly, as far as MoP goes, I don't really care at all about the max mana thing. Whatever. Regen has always been the key player in the mana game, and max mana only ever really mattered (for raid encounters) insofar as it changed your regen. So that's whatever.

But the mana management game sucks. The more tightly tuned and punitive it is, the more it sucks.
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90 Worgen Druid
4810


Have you healed on the beta yet? I think mana feels quite similar to the beginning of Cataclysm related to leveling dungeons and heroics. There were times in normal raids that I felt a little "behind" where it felt like I should be, but that was most likely just from not playing optimally (and not having optimal raid groups)


It may very well feel that way to you because you're playing a Resto Druid.


Actually I've only been healing on my holy pally and monk (though I haven't touched the monk recently). Haven't even messed around with druids on beta yet.
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1 Undead Warrior
0
07/31/2012 11:56 AMPosted by Duboomchikin
Actually I've only been healing on my holy pally and monk (though I haven't touched the monk recently). Haven't even messed around with druids on beta yet.


Play either priest spec or a shaman, then come back. Pallys are head and shoulder above everyone.
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90 Worgen Druid
4810
07/31/2012 01:55 PMPosted by Endlessrage
Actually I've only been healing on my holy pally and monk (though I haven't touched the monk recently). Haven't even messed around with druids on beta yet.


Play either priest spec or a shaman, then come back. Pallys are head and shoulder above everyone.


Nah, I'll just leave the complaining to the rest of you =)

My original reply was to a general comment that alluded to it being laughable that they would get things balanced around static mana pools. Now, I get this general sentiment that "pallys, druids, and monks are fine, but shaman and priest are not" - which is much different then saying Blizz will fail at balancing around the change. It's still beta and it looks like they've taken a couple steps to bring shaman up, and if priests are indeed hurting then I would imagine they're next.

The only personal experience I've had healing with a holy priest on beta certainly didn't suggest that the "sky is falling", but that was a short experience with an amazing holy priest, so it's far from being conclusive in any way.
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90 Tauren Shaman
17185
07/15/2012 03:10 PMPosted by Gumshoe
In WotLK my Shaman was almost always at the mercy of the fight mechanics as to how my mana went (aka, whether or not the fight procced my Water Shield, and how often). Blood Queen was fine for a while *if* I remembered to refresh it every 10-15 secs, then I suddenly had major issues towards the end when they changed it so that nothing procced it (and so on)


Heh. Remember standing in the rocket blasts on Lootship to break your water shield? :)
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90 Tauren Shaman
17185
Like I've said numerous times over the years, watching Blizzard try to get Mana regen right is like watching a toddler who can't leave the dinner table until he finishes his vegetables; he pouts, makes excuses, pushes things on his plate around...and accomplishes nothing.

Incidentally, I keep hoping I'm wrong. I keep hoping the devs will actually get the model right. But quite frankly - as somebody who has healed in this game since classic and healed in other MMOs for years before that - it's going to take a lot more than, "Don't worry guys, everything will be fine. Just buy the expansion, you'll see!" to convince me that they will.

They say they'll get it right this time?
I say talk is cheap. They need to prove it, because their promises hold about as much weight as the Abyssal Maw and the Dance Studio.


**Clap Clap Clap**
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90 Night Elf Priest
13490
Nah, I'll just leave the complaining to the rest of you =)

My original reply was to a general comment that alluded to it being laughable that they would get things balanced around static mana pools. Now, I get this general sentiment that "pallys, druids, and monks are fine, but shaman and priest are not" - which is much different then saying Blizz will fail at balancing around the change. It's still beta and it looks like they've taken a couple steps to bring shaman up, and if priests are indeed hurting then I would imagine they're next.

The only personal experience I've had healing with a holy priest on beta certainly didn't suggest that the "sky is falling", but that was a short experience with an amazing holy priest, so it's far from being conclusive in any way.


Did you play at the advent of Cataclysm? There was a clear disparity in the regen capabilities between the various healing classes. A disparity that had existed, and gone almost entirely untreated in the Cata beta.

In fact, every expansion has seen disparities. Different specs have seen periods of amazing power, and different specs have seen periods of incredible weakness.

What has remained constant is Blizzard's inability to actually balance things.
Edited by Elethia on 7/31/2012 10:15 PM PDT
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1 Undead Warrior
0
Did you play at the advent of Cataclysm? There was a clear disparity in the regen capabilities between the various healing classes. A disparity that had existed, and gone almost entirely untreated in the Cata beta.In fact, every expansion has seen disparities. Different specs have seen periods of amazing power, and different specs have seen periods of incredible weakness. What has remained constant is Blizzard's inability to actually balance things.


I think alot of the probelm has to do with where and how classes are balanced.

Problems that dps classes have are easily seen on paper, sims, and logs.
One might be able to get an idea of the differences between healing classes by using these methods, but you really don't get any clue of an idea on the healing classes until you do

1) Actually get behind the keyboard of all healing classes and do raid content
2) Take a serious look at a herioc boss that the raid is undergeared for, and see what you can do to down the boss
3) Let some of the best players in the world play these classes, and trust their point of view.

If all three of these aren't healing classes will be far from balanced. One can look at all the logs and information they can find, but it will not matters. Healing classes should be judged by how they feel, there are to many things that can lie in logs with healing.
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85 Worgen Druid
9160
See at the start of cata I wasn't OOM because I didn't have enough mana, I completed many heroics on release with minimal mana problems. The times I OOMed was with people that did not want to complete the dungeon properly.

This was never a healer problem imo, it was a player problem. People want to stand where they shouldn't and healers wanted to use whatever spell to heal when this clearly wasn't the way it worked.

It may of not been perfect for you, but to say that we were being forced to OOM by blizz is stupid, people need to take responsibility the only thing that made Cata bad for healing was the players the rest was fine.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
See at the start of cata I wasn't OOM because I didn't have enough mana, I completed many heroics on release with minimal mana problems. The times I OOMed was with people that did not want to complete the dungeon properly.

This was never a healer problem imo, it was a player problem. People want to stand where they shouldn't and healers wanted to use whatever spell to heal when this clearly wasn't the way it worked.

It may of not been perfect for you, but to say that we were being forced to OOM by blizz is stupid, people need to take responsibility the only thing that made Cata bad for healing was the players the rest was fine.


Druids, because of how you scale with Intellect, didn't have many of the mana problems other specs had. Simply saying, "I didn't have mana problems, so no one else had mana problems," is foolish at best, and downright silly at worst.
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90 Night Elf Priest
13490
See at the start of cata I wasn't OOM because I didn't have enough mana, I completed many heroics on release with minimal mana problems. The times I OOMed was with people that did not want to complete the dungeon properly.

This was never a healer problem imo, it was a player problem. People want to stand where they shouldn't and healers wanted to use whatever spell to heal when this clearly wasn't the way it worked.

It may of not been perfect for you, but to say that we were being forced to OOM by blizz is stupid, people need to take responsibility the only thing that made Cata bad for healing was the players the rest was fine.


Sure, you had bad players of every class whining about the changes, and every healing class lost people who weren't able to adapt. Then you had good players of each who knew how to play and knew how to appropriately measure the disparity between classes.

Both Resto Druids and Holy Paladins were better equipped to handle a Wrath-mindset group than Disc/Holy Priests and Resto Shaman.

Heck, I championed the changes at the start of Cata. I was one of those who said "we're not broken, we're not unplayable, get over it and stop being bad". And we weren't unplayable; in fact, it was said that Holy Priests, specifically, were meant to be where everyone was regen wise.

None of that changed the fact that there was a regen disparity. Yes, everyone (with the exception of not-terrible paladins) ran oom with a bad group. The disparity showed up when you were running with a mediocre or better group.

Interestingly enough, the mana problems didn't keep priests from raiding. Pulling numbers from my blog:

As of 12/14/10, looking at the top 10 parses of both 10/25 man BWD/BoT/BH/TotFW:

Priests: [25 MAN] Represented in 9/11 encounters; [10 MAN] Represented in 7/11 encounters. 44 priests total; 26 Disc, 18 Holy.

Druids: [25 MAN] Represented in 6/11 encounters; [10 MAN] Represented in 6/11 encounters. 24 druids total.

Shaman: [25 MAN] Represented in 4/11 encounters; [10 MAN] Represented in 1/11 encounters. 8 shaman total.

Paladins are represented in every fight and take the lion’s share. We’ll see what happens now that they’ve been hotfixed.

---

Disc was roughly equal to Druids, Holy was hanging on, Shaman were in deplorable shape, and everyone was choking on Paladin dust.

Either way, there was a disparity.

My main issue doesn't even have anything to do with priests. It has to do with balance. And, believe me, I get that it's really, really tough to balance healing. We're not like DPS. We have far more variables. But Blizzard has been notoriously far off the mark in every expansion.
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