Why so much hate on Warlocks in MoP?

14 Night Elf Druid
0
The new mechanics for each specialization seems very interesting. Blizzards option to move some spells to a specific specialization makes sense and will clean up our spell book. Everything just seems to be more refined and refreshed and Warlocks continue to be the most interesting class, at least in my book.

People always complain Warlocks do poor DPS but no one realized that once you can master your rotation and are at max level, your DPS is far from low.

People are complaining about how they need to re-learn their Warlock rotation every expansion but I think it's just another excuse to bash Warlocks because it is not that hard to learn new mechanics and rotations.
Edited by Jedediah on 7/24/2012 12:02 PM PDT
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90 Undead Warlock
9445
probably has more to do with all the non-warlock posts praising how good it is.
oversimplification of a class that is renowned for its complexity isnt going to be welcomed with open arms from every long standing player of the class, who has found any sort of success with previous incarnations of it.
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14 Night Elf Druid
0
Whether Warlocks have been simplified or has been made more complex, does it really matter?

After all, having fun playing with the class is all it matters. In the end, it's just a game.

I don't understand why simplicity means that you won't have fun playing with the class.

Also, you have to remember Blizzard is trying to generally make classes easier for new players, so you really shouldn't be surprised that they are simplifying Warlocks.
Edited by Jedediah on 7/24/2012 12:26 PM PDT
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Think of it as this. If Blizzard had done is right the first or second time, there wouldnt be a third, a fourth or 5th time (projecting into the future). And most of the changes were unasked for and not even discussed with us or major warlocks as to the viability of suggested changes.

They may know the mechanics BEHIND the spells and abilities, but we, the players, are more familiar with their uses and effects. And no input from us was really asked or discussed other than a few casual posts of "No promises, but post here what you would like to see in your class..." sort of topic.

Last time i raided was in Karazhan in mid TBC time (different lock, can post on her to show her gear if needed). Had to leave. Came back at end of Wrath to level this toon (guild moved servers and i had to leave for money reasons and so couldnt afford to play or Xfer). Was still leveling this toon when Cata hit. All the changes in Cata (to me) were lumped into the Wrath changes (still alot). For me, the class was drastically changed from one i knew to one i saw many similarities to but wasnt the same.

And yet another class overhaul is coming. Simple or hard, easy or complicated, i still have to relearn it... and i havent learned the Wrath/Cata changes yet. My fingers still react to situations as if its TBC, and even moving my spells to those buttons doesnt help... as the spells are often different or useless as a demo lock. "SoC anyone?"

Much of the problems are MINE and i know this. Do you want to pay $15 a month to spend endless boring hours attacking a training dummy to relearn your reactions into a NEW rotation/priority? And spend still more hours farming JPs and VPs and doing quests on a PvP server where you are outnumbered 7 to 1 by bored gankers just to get the gear to raid? When your guild is already far beyond the starting raids and the gears that would drop to help you gear up with them?

I play for fun, not tired tediousness. Not repeated changes to a class that the very players are not given an opportunity to help the class get better. Blizzard has shown by their repeated re-forging of the class to not know how to fix it, but wont work with us. And so, things are yet just like before... and will continue again.

"Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it"
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90 Undead Warlock
12185
Whether Warlocks have been simplified or has been made more complex, does it really matter?

After all, having fun playing with the class is all it matters. In the end, it's just a game.

I don't understand why simplicity means that you won't have fun playing with the class.

Also, you have to remember Blizzard is trying to generally make classes easier for new players, so you really shouldn't be surprised that they are simplifying Warlocks.


I think the problem a number of players are having is not specifically that the class is getting simplified, but that the changes aren't fun and a lack of complexity is boring to them. Some players enjoy having a larger number of things to do than press the same few buttons.
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90 Orc Warlock
4500
07/24/2012 12:22 PMPosted by Jedediah
I don't understand why simplicity means that you won't have fun playing with the class.


For some people challenging = fun.

I see it both ways and like Destro on Live and Beta.
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86 Blood Elf Warlock
12030
Most of the hate is about resource generation for both demo and destro and cluncky things like demo stance dancing.

BTW the only spec that is getting easier is destro, affliction is almost the same as live in complexity levels, Demo's complexity on the other hand sky rockets to absurd levels thanks to stance dancing, a lot of new abilities and a huge arsenal of obscure tricks and combinations which will make live@demo look like a walk in the park.


If what you say is true, then I will welcome learning the new demo as I have every expansion for the past 4-5 years (thats right, was demo back in BC when it was "unheard of" and never looked back)

But sadly I hear a different story, easier rotation, new resource is garbage and the spec doesn't know where it belongs.
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90 Orc Warlock
0
Demo wasn't that bad back in BC. 20/41 rather than 27/34 or whatever, you got the Felguard and lost Siphon Life.

And back then the Felguard did more damage than the other pets.
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85 Night Elf Priest
4630
Its because so many locks kept crying about how complicated our rotation was. What did you guys expect? I feel like someone just pissed in my mouth after reading all the QQ. I remember when cata hit, a huge chunk of the lock population BI*CHED about it and now guess what we get for it?

Demo in BC wasn't bad. The only reason why some had issues was they lacked practice with pet management, but we all got accustomed to it as we progressed through T5.

The BC golden ages were perfect for locks because every tier was a new play style. T4 content we used affliction, T5 we used demo and T6 we used destro ( demo /destro sac spec) All in all we learned our specs for a new content and it made us amazing at it.
Edited by Lostacolyte on 7/25/2012 6:42 AM PDT
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85 Worgen Druid
2645
I'm not sure everyone was crying about how complicated our rotation was, I think it was the fact that we didn't GET anything for that complex rotation. If we had slightly higher DPS over simplier classes for actually completing that rotation well, then it would be worth it.
My question is this: Why would I WANT to play a Warlock? Each class brings something, both gameplay wise and themetically, that makes people want to play it. If it doesn't, then people won't play it, simple as that.
Warlock brings a versatile pets and DoTs and some CC gameplay wise, along with a bit of utility. Themetically, it's fun to summon creatures and have cool channeled spells that are bright purple or green.
But hunters CC arguably better or as well as us, and with the advent of them having 5 pets carried, they arguably have as much variety in their pets as well.
What has happened is that the class doesn't really reward anything. You have complex rotations, but you don't get any real benefit from completing them- your DPS is only as good or worse than a 2-button Arcane Mage. You have DoTs which are fun to rotate, but they don't perform as well as other DPS classes.
Ultimately I keep finding myself asking the question: Why play a warlock? Except for the cool summoning of demons, I haven't been able to answer that question satisfactorily.
And it looks like MoP is having even worse struggles. Why would I play a Destruction lock that only has a big nuke after building a resource when I could just play a fire mage? Why play a Demonology warlock where I have to constantly watch and carefully use my demon form and fury when I could just play a beastmaster hunter and have the pets and fun?
I just don't see a reason to play the class gameplay wise, and that's a shame because it's my favorite class themetically.
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90 Orc Warlock
0
It used to be because you were a caster with tank-like hit points who had "unlimited" mana because of lifetap. This made the Warlock unique. Mages would go OOM pretty easily and also had no self-healing abilities.

Now we all have the same hit points and everyone seems to have a way to regen health or mana, so it doesn't seem like we have a niche anymore.
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87 Undead Rogue
3830
07/25/2012 09:09 AMPosted by Agabus
I'm not sure everyone was crying about how complicated our rotation was, I think it was the fact that we didn't GET anything for that complex rotation. If we had slightly higher DPS over simplier classes for actually completing that rotation well, then it would be worth it.


Bingo!
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90 Undead Warlock
10545
07/24/2012 12:22 PMPosted by Jedediah
Also, you have to remember Blizzard is trying to generally make classes easier for new players, so you really shouldn't be surprised that they are simplifying Warlocks.


I am a newer player and this was my first character. My warlock taught me about the concept of a spell rotation, managing buffs/debuffs, and other important things that more experienced players take as given. Had I started with a no-brainer class, I probably would have turned out like those headless chickens that you see in LFR or other such pugs. With a warlock, I was taught the basics of not !@#$ing up early on and it's paid off on my other toons. Also I think that starting with such a complex class was a rewarding experience in the end, because anything else I want to play is easy in comparison to this. Yet I keep coming back to my warlock because I learned to find the rotation more fun. I'm still not great, but I'm striving to improve. As DS dragged on, micromanaging my rotation became more fun than the fights themselves.

So, from personal experience, I call bull%^-* on that. If newer players do give up on the game because of the complex rotations of one class, then this probably isn't the game for them.
Edited by Gothitelle on 7/25/2012 12:04 PM PDT
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90 Troll Warlock
2655
who agreeds alliance warlocks look stupid and not frighting
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i think in MoP they addressed alot of survival issues for locks with MoP since we seem to get focused down especially in rbgs
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90 Worgen Warlock
12820
07/28/2012 09:54 PMPosted by Yhtytgyg
who agreeds alliance warlocks look stupid and not frighting

we should hang out some time
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