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OPEN LIBRAM : XXXV - Eternal Fires Burn
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I know people will say I'm nuts and just bad or something, but when I leveled up a second paladin, once I got to higher levels it felt very squishy compared to a warrior. This was with the tank hierlooms and I freaking know how to tank on a paladin already. I tanked all that stuff when it was relevent. The issue seemed to be due to mastery. Even at lower levels, warriors have a base block chance of like 15% built in from talents. Protection paladins have a whopping 5% block chance until they hit level 80 and can get some mastery. Compared to a warrior, paladins take a bit more damage, but paladins can heal a lot and has enough cooldowns in the 70's to deal with it. I've leveled two prot paladins and two prot warriors into LK content during Cata. I'm talking about tanks that are failing to survive, not using a single cooldown, not having cast a single wog on themselves doing an instance that I have done solo as a prot paladin. The lower level dungeons are just so easy, BRD/BRS get a little harder because they have funny mechanics used on tanks but you can just ignore them because when it happens and the mobs go wild they don't do enough damage to be dangerous, and then the BC instances are back to being so easymode that healers can tank them. (I tanked all of shattered halls at 67 on this holy paladin with three hunters when the tank left after the first boss) Then they get to LK instances where mobs will do big cast-time single hits, aoe hits, stun, CC, and the tanks are thinking they can go derp they way along and pull three packs, then rage because they die. |
On the PTR you have to gem PVP power because of how wonky PVP resil is right now. I suspect it's a bug. You can get pvp power gems on the ptr? Last I checked there weren't even level 85 gear vendors in SW. |
Me too. :( |
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You won't be swooping at the start of MoP!
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Will it be more like a dirt snuggler? |
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More like a nug!
The stray, who two months ago was nearly dead from hunger and would run and hide in the furthest reaches of the garage if anyone got within twenty feet of him... I now can't make him stop sleeping on my desk, on my keyboard, or directly on top of my mouse. (And has gotten amazingly picky about food, for something that was so recently starving) http://i.imgur.com/41FDe.jpg |
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Edited by Bravestrike on 7/28/12 7:33 PM (PDT)
Yeah the lower dungeons are way undertuned. You can tank them with any random class or spec that can manage to get aggro on things. BC dungeons you usually start to need a tank that actually tanks, but I've had guildies that end up shadow priest tanking (or whatever they happen to be on) due to frustrations with bad tanks. I think it actually surprises people that LK regular dungeons done at the appropriate level, are actually IMHO more difficult than BC regular dungeons at appropriate levels. People just remember wrath being faceroll (it was), and BC being challenging (with the abilities we had at the time it was). Basically, it feels like the scaling of our stats, dps, etc in the BC dungeons is off (much like with the lower level ones, but not to that extent). So then people get to wrath content and expect the dungeons to be super faceroll (they still are but people are dumb about it), and they are shocked to find that if you run in with an improperly geared tank and grab all the mobs at the start of Utgarde Keep, and then get stunned...you just might die. Sure, the healer can spam heals that hit for more than your health...but there's a limit to how fast they can pump them out lol. |
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Oh wow, GC deigns to post on the weekend, and still nothing about SoB.
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They like to wait a month or so after release before doing anything that might help paladins. They have to be absolutely positive that the most popular class in the game isn't collectively pulling off some monumental cover up to hide how truly OP they are lol. If there's too much damage of course it just takes a week, and then players of other classes make sure to bring it up every few days or so for several years. How much exagguration is used when bringing it up is proportional to how long it's been. The week after its people telling everyone how funny it was for paladins to be so powerful for one week. A few months later people talk about the month that paladins were way out of control in pvp. A few years later and it's stories about how paladins destroyed pvp for all of wrath with how overpowered they were. I went off on a tangent there didn't I? |
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Hush, you fool. |
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Edited by Cayse on 7/28/12 8:12 PM (PDT)
I think it actually surprises people that LK regular dungeons done at the appropriate level, are actually IMHO more difficult than BC regular dungeons at appropriate levels. People just remember wrath being faceroll (it was), and BC being challenging (with the abilities we had at the time it was). BC normal dungeons are undertuned, they always were. Utgarde Keep, level 68 tanks go in with their bizarre gear mishmash and after getting their face absolutely pounded for 30 minutes get to Ingvar only to find out that Smash will 100-0 your dumb !@# with your 11k health pool. Leveling a toon as Alliance somewhat limits my resource pool, but there is nothing that can compete with a low level holy paladin's ability to mash out huge healing. If you die when I'm spamming constant instant and 1.1 second 8k heals, it's seriously not my problem. Also everyone should apparently go to the beta/ptr forums and accuse them of not knowing what to do with some random class.
On the arena forums people still use the first three weeks of S5 to justify the destruction of paladins as a whole. |
:)
Oh was it 3 weeks? My bad. My memory is vague due to a few factors. For one, I didn't get to experience the first couple weeks of wrath because I was just settling in to Camp Ramadi, Iraq and had to wait on the fam to send a copy of the xpack to me (downloading it all on the satellite internet I had that was capped at 2 whole GB of transfer a month was not an option). On top of that I was protection at the time and didn't start playing ret until later on into the xpack. Man, thinking back on that internet I had, it was so terrible for wow (but hey, I was lucky to have it, got the equipment for $2,000 off a guy in the unit we were replacing, and sold it for the same when I was leaving). My latency was usually just a tad over 1k. I could tank all of naxx except for Heigan. It didn't matter what I tried. I thought I could apply a little Kentucky windage and figure out how much of a lead I'd need to compensate but just couldn't ever get it right. |
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I don't mean during the beginning. Don't get me wrong, I fight back. :) Part of me prefers the ability to stealthy like on my Druid...once at Tol Barad, me and my Shammy buddy were questing and there were two Alliance there, a Rogue and his pal (don't remember the class). Basically, my buddy and his buddy did the quests while me and the Rogue, both in stealth, circled the two trying to spot the other stealther after we'd already fought (2v2, 2v1, and 1v1 pairings) several times. It was this weird arms race type thing, funny, but tense as hell. Eventually his buddy left and I just kept on watch for the Rogue. ...and the Rogue WAS still there, because we kept crossing each other's path JUST enough to hear the stealth noise and see the other guy for a split second. It was fun. :D ...but on my Paladin, I like it too. Usually it's just me doing the Prot "immortal" thing while buddies (or sometimes, I enlist NPCs...wild ones, not guards XD) kill the enemy. But it all works just as well. Better, even - when they take durability damage. >:D I love it when gankers take durability damage. I love it even more when they Spirit Res. That's the best. :) SUCH a good feeling. :D |
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Oh, I should also point out, I tend to like FAIR PvP (which in my mind is non-ganking PvP.) I don't like ganking because I want a challenge. I want to go up against someone roughly equal in power levels (same level, similar gear) and see whose skill/class/knowledge can come out on top. That's the most fun to me. ...also situational awareness. I once fought a guy in Hellfire and had him so focused he didn't notice (somehow) the Fel Reaver coming form behind him. Apparently, "Look behind you!" doesn't work when talking to the other faction. XD ...and even if it did, I wouldn't have typed it. MWAHAHA!! That's what you get for trying to gank my level 62, you evil evil level 67, you! Though I think I may have gotten a level 70 killed that way too...that involved strategic use of a Gnomish Claoking device after kiting a Fel Reaver through the Ally's AOE he put down. That was really his own fault, now, wasn't it? :D Light...! I had SO much fun in Hellfire. /nostalgia So many gankers suffer from situational awareness fail. ...and use AOE. XD . That said, I don't like a "dismount an enemy free" ability. And I still think the solution is to allow flying in Pandaria UNTIL reaching the level cap. I know it would make farming crap harder, but all's fair in love and World PvP. If you want convenient mat farming, you really shouldn't be on a PvP server. XD |
Ret was pretty good S5 because it was a bursty season, but it wasn't even close to the level of DK's, hunters, etc. It wasn't very common, either. Maybe you're thinking of 3.0 when Ret was hideously OP. :) ...and the Rogue WAS still there, because we kept crossing each other's path JUST enough to hear the stealth noise and see the other guy for a split second. It was fun. :D Sounds like he needed a Sap macro. :P |
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Edited by Cayse on 7/28/12 9:15 PM (PDT)
Nobody really complains about 3.0 S4 when ret was absolutely free 1850 shoulders, it's always S5, which was when DS was magic, we could bubble-wings and bubble was still a 50% attack speed penalty, not damage penalty. We ate some hard nerfs, but we were still super bursty for the entire expansion.
People will literally just not let it go, and talk about those couple weeks as if it were the entirety of LK. Every time I look at the TV listings I see "XXX Summer Olympics," followed by "XXX Summer Olympics Highlights." And every time my brain goes.. wait.. what? |
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Edited by Hofleurette on 7/28/12 9:51 PM (PDT)
Nobody really complains about 3.0 S4 when ret was absolutely free 1850 shoulders, it's always S5, which was when DS was magic, we could bubble-wings and bubble was still a 50% attack speed penalty, not damage penalty. We ate some hard nerfs, but we were still super bursty for the entire expansion. "To the ground!" happened in 3.0. So many people confuse 3.0 for Season Five that sometimes I begin to question my memory, but by the start of S5 Divine Storm was already physical, Wings and Bubble already had a shared lockout, etc. Ret was still good that season, but not grossly overpowered. |
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@Arth: World PVP is never fair. I don't think it's supposed to be lol. It's just supposed to be fun!
I was leveling in EPL today when I ran across a ret paladin my level. Naturally I dot and kite him to death because he doesn't have Freedom yet. Apparently he didn't have bubble and EMFH bound either, but he DID like to BoP himself a lot, which made my felpuppy happy. Anyway I kill him a few times (we were on the same quest) and then he gets a lvl85 moonkin to help him. This moonkin was fresh, sub-100k health. He couldn't kill me with moonfire spam. I actually landed a couple Fears on him, miraculously. My DK happened to be in the area so he swooped down and killed the moonkin for me. We did this a few times: he'd blow up the druid, I'd eat the paladin (literally lol). It was magical. Well then the paladin logs and fetches his 85 DK main. In accordance with proper world PVP etiquette, I'm allowed to get my paladin. Not that my DK needed help, I was just sick of my warlock lol. My DK and I go skydiving and kill the druid a whole bunch midair. The DK flies over to the guard tower and refuses to engage. My DK had to go, so I hung out with the druid and the DK at the tower. We had a dance party and a mount show off contest. They waved goodbye and gave me hugs and I gave them high fives. The end. Somehow, most of these showdowns always involve a dance party where everyone is friends in the end. My kind of world PVP lol. |
