MoP raid releases will be staggered

55 Draenei Death Knight
90
Thank god. I'm SOOOO tired of rushing through the leveling zones just to be raid ready as soon as possible. I actually wish we had 2 weeks before we could raid.

Thank you Blizz.
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88 Dwarf Priest
7915
I know this has been said before, that staggered release only affects the top guilds. Time and time again I see people referring to them as the minority, as if being a minority in this game doesn't matter so their opinions about staggered release doesn't matter - that only the large populace matters. I just want to point out that it is that minority that comes up with the strategies we use, develops the add-ons we use, and develops the sim craft tools and data we use so your dps/heals/tanks don't stink up the place. I personally think staggered release is fine, but atleast show some respect to the people that continue to make this game more enjoyable for the rest of us.
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90 Human Death Knight
12455
08/02/2012 05:38 AMPosted by Tyrnyx
Any of you guys think Blizz is doing this because they are following through on the "more content faster" thing?

No, I think they are doing it because they don't like the way people are consuming raid content as "time trials." I supsect they also don't really love the the emerging culture of "speed clear raiding at all costs and to hell with the rest of the game."

This concept is far from unique or new. At the end of the day, raiding is full of "throttling" mechanisms meant to limit your ability to raid and gear. The whole point of lockouts, valor point caps, etc. is to prevent you from plowing through the content too fast. You are - and have always been - subject to limits on raiding.

To flip to the other extreme, they could easily put all raids on a 3-day lockout, remove the valor point cap and release all 16 bosses and day 1. And no doubt someone, somewhere, would love that, and play WoW until their eyes bled, and have a very enjoyable time of it for a while.

But they don't want that. They don't want you do to it. They want you to eat raiding in weekly morsels. They strip away rewards if you do it too much (in the case of valor). They physcially prevent you from doing it more than once a week (in the case of lockouts). And they slow the pace at which you smash through their content (in the case of gating, or spreading raiding over patches, as opposed to just putting every tier in at release).

And no, not because they care about your health. Not because they are your mom. Not because the bosses aren't ready.

It's just because they've gone to all the trouble to make this game, and maybe it isn't so fun for them to have a culture that revolves around binging on one small part of it.

That, and frankly, they need you to stay subscribed. They make money because you play OVER TIME, not based on how many bosses you kill the first week.
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90 Pandaren Hunter
14925
That, and frankly, they need you to stay subscribed. They make money because you play OVER TIME, not based on how many bosses you kill the first week.


So what you're saying is, eventually this game is gonna go to a pay-to-play model where I have to shell out $2.50 for every boss that I want to access.

/sarcasm
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
0
08/02/2012 07:01 AMPosted by Adarant
That, and frankly, they need you to stay subscribed. They make money because you play OVER TIME, not based on how many bosses you kill the first week.


So what you're saying is, eventually this game is gonna go to a pay-to-play model where I have to shell out $2.50 for every boss that I want to access.

/sarcasm

They'd probably skip that step and just sell heroic BiS sets off the Blizzard Store.

And an uncapped scaling buff to your character. $2.50 per 5% per month.
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99 Troll Rogue
21375
The dynamics of this thread remind me of the 10/25 man shared lockout announcement at the end of wrath. Here we have something that multiple people from world/region first or first challenging guilds have talked about as a potentially good thing if not outright asked for. The people screaming bloody murder are from that next set down, those guilds in the world/region top 50.

Yes this is something of a generalization but the trend seems to be the same.
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90 Worgen Druid
11360
This doesn't make sense to me in one aspect.

I kinda get the staggering of the instances, but the timing doesn't make any sense.

The natural progression would be

  • Vaults > H Vaults
  • Heart > H Heart
  • Terrace > H Terrace
  • But you are releasing Heart and Terrace together, and then H Heart and H Terrace together?

    So, we clear Heart, clear Terrace, then have to go back to H Heart to get back to H Terrace? Why not just stagger them like Vaults? I guess I am confused on the progression of difficulty.
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    100 Orc Death Knight
    17050
    I know this has been said before, that staggered release only affects the top guilds. Time and time again I see people referring to them as the minority, as if being a minority in this game doesn't matter so their opinions about staggered release doesn't matter - that only the large populace matters. I just want to point out that it is that minority that comes up with the strategies we use, develops the add-ons we use, and develops the sim craft tools and data we use so your dps/heals/tanks don't stink up the place. I personally think staggered release is fine, but atleast show some respect to the people that continue to make this game more enjoyable for the rest of us.


    You realize that the minority a lot of us are talking about are a minority within a minority. There are plenty of people in the hardest of hardcore guilds that are absolutely fine with this. I remember seeing quotes posted on MMO from the top guilds complaining about the length of T11 and how grueling it was. Why? Because bugs withstanding, there was too many bosses and specifically the lack of some gating.

    While lots of players do utilize tools from people who complete content before them, this isn't always the case. You might have had a better case in previous expansions but it isn't the case nearly as much before. There are plenty of people who run sims or create addons that aren't even high progression guilds. The information Blizzard feeds us these days makes adding timers to something as simple as bigwigs/DBM rather easy.
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    90 Blood Elf Rogue
    0
    So, we clear Heart, clear Terrace, then have to go back to H Heart to get back to H Terrace? Why not just stagger them like Vaults? I guess I am confused on the progression of difficulty.

    I'm 99% sure you don't have to clear all the hardmodes in Heart of Fear to unlock Terrace hardmodes. At least nothing we've seen to date would imply that correlation; you need to clear normal Heart to unlock normal Terrace, but hardmodes should only be respective to killing the final boss in each instance.

    So it'll be...

    Normal Mogu'shan Vaults → Heroic Mogu'shan Vaults

    . . .

    Normal Heart of Fear → Heroic Heart of Fear

    Normal Terrace of Endless Spring → Heroic Terrace of Endless Spring
    Edited by Verelyse on 8/2/2012 7:29 AM PDT
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    100 Orc Death Knight
    17050
    This doesn't make sense to me in one aspect.

    I kinda get the staggering of the instances, but the timing doesn't make any sense.

    The natural progression would be

  • Vaults > H Vaults
  • Heart > H Heart
  • Terrace > H Terrace
  • But you are releasing Heart and Terrace together, and then H Heart and H Terrace together?

    So, we clear Heart, clear Terrace, then have to go back to H Heart to get back to H Terrace? Why not just stagger them like Vaults? I guess I am confused on the progression of difficulty.


    Heart and Terrace share the same iLvL. Terrace from a story stand point is the last instance. From my understanding the only gating that occurs in Terrace when it's first released is a normal clear of Heart. After both Heart/Terrace are cleared on normal, you can go to whichever one you want on Heroic.

    At least that's how I hope it works.
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    90 Pandaren Shaman
    16840
    I'm just so excited to have more than 8 people in D&R forum.
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    90 Pandaren Warrior
    0
    This is ridiculous, there is no reason whatsoever to delay the first raid a week after launch. In fact, there's no reason to "gate" the raids at all. If this trend continues in future content patches or expansions, I will probably leave the game. I have all the understanding in the world when it comes to making the game more casual-friendly, but this is forcing casual-ness (not a word I know) on those of us that want to powerlevel to 90 and do raids day 1 or 2. That's actually the #1 thing I look forward to every expansion, and you're taking that away.

    Edit: I'm not complaining about the staggered release of HoF and Terrace, only the week delay on Vaults.
    Edited by Bigmac on 8/2/2012 7:55 AM PDT
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    90 Draenei Paladin
    15820
    This doesn't make sense to me in one aspect.

    I kinda get the staggering of the instances, but the timing doesn't make any sense.

    The natural progression would be

  • Vaults > H Vaults
  • Heart > H Heart
  • Terrace > H Terrace
  • But you are releasing Heart and Terrace together, and then H Heart and H Terrace together?

    So, we clear Heart, clear Terrace, then have to go back to H Heart to get back to H Terrace? Why not just stagger them like Vaults? I guess I am confused on the progression of difficulty.


    Heart and Terrace share the same iLvL. Terrace from a story stand point is the last instance. From my understanding the only gating that occurs in Terrace when it's first released is a normal clear of Heart. After both Heart/Terrace are cleared on normal, you can go to whichever one you want on Heroic.

    At least that's how I hope it works.


    They unlock at the same time but I believe you must clear heart of fear before terrace. So on the week they release all guilds will have to clear HoF before terrace but they can do terrace immediately after HoF. So theoretically you could clear HoF and terrace on the same day, you just have to do HoF first. This one is a combination of lore (sha of fear is causing the problems in HoF) and that sha of fear I believe is designed as final boss of tier since he has an additional phase on heroic.
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    85 Human Warlock
    15190
    I really doubt progression is Normal Vault to heroic Vault then to another Normal Heart. That's part of what is making this so screwy.

    Normal modes and heroic modes are seperate progression paths. If they really wanted a staggered gate it would have made more sense to release all three insances as normal modes and then do the arbitrary four week lockout to the heroic modes.
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    90 Blood Elf Rogue
    0
    I'd be really surprised if three weeks was a long enough time to really unbalance progression in that respect, even if you're in a guild able to full-clear heroic Mogu'shan Vaults the first week it's available.

    Which I'd like to assume won't even be possible.
    Edited by Verelyse on 8/2/2012 8:19 AM PDT
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    80 Undead Warlock
    2400
    08/02/2012 06:39 AMPosted by Tesiax
    I know this has been said before, that staggered release only affects the top guilds. Time and time again I see people referring to them as the minority, as if being a minority in this game doesn't matter so their opinions about staggered release doesn't matter - that only the large populace matters. I just want to point out that it is that minority that comes up with the strategies we use, develops the add-ons we use, and develops the sim craft tools and data we use so your dps/heals/tanks don't stink up the place. I personally think staggered release is fine, but atleast show some respect to the people that continue to make this game more enjoyable for the rest of us.


    Many of the top guilds make money from their strategies they place on their websites from advertising. For some it's not all about giving back to the community.
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    99 Troll Rogue
    21375
    I really doubt progression is Normal Vault to heroic Vault then to another Normal Heart. That's part of what is making this so screwy.

    Normal modes and heroic modes are seperate progression paths. If they really wanted a staggered gate it would have made more sense to release all three insances as normal modes and then do the arbitrary four week lockout to the heroic modes.

    This whole thing makes a lot more sense with only a 2 or 3 week delay, 4 just doesn't work.

    Assuming decently tuned, not DS style, normals a guild that can clear normal mode in a week or two is probably a guild interested in heroic modes. Guilds that are just finishing normal MSV when HoF and Terrace open are probably less interested, or at least less capable of heroic modes.

    With 4 weeks that breaks down somewhat, I'm guessing the logic behind 4 weeks is that those guilds less interested in pushing progression probably won't raid the first week MSV is open.

    A lot of this will depend on tuning, how many guilds can get through normal and heroic MSV, whatever their intended mode is, before HoF and Terrace come out. I still think 4 weeks is too long but if MSV normal and heroic are tuned hard enough it could work.
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    90 Blood Elf Paladin
    1785
    08/02/2012 05:10 AMPosted by Tomax
    What people are not talking about is how entry tier of MOP will be easier then Cata clearing 6 normal mode bosses the 2nd week of the expansion will be the standard for any one that this change even impacts.


    Ok, so about 5% or less of the raiding population will clear normal the first week it is out. That is a really small percentage, so I say if it only effects less than 5%, let the delay go through.
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    90 Blood Elf Paladin
    1785
    This whole thing makes a lot more sense with only a 2 or 3 week delay, 4 just doesn't work.

    Assuming decently tuned, not DS style, normals a guild that can clear normal mode in a week or two is probably a guild interested in heroic modes. Guilds that are just finishing normal MSV when HoF and Terrace open are probably less interested, or at least less capable of heroic modes.

    With 4 weeks that breaks down somewhat, I'm guessing the logic behind 4 weeks is that those guilds less interested in pushing progression probably won't raid the first week MSV is open.

    A lot of this will depend on tuning, how many guilds can get through normal and heroic MSV, whatever their intended mode is, before HoF and Terrace come out. I still think 4 weeks is too long but if MSV normal and heroic are tuned hard enough it could work.


    Supposedly HoF and Terrace are tuned assuming you have full 489 gear or close to it. I personally think Blizzard is saving themselves from a headache here. If they opened HoF and Terrace, a lot of people who downed heroic content in DS (with the nerf) would find themselves having a lot of trouble with normal modes. This causes a lot of complaining on the forums and leads to nerfs sooner than they should come out. By delaying it, Blizzard is giving you a chance to experience Vaults, get some gear and have a fair shot at HoF and Terrace. Great move on Blizzard's part.
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