MoP raid releases will be staggered

85 Draenei Hunter
11685
08/02/2012 09:43 AMPosted by Kuruption
Again, this doesn't affect me at all. My guild doesn't plan on doing 25s til the last two raids are open (maybe even later, we aren't pushing people to level). I just don't like the fact a gaming company tells me when I can and when I can't raid. It just sets a bad precedence (I hope that's the right word).


That seems to ludicrous to me, as Blizzard is 100% already in charge of when you do and don't raid.

If they don't make any raids this year, what would you do? Call your congressman? The President? I do genuinely understand what you're saying, but to behave as if they're preventing you from excercising a God-given right come across as kind of silly.

I apologise to anyone who is genuinely upset about this, but I have to see it seems like such a minor issue I can't get my head around the amount of butt hurt in this thread over a single week's delay.
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90 Troll Druid
11615
08/02/2012 09:49 AMPosted by Karamok
That seems to ludicrous to me, as Blizzard is 100% already in charge of when you do and don't raid.


I'm pretty sure I can raid whenever I feel like it right now.

f they don't make any raids this year, what would you do? Call your congressman? The President? I do genuinely understand what you're saying, but to behave as if they're preventing you from excercising a God-given right come across as kind of silly.


I'd quit?

I could pull the "I pay 14.99 a month" crap and say I should be able to do what I want, but that's just as silly as your example of calling a congressman and the president. Why the hell would I call them?
Edited by Kuruption on 8/2/2012 9:53 AM PDT
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85 Human Warlock
15190
08/02/2012 09:49 AMPosted by Karamok
the amount of butt hurt in this thread over a single week's delay.


I don't think anyone is really upset about the first week. I kind of wish it wasn't there but meh whatever at this point. I think the frustration comes from two normal mode instances not being available for four weeks. There simply is no vaild reason.

People can NOT be trusted to do practically anything by themselves.


Yes they can it's called personal responsibility.
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90 Draenei Paladin
15820
08/02/2012 09:51 AMPosted by Kuruption
That seems to ludicrous to me, as Blizzard is 100% already in charge of when you do and don't raid.


I'm pretty sure I can raid whenever I feel like it right now.

f they don't make any raids this year, what would you do? Call your congressman? The President? I do genuinely understand what you're saying, but to behave as if they're preventing you from excercising a God-given right come across as kind of silly.


I'd quit?

I could pull the "I pay 14.99 a month" crap and say I should be able to do what I want, but that's just as silly as your example of calling a congressman and the president. Why the hell would I call them?


I think the point he was trying to make was that the raids are 1 week locks instead of no locks. Preventing people from downing all content in 1-2 days instead of 1-2 weeks.

Anyways, @Karamok, if you are going to argue for the raid gating at least try understand where the hardcore raiders are coming from. They aren't lifeless people who do nothing but play WoW. They are people with an actual life who play this game for a different reason as you.
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85 Human Warlock
15190
08/02/2012 09:55 AMPosted by Nery
This thread just went down to hell.


Neryssa? Why are you changing/transfering/whatever?

If that is you of course.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
1785
And so far we've gotten:

-Prevents burnout: Burnout is a player issue. You and you alone are responsible for moderating your own gameplay. No one else is responsible in any way if players do unhealthy things for the game except the players themselves.

-Allow time to level and see all the content: The content isn't removed when you start raiding and you can level at your own place regardless. Feeling "pressured" to level is a player issue and not a game design issue. If you feel you just "have" to rush to the end and it isn't the method of playing you'd most enjoy why are you doing it? That's a (individual) player issue and has nothing to do with the game's design.

-Prevents guilds from expecting everyone ready in a few days: If your guild's leadership and your personal goals and expectations are that far apart that is a player issue and has nothing to do with the game's design. The whole purpose of guilds is to group up with players of similar expectations and goals. If you apply to a bleeding edge progression guild you knew the expectations. If you join a casual friends and fmaily guild you knew the expectations. Any disparity is either the result of poor leadership, poor guild selection (for an individual) or poor recruitment (for a guild) andnot dependent on the game's design.

-Prevents hardcore raiders from going nonstop until everything is cleared: See burnout above. That is a player issue and doesn't need Blizzard modulating gameplay.

-Prevents less ambitous guilds from "falling behind" - ever since Wrath shifted the raiding paradigm to a single tier instead of linear progression it is impossible to fall behind. You are in the same tier fighting the same encounters and getting the same gear as the Paragons, Methods, KIN Raiders, and Blood Legions of the world are. As a matter of fact you could completely chose not to raid in T14 and you will have a mechanism when T15 is released that will allow you gear to immediately enter it without touching a single one of these raids.

Why are playes incapable or unwilling to slow down their leveling if they want to? Why are players incapable or unwilling to not be neck and neck with some percieved competition if their primary interest is elsewhere? Why are players not willing to acknowledge that their choices are theirs to make and not a product of the game's design?

The only time there is no choice is when arbitrary gates are put up. That's where a lot of the frustration expressed in this thread comes from.


You could equally say that your inability to wait is a player issue. Blizzard always decides when they need to release content, they try to do it in a way that makes sense for the majority of the population which involves paying attention to player issues.
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90 Troll Druid
11615
08/02/2012 09:58 AMPosted by Petriim
I think the point he was trying to make was that the raids are 1 week locks instead of no locks. Preventing people from downing all content in 1-2 days instead of 1-2 weeks.


I knew where he was coming from, but people do have alts that can raid. So that was my point.

As for as this subject goes, it's whatever. Blizzard can do what they want. No point in arguing it anymore really from my point of view.
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100 Tauren Druid
10565
Its not that we cant wait. its the fact that we are waiting for no purpose other then the people who "Get overwhelmed" which is just silly.
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90 Draenei Paladin
15820
This thread just went down to hell.


What'd you expect? Something with this topic will naturally degenerate to a hardcore v casual fight. While there are hardcore players who understand the 1 week wait and even some supporting 4 week wait and casuals who say there shouldn't be any gating, normally people just get into telling others "you don't understand casual/hardcore player."

And if you haven't been able to tell its about the same 10 people posting. Just an argument which actually is quite mild compared to some others.

Edited for hardcores in support of 4 week wait.
Edited by Petriim on 8/2/2012 10:13 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Paladin
15820
08/02/2012 10:00 AMPosted by Kuruption
I think the point he was trying to make was that the raids are 1 week locks instead of no locks. Preventing people from downing all content in 1-2 days instead of 1-2 weeks.


I knew where he was coming from, but people do have alts that can raid. So that was my point.

As for as this subject goes, it's whatever. Blizzard can do what they want. No point in arguing it anymore really from my point of view.


Ya I forgot about alts. People will still be burst leveling those. That does actually make me a bit more likely to support no gating since I'm going to guess hardcore guilds will still be power leveling, it just won't be 1 or 2 characters such as beginning of T11 but 4-5. So even that wouldn't change.
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85 Human Warlock
15190
08/02/2012 09:59 AMPosted by Numbasix
You could equally say that your inability to wait is a player issue.


It's not an inability to wait it's a lack of choice. In a situation of no gating player's have choices and decisions to make. In a situation of an arbitrary gate players have no choice.

08/02/2012 10:02 AMPosted by Petriim
And if you haven't been able to tell its about the same 10 people posting. Just an argument which actually is quite mild compared to some others.


Yeah at this point it pretty much is nothing more than seeing who'll get the last word in. It's childish but I find it funny when people say they lack self-control and need Blizzard to regulate their playtime and playstyle.
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100 Worgen Druid
17885
08/02/2012 10:02 AMPosted by Petriim
While there are hardcore players who understand the 1 week wait (actually haven't found a hardcore who likes the 4 week wait though)


I am a hardcore raider and I am fine with a 4 week wait. I was fine with it before the Blue confirmed if you want to go and check my post on page 6.

So ya, lets cut all this stereotyping that "all hardcores hate this and all casuals hate that".
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90 Draenei Paladin
15820
08/02/2012 10:11 AMPosted by Tyrnyx
While there are hardcore players who understand the 1 week wait (actually haven't found a hardcore who likes the 4 week wait though)


I am a hardcore raider and I am fine with a 4 week wait. I was fine with it before the Blue confirmed if you want to go and check my post on page 6.

So ya, lets cut all this stereotyping that "all hardcores hate this and all casuals hate that".


Edited my post to show hardcores who do support 4 week delay.
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100 Worgen Druid
17885
:) thanks
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85 Human Warlock
15190
And my account was just closed. Did I upset someone?
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100 Troll Rogue
21560
08/02/2012 09:43 AMPosted by Kuruption
Wasn't the reason that most hardcore guilds were unhappy with T11 was because Blizzard was changing the fights during people's attempts?

Some of both. I went back and looked at interviews with top end guilds about T11 and the two big complaints I saw were bugginess and length.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
16620
08/02/2012 09:55 AMPosted by Mcbenys
I don't think anyone is really upset about the first week.


That's actually the only thing I'm upset about. Raiding is the sole reason I play this game. Not that I don't do other stuff, but if raids weren't in the game I wouldn't play. So saying I cant raid the first week of an expansion is a big kick in the face.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
1785
It's not an inability to wait it's a lack of choice. In a situation of no gating player's have choices and decisions to make. In a situation of an arbitrary gate players have no choice.


Yes you have a choice between :

a) Not experiencing content you want to rush to raid thereby not letting down your guild.

b) Experiencing the content that you want to, but letting down your raid team.

Both of which have negative consequences. So they are sparing you from having to make a bad choice. Besides you have the choice to raid or not raid. You can raid DS, it will be open and available if you want. Same with the two new world bosses. It is the false to say we are taking away your choice. We could take your example to the extreme? Is Blizzard taking away your choice by not letting your material that will be released 8 months from now with patch 5.1 at the release of MoP? No they are not.
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100 Troll Rogue
21560
08/02/2012 10:18 AMPosted by Bigmac
I don't think anyone is really upset about the first week.


That's actually the only thing I'm upset about. Raiding is the sole reason I play this game. Not that I don't do other stuff, but if raids weren't in the game I wouldn't play. So saying I cant raid the first week of an expansion is a big kick in the face.

This keeps reminding me more and more of the 10 and 25 shared lockout thread.

People are busily agreeing about being upset over the changes while disgreeing completely about which change is the problem.
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