MoP raid releases will be staggered

90 Troll Druid
11615
08/02/2012 10:15 AMPosted by Mcbenys
And my account was just closed. Did I upset someone?


I haven't seen any of your posts reported lately, so /shrug.
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90 Human Death Knight
12455
08/02/2012 10:15 AMPosted by Mcbenys
And my account was just closed. Did I upset someone?

You didn't realize I have that power?

Next time perhaps you'll be quicker to agree with me.

/flex
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85 Draenei Hunter
11685
08/02/2012 09:58 AMPosted by Petriim
Anyways, @Karamok, if you are going to argue for the raid gating at least try understand where the hardcore raiders are coming from. They aren't lifeless people who do nothing but play WoW. They are people with an actual life who play this game for a different reason as you.


I'm not arguing against raiding for the sake of prohibiting raiding. I even said I understand where you're coming from but that I think the arguments against it are mostly silly.

In BC I believe I was the 6th person to reach max level. I wanted to be faster but I had a job and yada yada 6th was the best I could do. I love the thrill of leveling quickly, the race of being the first to reach the end, but I also love leveling and welcome the chance to stop and smell the roses this time.

I may not look like a hardcore raider to you, but raiding is my favorite pursuit in this game. I get where you're coming from but I don't think you're really missing out on so much that the arguments I'm seeing are justified.

08/02/2012 09:55 AMPosted by Mcbenys
Yes they can it's called personal responsibility.


Your naivete is showing.

In principle you're absolutely right, but that's just not how the world works.

Anyway, I think that the delay also has the benefit of helping other top guilds whose only obstacle to success is time. If Blood Legion was still as capable, but only raided 2 nights a week they wouldn't have a shot at anything.

My personal opinion is that sheer availability of free time should not be the deciding factor for World Firsts. That's holding a race that starts for everyone, even though not everyone is ready. You could argue that everyone who wants to be in the race should be ready, but that's not a smart way to conduct a race.

You give your participants a start time and date, sufficient time to prepare and then begin the race with everyone in their starting positions.

Otherwise the argument becomes "I have more free time than other players and I need that advantage in order to beat them."

Again, what strikes me as most odd is the argument that 'Blizzard shouldn't stop me from raiding MoP when I want' as if right now Blizzard isn't already preventing you from raiding MoP by not having it ready.
Edited by Karamok on 8/2/2012 10:32 AM PDT
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90 Troll Shaman
6655
While there are hardcore players who understand the 1 week wait (actually haven't found a hardcore who likes the 4 week wait though)


I am a hardcore raider and I am fine with a 4 week wait. I was fine with it before the Blue confirmed if you want to go and check my post on page 6.

So ya, lets cut all this stereotyping that "all hardcores hate this and all casuals hate that".


I would consider myself hardcore and I am the complete opposite. I guess the thing that irks me the most is that they want us to pay for an expansion, but the part of the game that I enjoy is not being released right away. Its kind of like they threw up the preorders then slapped people who were excited to push their rank up with "hey you know that week a couple members of your guild took off work to raid and are super excited to do, yeah they can now enjoy leveling!".

I think if the content was gated by player skill rather than blizzard I would be far more ok with this. Also for my guild at least this means that a ton more leveling of alts to make it easier to raid stack will happen. In my mind this will cause us to burn through normal/H vaults even faster then if we just went in there with our mains.
Edited by Haxzors on 8/2/2012 10:33 AM PDT
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85 Draenei Hunter
11685
Every expac you have to wait for content. I feel like people are just looking for the silliest reasoning.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
1785
Just out of curiosity what is the definition of a hardcore raider? My definition is someone from a top 20 guild. Are most people calling themselves hardcore in this thread from a top 20 guild?
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90 Worgen Druid
16700

Its kind of like they threw up the preorders then slapped people who were excited to push their rank up with "hey you know that week a couple members of your guild took off work to raid and are super excited to do, yeah they can now enjoy leveling!".


Yea, my guild is very lucky that we told people not to take time off until we confirmed our raiding plans. I agree that Blizzard should have included the raid release schedule with the MoP release announcement to avoid this kind of thing, because history let people believe raids would be out 1st week.
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90 Worgen Druid
16700
08/02/2012 10:38 AMPosted by Numbasix
Just out of curiosity what is the definition of a hardcore raider? My definition is someone from a top 20 guild. Are most people calling themselves hardcore in this thread from a top 20 guild?


I am calling myself a hardcore raider because during DS my guild was pushing top 20 world kills in the first week. If it does not count because my guild ended as being ranked US 10th for 10mans then so be it.

edit: just to be clear, I am in no way saying that my guild or myself is on the lvl of the top guilds in the world. I am speaking only for myself, not for my guildies, and not for other guilds above, at, or below my ranking
Edited by Tyrnyx on 8/2/2012 10:45 AM PDT
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90 Human Death Knight
12455
08/02/2012 10:38 AMPosted by Numbasix
Just out of curiosity what is the definition of a hardcore raider? My definition is someone from a top 20 guild. Are most people calling themselves hardcore in this thread from a top 20 guild?

There is no commonly agreed-upon definition.

The reality is that raiders come in all shapes and sizes and widely varying levels of skill, interest or commitment across a long continuum.

But on the forums, we keep trying to shove this huge and varied population into exactly two discrete boxes ("hardcore" and "casual") and pit them against each other.

It makes no sense, but it makes for long, acrimonious threads. So I guess that's something.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
1785
What I find funny is that it will take most players at least 2-3 days to level and gear up and that is if you are running things constantly and minimizing the amount of sleep you get. That means they will have to wait 4 days to raid from the time they would be ready.

I mean if people are so addicted to the game that they cannot wait 4 days, they probably need to seek a some professional help because their wow addiction is bordering on a !@#$%^ addiction.
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90 Troll Druid
11615
What I find funny is that it will take most players at least 2-3 days to level and gear up and that is if you are running things constantly and minimizing the amount of sleep you get. That means they will have to wait 4 days to raid from the time they would be ready.

I mean if people are so addicted to the game that they cannot wait 4 days, they probably need to seek a some professional help because their wow addiction is bordering on a !@#$%^ addiction.


The thing, some people enjoy leveling like crazy and then raiding as fast as they can. It's what they enjoy. And it only happens every 2-3 years. So taking that from them is why you see people here expressing their disappointment/anger in this thread.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
1785
There is no commonly agreed-upon definition.

The reality is that raiders come in all shapes and sizes and widely varying levels of skill, interest or commitment across a long continuum.

But on the forums, we keep trying to shove this huge and varied population into exactly two discrete boxes ("hardcore" and "casual") and pit them against each other.

It makes no sense, but it makes for long, acrimonious threads. So I guess that's something.


I completely agree you. For most people I have found their definition of hardcore is themselves and everyone above them and casual is everyone who is less skilled or plays less than them. That is one reason I threw out a crazy definition for hardcore. Personally I just wish we could throw out the terms hardcore and casual as they seem to be used acrimoniously.
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90 Worgen Druid
16700

The thing, some people enjoy leveling like crazy and then raiding as fast as they can. It's what they enjoy. And it only happens every 2-3 years. So taking that from them is why you see people here expressing their disappointment/anger in this thread.


But we do still have the World Bosses to race to. And if anything it is more of a rush because if you are too slow they will be downed already and unavailable. I do understand the frustration though.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11680
Staggering is fine, IMO - even for the folks who play 80+ hours that first week, you're going to be pretty hard-pressed to be raid-geared for heroic T14. I guess I'm all right with LFR coming active about a week after normal Vaults as the really hardcore progression folks will be in there first and help identify anything major that might need a hotfix in that first week or so. They also get to be the first ones on the block with the gear before people finishing 5-man heroics are done and ready for LFR (myself included, probably).

Those guilds that're going to gear 5-man heroics, some crafted epics and jump right into Normal as soon as they can really do deserve that window of a couple of weeks where that's the only option.
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90 Undead Priest
16470
I don't think anyone is really upset about the first week. I kind of wish it wasn't there but meh whatever at this point. I think the frustration comes from two normal mode instances not being available for four weeks. There simply is no vaild reason.


I'll state that I wish Blizzard had not used hard gating but instead attunments that required rep farming to move to new instances... However we know their stance on attunments and how they will never return (sad face).

As for there being no valid reason? How about the fact that I don't want my instance being nerfed just as I first step into it (and don't try and tell me that I can turn the buff off).

When MoP launches I will have ~10 hours a week to play which works fantastically when you are settled down into a raiding schedule (we raid 7.5 hours a week, never more). So why does the above matter? Well, because I expect the instances to be nerfed within ~2 months of release (if not sooner). By delaying the more difficult raids a month, me and my guild will have time to level and gear ourselves in time for the release of the final raids AND actually have time to spend in them before the nerf bat swings (both in the form of the buff and the random hotfixes they always make).
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85 Draenei Hunter
11685
08/02/2012 10:49 AMPosted by Kuruption
The thing, some people enjoy leveling like crazy and then raiding as fast as they can. It's what they enjoy. And it only happens every 2-3 years. So taking that from them is why you see people here expressing their disappointment/anger in this thread.


That's a totally valid concern and you're certainly a casualty of this decision in that regard, and I sincerely empathize, despite the way my posts come across.

Do you think there's a way to adjust the goal to fit the new circumstances?

The race to firsts is a minigame that arose from the existing format. If raids had always been delayed a week, what would the most hardcore guilds do? Farm up the best possible gear through crafting, instances and dailies?

I'm just thinking out loud, but instead of letting this simply be a setback, could you create a new minigame for release that would be equally thrilling and maybe even more challenging?
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85 Tauren Druid
8750
Its not even a hardcore vs. Casual discussion.

Its a Hey I have been waiting for a new raid for 10 months why would you slap us in the face and make us wait longer for no reason.

If im Hardcore and want to gear up and kill it great.

If im casual and want to go in under geared and just dork around for fun cause im sick of running 5 mans thats great too.

If for some reason i want to say im "OVERWHELMED" by either option then i am just retarted.

Non of the things above are a reason to delay the release of content
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90 Troll Druid
11615
08/02/2012 11:03 AMPosted by Karamok
The thing, some people enjoy leveling like crazy and then raiding as fast as they can. It's what they enjoy. And it only happens every 2-3 years. So taking that from them is why you see people here expressing their disappointment/anger in this thread.


That's a totally valid concern and you're certainly a casualty of this decision in that regard, and I sincerely empathize, despite the way my posts come across.

Do you think there's a way to adjust the goal to fit the new circumstances?

The race to firsts is a minigame that arose from the existing format. If raids had always been delayed a week, what would the most hardcore guilds do? Farm up the best possible gear through crafting, instances and dailies?

I'm just thinking out loud, but instead of letting this simply be a setback, could you create a new minigame for release that would be equally thrilling and maybe even more challenging?


Like I said, this doesn't affect me in the slightest because I'm rolling a monk once Mists comes out. Even if they didn't put this gate up, I still wouldn't power level like crazy to raid that first week.

I understand Blizzard's decision and the people who like it, but I also understand people being mad about this too.
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