MoP raid releases will be staggered

90 Undead Priest
14805
I play to raid. I give 2 !@#$s about doing lame %^- dailies or horrible pet battles. I log on to raid that is all

...

Worst thing ever possible.


Funny, I only log on to raid and I think this is the best thing possible.

It sounds like the difference between me and you is that you have too much spare time and take this game too seriously and I just love to raid.

I personally cannot express how happy I am that Blizz is staggering content. Now not only will we not feel overwhelmed by too many bosses @ release but we also won't be bored as quickly. Seriously, what would you rather: A ton of bosses at release that you clear through quickly and then have to wait for more, or slow staggered releases causing less downtime between new raids?


I want to pace myself. Also, they aren't releasing a ton of bosses, they are releasing 6. They said they are 100% for sure on delaying HoF/ToES at least a week or two. So why delay the first instance as well? Heroics aren't a pushover most of the time, so I'll be happy and content for a longish time with heroic raids. What I hate is Blizzard stepping in and forcing something on us. If people want to go slow, fine do it, if people want to go fast, fine do it is how it should be rather than if you want to go slow, fine do it, if you want to go fast, NOPE.

I think I'm just sick of the double standards this game has. The whole "we don't want to stop player from playing their way" when it comes to casuals getting to raid etc, but the moment it is something to do with hardcore playing, we get shut down.

They are already gating content to make it last longer with over 1/2 the bosses, why do it with all of them? If the content really sucks that bad that they need to delay bosses 2-3 weeks so people aren't done with them in 2-3 weeks, that's the problem that needs addressed, not gating.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
0
07/30/2012 03:35 PMPosted by Poena
There's no reason to slow down the fastest guilds.


Maybe it's not about slowing the fastest guilds but instead not overwhelming the regular/slow guilds.

Most likely both, T11 hurt world first guilds as much as anyone else (RIP Cuties Only).
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90 Worgen Mage
15160
I think this is a fantastic idea. It lets people that like both raiding and stopping to smell the roses as they level up not feel like they have to choose, helps guilds that want to switch to using monks not be at such a huge disadvantage, and relieves the pressure to take off work and play unhealthy levels for the good of your guildmates if you don't really want to.


However, I'll echo a few comments already made that bear repeating:

- The gating shouldn't be TOO long. 1 week for normal mode Vaults is sufficient. 2-3 weeks after that for the next tier to show up should be fine - anything more is pushing it. I'd also be fine with spreading it over 4-6 weeks total, opening up only Heart of Fear next, and waiting a short while after that for Terrace.

- Heroic modes should only be gated with the specific instance (so clearing Vaults opens up heroic Vaults, clearing Heart of Fear opens up Heroic Heart of fear, and so on).


First, the gating is there because the follow up raids are being designed to be completed with gear from the previous ones. This is I believe in order to prevent many people and guilds who do not realise this to not try entering that raid first and being extremely undergeared thus having a higher difficulty than intended (thus having a whole bunch of people on the forums complaining how hard the instance is):

Both of these instances are a higher tier than the Mogu’shan Vaults and are designed to be tackled using gear obtained in the Vaults, which is why we plan to make them accessible a few weeks after the Vaults unlock.


If you look at the gear that has been datamined from mists at mop.wowhead.com you can see that the gear dropping in Heart of Fear has higher item levels across the board. It is being gated because it is actually tiered progression - one of the topics of a large conversation on the forums recently, which I find very interesting.

Last, as long as the normal modes are not undertuned as they were in DS, the average completion of the vast majority of raiding guilds should be a lot longer than 1 week. The majority of raiding guilds took about a month to get the body of players through Firelands and T11 was even longer. I do not see 1 week being any issue except to those guilds on the bleeding edge of progression and I think Blizzard feels ensuring that there is clear notice that there is difficulty differences between the tiers is preferred over the irritation of what would be a very small section of the raiding population.

I want to jump into raids ASAP myself and look forward to heroics, but I for one will be very disappointed if we clear all normal modes in 1 week of starting them. That is what LFR is for.

Personally I am happy there is a tiered progresion system in place for the first set of raids and will be very interested to see how it goes. I also cannot help but be amused at the poster who not long ago in another thread stated categorically that Blizzard will never introduce tiered progression again...
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85 Human Warlock
15190
07/30/2012 03:35 PMPosted by Poena
As I asked in the thread a ~month ago... how does it hurt you if you have to wait a little for your raid content? Why is waiting such a big deal?


And how are you hurt if myself and others don't wait and clear stuff sooner than you?

There is no way to be "left behind" when we are all in the same tier, doing the same encounters, and clearing the same stuff.

edit: I can't type
Edited by Mcbenys on 7/30/2012 5:07 PM PDT
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90 Worgen Druid
16890
07/30/2012 03:21 PMPosted by Mcbenys
A full week to prep for raiding is going to be nice.


I don't think anyone is concerned about a week. The concern is about more than a week. If October 2nd means vaults is open a reasonable timetable is the later two raids normal modes and heroic vaults are one week later (October 9th) but note that blog said a few weeks.

There's no reason to slow down the fastest guilds.


"Mists of Pandaria will also include two other raid zones, which we plan to make available a few weeks after Mogu’shan Vaults: the Heart of the Fear and Terrace of Endless Spring."

It sounds like we are getting Vaults, then Vaults heroic the next week as normal (because they didn't mention any change in how heroic will unlock) followed by the other two raids.

I see no issue at all with releasing them 1 raid at a time. It changes nothing other than the order you go after the bosses. The other two raids are a half tier above anyways, so its more like we get MoP with a smaller intro raid and then essentially a full 2nd tier worth of content (10 bosses).
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Yeah this should work out a little better for the less skilled raider.

Allowing more time ability to gear up before even tackling the LFR of the later raids.

It should work out pretty well.
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90 Draenei Shaman
8755
Yeah this should work out a little better for the less skilled raider.

Allowing more time ability to gear up before even tackling the LFR of the later raids.

It should work out pretty well.


See, if you don't properly gate LFR then you're actually not fixing a problem at all. Xav hit it spot on when it comes to progression guilds going for server/world firsts. If LFR isn't gated an extra 1-2 weeks ontop of what other raids would be for normal mode you're in essence accomplishing nothing by this.

Week 1 - Expansion Release
Week 2 - Vaults opened
Week 3 - LFR Vaults opened
Week 4 - Heart and Terrence opened
Week 5 - LFR Heart and Terrence opened

This would be the most ideal way of doing things, if they are dead set on gating. The faster guilds would have time to breath, while the slower guilds would have time to relax. The medium guilds won't be effected at all, outside of the proper pacing would be in effect due to LFR not borking the gearing up process. The fights should be new for raiders walking into normal mode if they are indeed raiders, not getting backpeddle experience from breakinng LFR.

Let's face it, the initial tier has to be balanced around heroic 5 man loot, not LFR gear due to the time it takes to get access of it. Doing this really any other way would defeat the purpose, because once you start to grab LFR gear (which is pure luck in MoP) you begin to outgear the content.
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90 Orc Death Knight
16325
I assume they would stagger LFR as well, they did it to some degree with DS (making it so you couldn't complete the second half on the first week). So I imagine they will do something similar.

People will have more than enough content to munch on when the expansion is released. LFR being released right away and more or less obsoleting 5 mans which are a couple weeks old would indeed be terrible design.
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85 Night Elf Druid
13030
07/30/2012 03:35 PMPosted by Poena
Maybe it's not about slowing the fastest guilds but instead not overwhelming the regular/slow guilds.... as well as helping prevent burnout by staggering content releases and therefor having less down-time between tiers as well as more time spent on new content.


Staggering the first tier won't have much to do with the 3rd tier lasting a full year.

Also, lowest common denominator slippery slope argument, I have a friend who hasn't hit 85 yet this expansion, they should have staggered Tier 11 for him, and not released it yet. It's no fair he won't be able to compete for world first.
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90 Human Paladin
12580
07/30/2012 06:41 PMPosted by Gròmmash
LFR being released right away and more or less obsoleting 5 mans which are a couple weeks old would indeed be terrible design.


I haven't been keeping track, but aren't 5 mans intended to provide points for upgrading raid drops?
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90 Orc Death Knight
16325
I think they can, but those kind of points are obtainable in lots of places IIRC. Challenge modes, scenarios, dailies and raiding I believe?

I think this overall model works if they keep at it for the entire expansion. If the second and third tier is just a single instance with 6-8 bosses, then we are right back to square one. If the second and third tier have two split raids with roughly ~10 bosses, then I think it will work out.
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90 Worgen Mage
20360
07/30/2012 06:49 PMPosted by Gròmmash
I think this overall model works if they keep at it for the entire expansion. If the second and third tier is just a single instance with 6-8 bosses, then we are right back to square one. If the second and third tier have two split raids with roughly ~10 bosses, then I think it will work out.


Agreed, and updated dailies + world boss loot each tier too :)
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14475
07/30/2012 05:05 PMPosted by Mcbenys
There is no way to be "left behind" when we are all in the same tier, doing the same encounters, and clearing the same stuff.


Yeah, the people who have a job or a family and can't spend 120 hours in the first week powerleveling to 90, maxing out their toons and then spending a few days in the raid trying to cram it down their throats like popcorn at the movies.

Anything that rewards skill over time investment is good, IMHO
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
0
I'm pretty keen to see what the world first guilds have to say about this. I don't think they'll have a problem with it either after the insanity that was T11. Postponing raid content for 7 days isn't going to kill anyone.
Edited by Verelyse on 7/30/2012 7:32 PM PDT
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90 Undead Priest
14805
07/30/2012 07:03 PMPosted by Lusignan
There is no way to be "left behind" when we are all in the same tier, doing the same encounters, and clearing the same stuff.


Yeah, the people who have a job or a family and can't spend 120 hours in the first week powerleveling to 90, maxing out their toons and then spending a few days in the raid trying to cram it down their throats like popcorn at the movies.

Anything that rewards skill over time investment is good, IMHO


This game doesn't reward skill, hence LFR. I'd rather it reward time investment rather than not rewarding anything useful.
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90 Undead Priest
14805
07/30/2012 07:31 PMPosted by Verelyse
I'm pretty keen to see what the world first guilds have to say about this. I don't think they'll have a problem with it either after the insanity that was T11. Postponing raid content for 7 days isn't going to kill anyone.


Just means more weeks off from work for them, which I doubt is fully possible for a lot of them. Pretty much they'll need a month off of work in a row to remain competitive.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
0
07/30/2012 07:33 PMPosted by Telepathy
This game doesn't reward skill, hence LFR.

The fact that preschool exists doesn't imply that going to college isn't rewarding. :|

07/30/2012 07:34 PMPosted by Telepathy
I'm pretty keen to see what the world first guilds have to say about this. I don't think they'll have a problem with it either after the insanity that was T11. Postponing raid content for 7 days isn't going to kill anyone.


Just means more weeks off from work for them, which I doubt is fully possible for a lot of them. Pretty much they'll need a month off of work in a row to remain competitive.

Perhaps. I don't intend to speak for them, I'm just interested in what they'll have to say.
Edited by Verelyse on 7/30/2012 7:37 PM PDT
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