MoP raid releases will be staggered

100 Human Priest
18915
Thank god, I dont have to rush 10 85s to lvl 90 to raid.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
0
08/01/2012 10:05 AMPosted by Crithto
We’ve been keeping a very close eye on the feedback players have shared for both Cataclysm and Mists of Pandaria raiding


You guys should come talk to us more often. :)
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85 Troll Hunter
7360
LOVE the idea of adding some gates on the content.

WE NEED MORE TIMED GATES ON CONTENT

In fact, I strongly urge you to give us at least 2-3 weeks BEFORE releasing the raid content period.

WHAT HAVE WE LEARNED IN CATA/WRATH? - WE'RE THE FAT KID!

There will always be players who scream "OMG I WANT TO DO IT NAO!!!", just like when you bake a cake there's always the fat kid who wants to eat the whole thing right now. We want it all, we want it now, and then we want to QQ for months that we've "done everything and are so bored!!". It's called burnout, and we've demonstrated we can't be trusted with too much content too fast.

EXPAC BEGINNING = IT'S TIME TO LEVEL AND HAVE FUN, NOT BE PRESSURED TO RAID

Here's what we are going to have just 1 Week to accomplish:

1. Level our mains to 90. There are a ton of us that are NOT in a hurry to do this, seeing as we've spent the better part of the last 18 months at max level on our mains. It would be refreshing to get back to leveling and explore without the pressure of OMG GOTTA GEAR UP TO RAID NAO!!

2. Begin gearing for raiding through 5 mans. Again, 1 week to BOTH hit 90 and gear up to raid? It's just not enough time.

3. Start raiding.

RECOMMENDATIONS:

- Add 1 more week before raid content is released
- Only release 1/2 the raid content in the first month of raiding
- Release the rest of the raid content in the second month of raiding
Edited by Boomerang on 8/1/2012 11:23 AM PDT
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100 Night Elf Druid
23785
Yay for limiting players even more with what we can do... /sigh

What happened to being able to enjoying the game at our own pace?
That is the reason Draztal keeps throwing at us justifying LFR lack of difficulty and progressive nerfs to normal and heroic modes. Why sudden change of heart?

I wish this info was released at the same time with the release date at least! I know a lot of people who are huge WoW fans that took a week or two off. I wonder if they would have asked for leave if they knew they won't have anything to do because Blizzard knows better than we do whats good for ourselves.

Heaven forbid someone doesn't want to do dailes, challenge modes, archaeology and pet battles! You buy a game you've been waiting for almost two years and the game gets to you with all content that you enjoy (raids) locked. Very funny!
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100 Worgen Druid
17900
I am hoping that this is just a start of what my be a really nicely released expansion in terms of content.

If we see T14 raid 1, then a month later T14 raid 2 (1/2tier ilvl above), then a month later T14 raid 3(1/2tier ilvl above) it will extend content into what would then be 3-5 months until the next tier which would only be a half tier above the last raid of T14. If T15 had multiple raids staggered in like that it would create a system where each tier flows into harder content until the next tier while keeping the gear much closer and allowing the feeling of more content since it is being released more slowly.

Looking at this my ideal release schedule would be:
MoP Release
1 week later MV - base tier ilvl
1 month later HoF - 1/2 ilvl increase
1 month later Terrace
5 months later T15 part 1 - 2nd tier ilvl up
1 month later T15 part 2 - 1/2 ilvl up
5 months later T16 part 1 - 3rd tier ilvl
1 month later T16 part 2 - 1/2 ilvl up
6 months later next Xpac

It would be a nice way to keep a good flow of ilvl through the tiers and allow it to make sense to transition between tiers for gear reasons rather than just farming LFR.
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100 Human Death Knight
22465
LOVE the idea of adding some gates on the content.

WE NEED MORE TIMED GATES ON CONTENT

In fact, I strongly urge you to give us at least 2-3 weeks BEFORE releasing the raid content period.

WHAT HAVE WE LEARNED IN CATA/WRATH? - WE'RE THE FAT KID!

There will always be players who scream "OMG I WANT TO DO IT NAO!!!", just like when you bake a cake there's always the fat kid who wants to eat the whole thing right now. We want it all, we want it now, and then we want to QQ for months that we've "done everything and are so bored!!". It's called burnout, and we've demonstrated we can't be trusted with too much content too fast.

EXPAC BEGINNING = IT'S TIME TO LEVEL AND HAVE FUN, NOT BE PRESSURED TO RAID

Here's what we are going to have just 1 Week to accomplish:

1. Level our mains to 90. There are a ton of us that are NOT in a hurry to do this, seeing as we've spent the better part of the last 18 months at max level on our mains. It would be refreshing to get back to leveling and explore without the pressure of OMG GOTTA GEAR UP TO RAID NAO!!

2. Begin gearing for raiding through 5 mans. Again, 1 week to BOTH hit 90 and gear up to raid? It's just not enough time.

3. Start raiding.

RECOMMENDATIONS:

- Add 1 more week before raid content is released
- Only release 1/2 the raid content in the first month of raiding
- Release the rest of the raid content in the second month of raiding


How about this, if you want to take the game slowly....go for it. I'm not interested in artificial gating of raid bosses. I'd rather a boss be unkillable because we're not geared enough for it versus not even being able to attempt a boss because omg it's not 7 days after the expac hits.

Open the flood gates, if people arn't able to commit to that kind of play style...too bad.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13990
Crithto, I believe the question most people want to know is how long of "couple weeks" is it between Mogu'shan Vaults and Heart of Fear. I believe it's fine since we'll have 6 heroic bosses to work on, but if you release Heart of Fear in the holidays, then it's something else.

Also, I believe if you enable heroic mode at same time as normal modes, nobody would complain about the 1 week delay (which is good idea btw, if I knew before I would have used my vacation week somewhere else lol). For any heroic raider that week delay wouldn't make much of a difference if we had access to heroic mode from the start.
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100 Orc Shaman
HC
19310
Yay for limiting players even more with what we can do... /sigh

What happened to being able to enjoying the game at our own pace?
That is the reason Draztal keeps throwing at us justifying LFR lack of difficulty and progressive nerfs to normal and heroic modes. Why sudden change of heart?

I wish this info was released at the same time with the release date at least! I know a lot of people who are huge WoW fans that took a week or two off. I wonder if they would have asked for leave if they knew they won't have anything to do because Blizzard knows better than we do whats good for ourselves.

Heaven forbid someone doesn't want to do dailes, challenge modes, archaeology and pet battles! You buy a game you've been waiting for almost two years and the game gets to you with all content that you enjoy (raids) locked. Very funny!


Sadly I have to agree with this. I personally didn't plan to raid until a week after release anyways, but if someone wants to raid and clear all 16 bosses on normal in the first week why should Blizzard prevent that? I know it can't be for the sake of competition since every competing guild for world first has been doing such for quite a long time and know what comes with it.

I don't see why Blizzard has to get involved in players choices, it's their choice and Blizzard advocates it's your choice but then they limit what you can do even if it's for a week because "some" players feel overwhelmed because they're not mature enough to know their limits? Not logic I really understand ;s. I'm more surprised at the principles of this decision over everything, because I know I won't be done with vaults in 1-2 weeks lol.
Edited by Sensations on 8/1/2012 11:36 AM PDT
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90 Human Death Knight
12455
I overall don't mind this plan, though it won't impact me much (I expect to raid for all of MoP, but I don't intend to be level 90 and raiding the second week any more than the first).

I guess the one piece of feedback I'd give is - do what you can to help players feel like they can "take their time" and encourage players to not feel pressured to rush. That includes not coming too early with the nerf bat.

I hate "racing the nerfs." I felt like they came a little too fast in Cata. I'm not bashing the idea in general - I appreciate the purpose and need for progressive nerfs over time. But a little more time - especially early in the raiding cycle - would make raiding feel a little more fun for me personally.
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Whoa whoa, there is no need for name-calling; Neryssa, I'm not an "LFR Bad"; but thanks for the overgeneralizing asinine comment.

My question is logical. You can't walk into a 397 i-level raid wearing all 346's; the same way we weren't able to waltz into 359 raids with 333 gear (and not 346 gear at the least). Going from 463 to item levels that are nearly 20-units higher is a pretty large jump; that is why I asked.

And frankly, that only works if the first 2 bosses are relatively forgiving fights--otherwise they turn into blocks. I seem to remember 10-man Ulduar being 219 and people in 10-man only raiding gear back in Wrath (i-level 200) were having a very tough time with that jump.
Edited by Superdaedra on 8/1/2012 11:44 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13990
08/01/2012 10:51 AMPosted by Seraphion
What's the point of opening up raid finder a week later? I didn't understand it with DS and I don't understand it now.


You should be thankful LFR doesn't open on first week. Can you imagine going in LFR where everybody has no clue how to do the boss? At least by delaying one week, you will have people who have done the encounters in normal mode in your raids to help you.

And on the other hand, it gives the opportunity to raiders to experience the content in normal mode before you spoil it doing LFR.
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100 Night Elf Druid
15970
I might be misreading but are you saying we will do

Normal MSV > Heroic MSV > Normal HoF/Terrace > Heroic HoF/Terrace

Seems wonky, but again I might just be misreading.
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11 Gnome Mage
0
My question is logical. You can't walk into a 397 i-level raid wearing all 346's; the same way we weren't able to waltz into 359 raids with 333 gear (and not 346 gear at the least). Going from 463 to item levels that are nearly 20-units higher is a pretty large jump; that is why I asked.


Even if you fully cleared LFR before the first week of normal raiding and had amazingly perfect luck, you'd be looking at maybe 1 item per raider being upgraded. That's not likely to be the difference between a clear or not.
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90 Draenei Paladin
6925
I definately prefer a slower release.
Catering to the players that have the attention span of a gnat does the game no favors, slower release gives everyone time to level, get geared, then step into the raid and start working on it before other raids have moved in and made the one you've just begun obsolete. Nax and Ulduar were cheated by the release of ICC, many guilds didn't even clear them, same thing for Firelands in Cat, good content, but many players haven't set foot into that raid because DS came out with the Hour of Twilight 5-mans and made the Firelands raid obsolete.

at what point do we say, okay everyone is as far as they're going to get? I was sitting at 6/7H on FL for quite a while, i wanna say the better part of 8 lock outs. We couldn't get the AoE right for seeds on HC, and so we just weren't gonna clear that boss before the new tier. I didn't feel like I got jipped, i just felt like we didn't have our stuff together to do it. Did all the people that never beat emerald or ruby weapon in ff7 miss out on something amazing, or were the encounters just a little outside their reach, and it's okay that they were?

It's sad to kill off good content just because a tiny percentage of the playerbase denied themselves sleep or sunlight and finished the raid the first week it was out. Those players shouldn't control the pace, there should be an "average" between the hardcores and the casuals that sets the pace so that content isn't made obsolete too soon thus denying it to alot of guilds that would have done it but now know they shouldn't if they want to remain "current".

Again, just because content might be a little out of reach for your group doesn't mean people 'denied themselves sunlight'.

I 25man raided 6 hours a week through cata with one guild, and then did ds 6-9 hours a week on 10 man with another.

The work i put in between the two guilds was substantial, but each by themselves is no more than what most 'casual' guilds do. I got madness kills at 20% in both those guilds, and spine went down at 15%.

Do I think we could have made it without a nerf? probably not, but i do think we could have cleared at 10%.

It's sad that Firelands became obsolete so soon, sad that Nax and Ulduar did, I'm glad Blizz is learning from those mistakes. The hardcores can suck it up and do some of the other things this expansion is offering, like the pet battles, farming etc, and the casuals can step up and leave those things for later and get themselves into the raids and experience them before they become obsolete alongside the hardcores who will need the less fast paced players to fill the raid slots left empty by the players with gnat-like attention spans that have already quit playing until the next patch. It's a better system.

Firelands is not anything like naxx and ulduar. Naxx and Ulduar had 14-15 bosses, and were
actually pretty large swaths of time. Naxx was current for 5 months, or 20 lock outs (Nov - April), that might be pretty short for most bosses as it would assume you we're clearing a new boss each week. Ulduar was 4 months, so 16 lock outs, again, a boss a week, not exactly fair, especially for 'casuals' that might have hit a road block boss (mim, general, etc)

Firelands was 5 months, for half as many bosses, the nerfs came quickly on that one, and people just wrecked it by the time 5 and 10% were out.

Blizzard might also consider upgrading gear in exhisting raids as they release new ones, allowing exhisting raids to gear people for new content, not just through heroic modes. How many people would still be running Firelands if it dropped 390s instead of 378s? Not as good as the 397s and 401s of DS, but good enough to let people gear more easily into something like DS. It would promote people spending more time in an exhisting raid as they move into the new one, instead of dropping it like a dead roach and crying about there not being enough to do.


I here ya here, and this is why so many of the so called 'hardcore' players were pushing for atunements or ilvl gaps between raids of the same patch. This makes it so every player that has seen endgame, has also seen the story leading up to it. The downside, is it can lead to naax 40 scenarios, where a very small percentage of the player base has even stepped into the raid.

And for the record, I love the idea of gating this content. T11 was a CF trying to figure out how your guild was going to progress. If you were like my 10 man at the time (casual, normal progression only, 1-2 nights a week), We did up to maloriak, up to council, and skipped ToFW until a week or two before FL came out. With the gating, there will at least be a definite way forward even for the casual guilds. I'd like to see the Sha of Fear raid happen a few weeks after the other one since that is, as far as i can tell, the last raid of the tier.
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100 Human Death Knight
22465


How about this, if you want to take the game slowly....go for it. I'm not interested in artificial gating of raid bosses. I'd rather a boss be unkillable because we're not geared enough for it versus not even being able to attempt a boss because omg it's not 7 days after the expac hits.

Open the flood gates, if people arn't able to commit to that kind of play style...too bad.


Yes, typical fat kid reasoning. "I want to eat the whole cake and create a pressurized environment where everyone has to feel like they have to keep up with me. I don't care if others want to actually enjoy it."

Like I said, the player base can't be trusted to gate ourselves. Your post is a perfect example of why (read the last couple words of your post if you can't figure out what I mean).


Actually enjoy it? I actually enjoy raiding when it's cutting edge, beginning of the expansion is a perfect time. You're right though, I DON'T care if others can down the content at the same pace or are even ahead of where I'm at.

As for you enjoying your content, I hope that's just an alt you prefer to troll the forums on, otherwise I'm inclined to ask what you're waiting on to "enjoy" all of the current content.

Also, the only way you can gate yourself is by lack of skill or lack of time to push the content. Neither of which is helped by waiting a week to release the content.

I smell a troll.
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Well, perhaps I'm not explaining my question very well.

Between tiers of difficulty; there is typically a 12-13 item level difference in the gear that drops; that used to be the way you determined (and even the way many third party sites determine) what content should be optimal or trivial for you.

With the item level of stuff from heroics being 463 and the item level of "normal" mode Mogushan being 483 -- that is a 20-item level difference; which in most cases is too much of a jump (bosses might hit too hard scaled to gear/dps budgets might be higher than possible)..etc etc.

LFR seems to bridge that gap in this case since its ilevel is 476. It was just odd to me to stagger LFR behind releasing the normal mode when it would just seem most woudlnt even be able to logically clear it
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100 Night Elf Druid
23785
I really really don't understand these forced limitations and the reasoning behind them.

The only possible reason behind them seems to be to punish the players who have more time.
How does my gaming experience, if I want to play 12h per day and raid 3 days after the release, affect anyone else who doesn't want to do that? Please, just let me play the game at my own pace!

If you want players to complete the content in a specific order then make linear raids and beating the endboss of the first raid a requirement to try the second raid (which is what you are kinda doing... which is also very similar to attunements that you have been hating on... at the same time even entering LFR has an attunement kinda with the ilvl requirement).

This time-gated content is very similar to the horrible idea of limited attempts on bosses we had in ICC.

MoP has been hyped as a salvation for raiding! A fresh, exciting raiding content with 16 complex 16 raid bosses on release... now its turning out to be 0 bosses on release, with 8 bosses for the first month (or more) and then 8 more later. Very dissapointing!
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90 Human Mage
12825
Here’s a basic breakdown of the pattern we’d like to follow for all upcoming raids: Dungeon opens on normal difficulty --> Heroic mode is unlocked once normal mode is completed --> the Raid Finder version becomes available about one week after the raid’s initial opening. To review all of the latest Mists raid release details, everyone is encouraged to check out our latest blog, Blizzard Insider #45 – Mists of Pandaria – Raid Preview, which has a wealth of exciting new information.


I am a little confused so:

Raid Normal opens up, then the Heroic opens up a week later for the raid at the same time LFR opens up a week after the normal raid opens up?

Its very interesting, I am curious as to why there is a 2 week delay on the LFR though.
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