MoP raid releases will be staggered

90 Draenei Paladin
15820
4 weeks seems like a bit too much. I hope that MV is quite hard. From looking at some of the beta tests some of them do look quite challenging especially Will of the Emperor while others could use some buffs but wouldnt there be quite a long down time? I can't imagine the top guilds taking 3 weeks to clear MV on heroic.

Though, would it seem better if one looked at MV as T14 and the others as T15?
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85 Night Elf Druid
17665
08/01/2012 01:30 PMPosted by Poena
just because they aren't releasing the raid at launch doesn't mean they ARE TAKING THINGS FROM YOU.


It actually does mean, quite literally, they're taking weeks of raid content away from him.

08/01/2012 01:30 PMPosted by Poena
It is a game


It's a game, why do they have to stagger content
It's a game bananas are pineapples

It's a game, Being used to argue anything since 1980.
Edited by Asanenine on 8/1/2012 1:32 PM PDT
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90 Human Death Knight
12455
08/01/2012 01:32 PMPosted by Asanenine
It actually does mean, quite literally, they're taking weeks of raid content away from him.

I'm not sure that's a fair assessment. Taking away 'farming' perhaps. The rest is just time-shifted.

The real "raid content" ends once everything is on farm. If it takes you 8 weeks to get to that point, it doesn't really matter whether those happen to fall on weeks 1-8 or 5-12.

The people this would hurt are people who can't finish "on time." Because they truly are losing something significant. But if you are the kind of guild who is going to rofl-stomp everything immediately anyway, it doesn't really matter.
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90 Pandaren Mage
12980
For everything that thinks this is a good idea: Get ready to wait months for the second set of raids.

We thought our intent was made pretty clear in the Blizzard Insider article, as well as in my original post. But, if it’ll ease your concern, I’ll be more specific!

Raid dungeons Heart of Fear and Terrace of Endless Spring are scheduled to be released on normal difficulty four weeks after Mogu'shan Vaults has been opened. ;)


If this happens I would be pleasantly surprised. Thanks for clearing that up.
Edited by Penndamonium on 8/1/2012 1:39 PM PDT
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90 Undead Priest
14805
08/01/2012 01:30 PMPosted by Poena
So because I choose to take time off of work for expansion


I'm merely asking why they are taking away things from me.


... sounds like they just gave back to you. Now you don't have to waste your vacation on a game. Recall your vacation days and use them for something important like visiting your family/friends/some place new... rather than a game you could have enjoyed without taking off from work to play.

Seriously... just because they aren't releasing the raid at launch doesn't mean they ARE TAKING THINGS FROM YOU. It is a game and You aren't losing anything. It is a game and You aren't losing anything. Repeat this mantra to yourself over and over until it sinks in.


I can't take my vacation days back anymore. So I'm screwed in to wasting my time. All my friends game, family is too far away to afford, your move. I took time off of work because every single xpac before this it was necessary to high end raid. You needed very minute you could to get raids done the first week to be able to do heroic/hardmodes the second week, minus TBC which was just really hard on "normal".

Have you not raided at the start of an xpac before? Do you not have fun from all the rush of new and exciting things? Walking in to a raid really undergeared in an attempt to take down a boss? I don't know, those things are amazingly fun to me. To me, having a forced slow down break only takes away from that. I don't know why more of the US folks don't understand it, but EU has lots of posts referring to this kind of thing and the delay taking it out of the game.
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96 Troll Shaman
15990

I can't take my vacation days back anymore. So I'm screwed in to wasting my time. All my friends game, family is too far away to afford, your move. I took time off of work because every single xpac before this it was necessary to high end raid. You needed very minute you could to get raids done the first week to be able to do heroic/hardmodes the second week, minus TBC which was just really hard on "normal".

Have you not raided at the start of an xpac before? Do you not have fun from all the rush of new and exciting things? Walking in to a raid really undergeared in an attempt to take down a boss? I don't know, those things are amazingly fun to me. To me, having a forced slow down break only takes away from that. I don't know why more of the US folks don't understand it, but EU has lots of posts referring to this kind of thing and the delay taking it out of the game.


Agree with everything this guy has said. Every expansion, the most fun part of the expansion is the first week, where you rush to level up, gear out and start raiding ASAP. Thats when content is the most challenging, the most fun, and the most rewarding.

Granted, not everyone is going to share this view, as made apparent by many of the posts in this thread, and many others like it, but that doesn't mean it should take away from people like me and telepathy, and the thousands upon thousands of others who enjoy the week 1 grind.

If you don't want to rush and try to raid asap week 1, then don't. You're not missing out on anything. Chances are if you're going for a server first, or a high ranking in general, you'll be doing whatever it takes to obtain that. Waiting a week isn't going to change anything for the majority of you who agree with this idea, but it will for the giant group of us that actually wants to / enjoys doing that.
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90 Human Mage
12825
08/01/2012 12:48 PMPosted by Crithto
This is a matter of striking a balance between preserving the feeling of guild progression and making the content accessible to players outside of organized guilds. We definitely want to see everyone have a chance to experience Mists of Pandaria raid content, so holding Raid Finder mode for a week feels like a reasonable window of time to accommodate players of all stripes.


I think you may on to something. Would this also help ease the "need" for Raiders to run LFR to gear up for normals? Even though I don't feel required to run LFR for my guild raids, some people do seem to feel that it's required. This is actually a brilliant work around, my hat is off to you guys.
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100 Troll Druid
14510
4 weeks seems like a bit too much. I hope that MV is quite hard. From looking at some of the beta tests some of them do look quite challenging especially Will of the Emperor while others could use some buffs but wouldnt there be quite a long down time? I can't imagine the top guilds taking 3 weeks to clear MV on heroic.

Though, would it seem better if one looked at MV as T14 and the others as T15?
Wasn't the purpose of the delay to give these top guilds a slight break in content. I think there were issues with how t11 was such a large amount of content to take on all at once, making it exhausting and somewhat stressful. If any guilds actually progress through all of heroic MV before the 4 weeks, then they get a short break to relax before having to start the next level of progression.

Having seen some of the heroic content on beta, I don't really think we'll see too many guilds clearing all of heroic MV before the other raids open.
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90 Undead Priest
14805
08/01/2012 01:49 PMPosted by Neverz
This is a matter of striking a balance between preserving the feeling of guild progression and making the content accessible to players outside of organized guilds. We definitely want to see everyone have a chance to experience Mists of Pandaria raid content, so holding Raid Finder mode for a week feels like a reasonable window of time to accommodate players of all stripes.


I think you may on to something. Would this also help ease the "need" for Raiders to run LFR to gear up for normals? Even though I don't feel required to run LFR for my guild raids, some people do seem to feel that it's required. This is actually a brilliant work around, my hat is off to you guys.


It doesn't change the requirement for higher end guilds to run it each week. DS was the same way, whole thing wasn't open until week 2 anyway and it still got mass run because people needed tier gear.
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96 Undead Priest
15960
08/01/2012 01:39 PMPosted by Telepathy
Have you not raided at the start of an xpac before? Do you not have fun from all the rush of new and exciting things? Walking in to a raid really undergeared in an attempt to take down a boss?


And interestingly enough, that's why i love raiding at the start of an expansion... and will still do with the ~10 hours a week i can play. You don't need to rush to do any of that... you can still do it all taking your time.

08/01/2012 01:39 PMPosted by Telepathy
I can't take my vacation days back anymore.


Sounds like you rushed planning your vacation time... See what happens when you rush things.

08/01/2012 01:39 PMPosted by Telepathy
To me, having a forced slow down break only takes away from that. I don't know why more of the US folks don't understand it, but EU


You don't lose anything from what you listed about by having to wait a week. The only people who lose out on what you listed are the ones who can't raid until the next tier of raid content is out. Those that level in a week/month/2-3 months will still be able to do what you listed above.

As for the EU, they get 2-4x the amount of vacation time we in the US get... obviously to them taking a vacation is less of a planned deal than it is for us here... but that's a whole different sociological issue.
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96 Undead Priest
15960
Agree with everything this guy has said. Every expansion, the most fun part of the expansion is the first week, where you rush to level up, gear out and start raiding ASAP. Thats when content is the most challenging, the most fun, and the most rewarding.


He didn't say he liked rushing to level/raid. He said:
08/01/2012 01:39 PMPosted by Telepathy
Walking in to a raid really undergeared in an attempt to take down a boss?


You can still do this without raiding the first week. The statement that the content won't be challenging because you have a ~2ilvl difference is just silly... and if it is, then turn off the buff, err I mean don't gear yourselves as much.
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100 Human Rogue
11190
08/01/2012 01:39 PMPosted by Telepathy
I took time off of work because every single xpac before this it was necessary to high end raid.


And you see nothing wrong with this? If you wish to be competitive at a video game it should be necessary to take a week+ off from your real life... interesting point of view. I respectfully disagree.

08/01/2012 01:39 PMPosted by Telepathy
Do you not have fun from all the rush of new and exciting things?


Honestly? I do not. I find leveling and gearing at the beginning of every expansion to be the single most boring part of this game. It doesn't feel new. It feels like reskinned, reused content at its finest. Sure the environment is new but is picking a new kind of berry from a new kind of flower in a new zone really all that different? How about beating on a new monster with no abilities because he's a trash mob with the same sinister strike I've used for the past 7 years? It does not seem all that new to me.

08/01/2012 01:39 PMPosted by Telepathy
Walking in to a raid really undergeared in an attempt to take down a boss?


And what do you think you'll be doing Tuesday the Second? We aren't talking about a year, we aren't talking about 6 months we are talking about 7 days. 7 days, 2 of which you will spend leveling and gearing, 2 of which you will spend sleeping (assuming you sleep the average amount) so really more like 3 days. This is of course assuming you do nothing but sleep the average amount and play WoW for the rest of the day everyday for the first 7 days the game is out. I'm sorry, its really not that big a deal. Get your alt to level 90. Grind your toon PvP gear since you like arena. Even without raiding there is still going to be a hell of a lot more to do than there is right now and if you can't wait 3 days after waiting almost 10 months in DS you need to be checked for selective ADD (probably not a real thing).
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90 Troll Druid
11615
Well, kinda bummed out they did this. Won't affect me at all since I'm leveling a monk and my guild doesn't plan to officially do 25s until 4-5 weeks after release.

But I do know that a lot of people enjoy rushing like crazy to get to the level cap and then raid as fast as they can. Not sure they Blizzard is getting rid of that.

Now with this change, all the hardcore guilds will now have 3-4 alts ready to go into heroic raiding two weeks after release. And then the class stacking begins.
Edited by Kuruption on 8/1/2012 1:59 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Shaman
16840
I can't take my vacation days back anymore. So I'm screwed in to wasting my time. All my friends game, family is too far away to afford, your move. I took time off of work because every single xpac before this it was necessary to high end raid. You needed very minute you could to get raids done the first week to be able to do heroic/hardmodes the second week, minus TBC which was just really hard on "normal".

Have you not raided at the start of an xpac before? Do you not have fun from all the rush of new and exciting things? Walking in to a raid really undergeared in an attempt to take down a boss? I don't know, those things are amazingly fun to me. To me, having a forced slow down break only takes away from that. I don't know why more of the US folks don't understand it, but EU has lots of posts referring to this kind of thing and the delay taking it out of the game.


I'd count my lucky stars if I were you then. I get 22 vacation days a year, and this year I'll take all of 5 of them. I had 5 carryover from last year I used, 5 I'll take between jobs this year, and I get paid out on the remainder of them. An extra pay and then some isn't something I'm terribly upset about, but just be thankful you have the flexibility to take time off when you want it.
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85 Gnome Mage
11760
08/01/2012 12:48 PMPosted by Crithto
Just curious, why is raid finder being released a week after normal version?


This is a matter of striking a balance between preserving the feeling of guild progression and making the content accessible to players outside of organized guilds. We definitely want to see everyone have a chance to experience Mists of Pandaria raid content, so holding Raid Finder mode for a week feels like a reasonable window of time to accommodate players of all stripes.

For everything that thinks this is a good idea: Get ready to wait months for the second set of raids.


We thought our intent was made pretty clear in the Blizzard Insider article, as well as in my original post. But, if it’ll ease your concern, I’ll be more specific!

Raid dungeons Heart of Fear and Terrace of Endless Spring are scheduled to be released on normal difficulty four weeks after Mogu'shan Vaults has been opened. ;)


Why not wait a few weeks or longer to deploy LFR. I mean I understand you want people to see the content ( I don't agree with it) but people who can't clear regular will be clearing LFR before most guilds clear regular. I don't think that is logical or fair tbh. I hate LFR because in the beginning as a raider you HAVE to do it which means I have to kill the end boss on LFR before I kill him on regular unless we clear the raid on the first week available (which is possible but not for everyone involved). Make LFR share a lockout with regular or something.
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90 Human Death Knight
20530
08/01/2012 01:30 PMPosted by Poena
So because I choose to take time off of work for expansion


I'm merely asking why they are taking away things from me.


... sounds like they just gave back to you. Now you don't have to waste your vacation on a game. Recall your vacation days and use them for something important like visiting your family/friends/some place new... rather than a game you could have enjoyed without taking off from work to play.

Seriously... just because they aren't releasing the raid at launch doesn't mean they ARE TAKING THINGS FROM YOU. It is a game and You aren't losing anything. It is a game and You aren't losing anything. Repeat this mantra to yourself over and over until it sinks in.


People earn their leave and it's their choice to do whatever they want with it.

Don't sit here and push your ideals onto other people. If you don't like what I do with my time, too bad. Go have children if you want someone to boss around.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
16840
Why not wait a few weeks or longer to deploy LFR. I mean I understand you want people to see the content ( I don't agree with it) but people who can't clear regular will be clearing LFR before most guilds clear regular. I don't think that is logical or fair tbh. I hate LFR because in the beginning as a raider you HAVE to do it which means I have to kill the end boss on LFR before I kill him on regular unless we clear the raid on the first week available (which is possible but not for everyone involved). Make LFR share a lockout with regular or something.


I agree with part of this, in that more than 2 weeks should expire before LFR is released. Only dedicated raiding guilds with experience are capable of getting content down in a single week and you have to admit, it kinda sucks clearing content on LFR mode before you get a chance to do that with the people you enjoy playing with in normal mode.

Like, Bliz - you gotta recognize that kinda sucks. And, this isn't even a hardcore thing. This is supporting the raiding guilds in the trenches, working their way through normals. I think Draztal would say there's nothing wrong with folks beating LFR a few weeks or months after the rest of folks kill it on normal.
Edited by Firestyle on 8/1/2012 2:06 PM PDT
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90 Undead Priest
14805
08/01/2012 01:54 PMPosted by Poena
Have you not raided at the start of an xpac before? Do you not have fun from all the rush of new and exciting things? Walking in to a raid really undergeared in an attempt to take down a boss?


And interestingly enough, that's why i love raiding at the start of an expansion... and will still do with the ~10 hours a week i can play. You don't need to rush to do any of that... you can still do it all taking your time.


And nothing is stopping you from doing so, but my preferred style is being stopped. Yes, you can take your time and do anything, but that doesn't put you in a good level of competition for my liking. I could do 1 down of football a day for a year and the game would last forever, that doesn't mean its fun to me. It could be to you, but that's not my style and I prefer it the normal way it's always been done.

I can't take my vacation days back anymore.


Sounds like you rushed planning your vacation time... See what happens when you rush things.


Or I have to plan time off 2 months in advance minimum and didn't have a chance to know they would change things until it has become to late to fix them?
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90 Blood Elf Priest
14315
Wow, WOW! So, just looked at loot drops, 0 cloth drops from Mogu'shan Vault with Spirit... Firelands all over again... So, you are fine with Priests not being viable until 5.1 again? Kinda hard to progress without mana regeneration, and kinda hard to regenerate mana without Spirit...

Edit: Looks like maybe one from Stone Guard...
Edited by Faera on 8/1/2012 2:13 PM PDT
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96 Undead Priest
15960
08/01/2012 02:02 PMPosted by Vêx
Don't sit here and push your ideals onto other people. If you don't like what I do with my time, too bad. Go have children if you want someone to boss around.


Says the guy defending the guy demanding that Blizz stop taking away from him.
Says the people who are up-in-arms because Blizzard is taking away from them, because they are ruining things for them...

Doesn't sound like I'm the one bossing people around... instead it sounds like I'm the one trying to give people perspective... trying to give the tiny minority perspective on the Majority.
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