Help choosing a class

90 Night Elf Rogue
5360
08/01/2012 01:00 PMPosted by Volechek
The classes that can heal though, are they always expected to?


Only if they choose the "healing" talent tree. Every class has 3 different specializations (often referred to as "talent trees). Some classes have one or two of those specializations designated as "healers". If you choose a class that CAN be a healer, you are only expected to actually be the healer if you picked that specialization. Same with tanking and DPS. If you picked a DPS spec, you are expected to DPS. And if you picked a tank spec, you'll be expected to tank.

08/01/2012 01:00 PMPosted by Volechek
I'd like being able to buff/heal myself, but as for as being a heal slave goes I'd hate it.


In WoW the healer and the tank of every group typically have joint say in how fast the group goes. Without the healer being reasonably full on mana and actively progressing through the dungeon with the tank, the tank would quickly die in most circumstances.

But the tank is always the first to engage the mobs, decide what direction to go, whether to take shortcuts, do a full clear, or skip the occasional optional boss.

It's the 3 DPS that are the expendable ones. They are expected to keep up with the tank & healer and will be chastised if they run ahead, pull extra mobs into the fight, or stand in avoidable damage puddles.

08/01/2012 01:00 PMPosted by Volechek
Oh and is grinding here fast? I prefer just straight grinding over running back and forth with quests unless I'm bored or I find a quest that gives a ton of exp. How is the grinding done here anyways? On the last game I played you'd usually be killing monsters about 7-10 levels higher than yourself to grind efficiently. Is it different here?


Just grinding through mobs is EXTREMELY slow. Almost every creature you'd end up killing has a quest that would have you killing them anyway. So you might as well get the huge amounts of XP through the quests for doing what you were going to do in the first place.

Unless you are REALLY good at your class and have the best items in the game for your level, you won't be able to kill things more than 5 levels above you without help. And anything between 3 and 5 levels above you will be possible to kill, but a huge challenge.
Edited by Avanna on 8/1/2012 1:47 PM PDT
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24 Blood Elf Hunter
90
Crap, grinding won't work here then. I guess I'll have to adjust to the questing as well. I plan on starting my new class now (probably Druid or Shaman). Any suggestions/tips for a DPS based one? Also, would I still be able to be the healer of the group if I have the healing skills but didn't choose the healing talent tree? I noticed waiting for groups to dungeon sometimes takes quite a while at low levels and I figure if I could help out with healing just to get the dungeon going I wouldn't mind.

Shorter version, I'd like to be able to choose healer during that role window that pops up when you first decide to join to get it started, and if we have another healer that could handle it then I could just be another DPS, or if we really need two healers I'd just suck it up for the time it takes to finish the dungeon.

Also I heard that Mages can basically "faceroll" their keyboard randomly and do some insane damage and kill just about anything, is this true?
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90 Blood Elf Priest
8250
08/01/2012 04:18 PMPosted by Volechek
Crap, grinding won't work here then. I guess I'll have to adjust to the questing as well. I plan on starting my new class now (probably Druid or Shaman). Any suggestions/tips for a DPS based one? Also, would I still be able to be the healer of the group if I have the healing skills but didn't choose the healing talent tree? I noticed waiting for groups to dungeon sometimes takes quite a while at low levels and I figure if I could help out with healing just to get the dungeon going I wouldn't mind.


no, not really any specific tips for being a dps.... there's a lot to know, so it's just a matter of jumping into it. If you have any particular struggles, that's when you come here and we try to help you work through it.

At low levels, it's possible to heal if your class has healing spells, even if you don't take that talent tree. it becomes more and more difficult as you get higher in lvl though. I wouldn't do it past like lvl 30, although it's still technically possible with good groups... nevertheless, those groups won't appreciate having to slow down to give you more time to heal and regain mana. People will look poorly at you, and probably kick you out of the party if you queue as a healer just to get in there faster but don't have the proper spec & gear.

Good news for you (if you don't already know) is you can duel spec... at lvl 30, talk to your trainer and purchase the ability. it lets you swap between two talent trees, so you can go healing when you feel like it. If you're in the middle of a dungeon and the healer leaves (or can't handle it alone), you can switch to your healing spec at any time to help the group along, and switch back whenever. Even though you have the duel spec, nobody will MAKE you switch to it... but they will appreciate it when you do if it helps the group move along.

08/01/2012 04:18 PMPosted by Volechek
Shorter version, I'd like to be able to choose healer during that role window that pops up when you first decide to join to get it started, and if we have another healer that could handle it then I could just be another DPS, or if we really need two healers I'd just suck it up for the time it takes to finish the dungeon.


If you select healer and dps, the dungeon finder will assign you to one of those two roles... you won't have both of them. There is always 1 healer, 1 tank, and 3 dps assigned... it doesn't matter if you selected multiple roles, it gives you just one of them.

If it assigns you as a healer, you will be the only healer assigned there (there might be another person in there capable of healing, but not necessarily... and they will be assigned DPS, expecting to DSP). In other words, don't select "healer" unless you're willing to heal, because most likely you will be. If you select DPS, nobody will expect you to heal and there will be another player with that role... but if that player is struggling (or leaves) you can switch to your healing spec to help them. but you don't have to. The dungeons are not designed to require 2 healers, but occasionally it helps.

08/01/2012 04:18 PMPosted by Volechek
Also I heard that Mages can basically "faceroll" their keyboard randomly and do some insane damage and kill just about anything, is this true?


lol, well the spell rotations for all classes are pretty simple at low levels. But at higher levels, Arcane Mages have a reputation for having really simple spell rotations. Fire mages are more complex. Frost isn't really used much at higher levels for PvE. Nevertheless, even though arcane mages are thought of as an easy spec to do good damage on, that doesn't mean that they are the most enjoyable to play, or that they do the best damage.
Edited by Hershe on 8/1/2012 4:38 PM PDT
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24 Blood Elf Hunter
90
What does PvE mean? Hmm looking through the talent trees just now has me wanting to try out everything. I can now see why the people who play this game really like it. There's so many ways to customize your character it's almost baffling.

I want to try out Elemental Shaman and Balance Druid now. Oh does anyone know of a nice newbie friendly server? I currently play on Lothar (in case I somehow chose a good server).
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08/01/2012 04:18 PMPosted by Volechek
I plan on starting my new class now (probably Druid or Shaman). Any suggestions/tips for a DPS based one? Also, would I still be able to be the healer of the group if I have the healing skills but didn't choose the healing talent tree? I noticed waiting for groups to dungeon sometimes takes quite a while at low levels and I figure if I could help out with healing just to get the dungeon going I wouldn't mind.

In both classes, Restoration is the healing spec.

For shaman, Elemental is ranged magic, Enhancement is melee.
For druids, Balance is ranged magic, Feral (cat form) is melee DPS, bear form for tanking.

Picking the tank or healer role just to get a short queue time isn't very kosher, you can generally get away with it in the lower levels, but by 30 if you aren't tanking or healing with the right specs, it'll become obvious, especially if you aren't sure of what to do in the first place. If you went Elemental/Balance, you could probably do okay to 30 when Dual Spec becomes available, since you'll use the same gear (Int, with Spirit showing up some of the time), but might as well start with the healing spec itself and learn what to do from the beginning.

Another option to questing and dungeons is to take Mining and Herbalism, and just gather nodes since that provides EXP too. Goes slow though until 40+ when you can ride around more quickly, and picks up even more with flying, but helps pull in extra EXP while questing.

PvE = Player v. Environment, as in killing boars for quests rather than other players (PvP).

And yes, Arcane mages basically spam one spell on bosses and do lots of damage, but it's not random button-mashing, nor is any other class...at least until you really CAN do it practically in your sleep. Still have to keep an eye on certain things.
Edited by Drewb on 8/1/2012 4:42 PM PDT
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60 Troll Hunter
11600
08/01/2012 04:18 PMPosted by Volechek
Any suggestions/tips for a DPS based one?


Just for clarity here

Enhancement Shaman are melee DPS Shaman, Elemental Shaman are Ranged DPS and Restoration are the healers. Balance Druids are ranged DPS, Restoration Druids are the Healers and Feral Combat are the melee DPS and or tanks (though this will change here very shortly the next 1-2 months feral will me melee DPS and guardian will be tanks)

08/01/2012 04:18 PMPosted by Volechek
Also, would I still be able to be the healer of the group if I have the healing skills but didn't choose the healing talent tree?


Not effectively. Special skills and abilities are given when you select the healing tree. You can off heal in emergencies and heal yourself just fine while questing though.

As hershe said if you pick up dual spec for 10 gold at level 30 you can swap while waiting and swap back when you get a healer.

08/01/2012 04:18 PMPosted by Volechek
Also I heard that Mages can basically "faceroll" their keyboard randomly and do some insane damage and kill just about anything, is this true?


Not quite. Arcane mages have a simple rotation they don't use as many abilities as say an enhancement shaman, but they do have plenty of procs cooldowns and mana regen tools that they have to use at the proper time to be their best at the end game content.
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60 Troll Hunter
11600
08/01/2012 04:36 PMPosted by Volechek
What does PvE mean?


Player vs Environment, meaning quests, dungeons and raids the opposite is PvP which is Plaver vs Player such as battlegrounds arenas and duels.

08/01/2012 04:36 PMPosted by Volechek
I want to try out Elemental Shaman and Balance Druid now. Oh does anyone know of a nice newbie friendly server? I currently play on Lothar (in case I somehow chose a good server


There's a sticky at the top of the page that can help you select the best server for you.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
8250
08/01/2012 04:36 PMPosted by Volechek
What does PvE mean? Hmm looking through the talent trees just now has me wanting to try out everything. I can now see why the people who play this game really like it. There's so many ways to customize your character it's almost baffling.


Player vs Environment, as opposed to Player vs Player. Mages commonly go frost for PvP because of superior survivability, but they do less damage. In high-level PvE (raids), damage is more important than the survivability skills frost mages get, so you won't see any frost mages in a raid.

Also, I don't mean to burst your bubble but as for the customization.... well two things. 1: There's certainly a lot of "options", but most of them are not options. Most of the talents are pretty much mandatory, and by the time you reach lvl cap, most of your talent points will be used filling up the vast majority of the talent tree you specialized in before you even have the option to put them elsewhere. There's a few places where options are flexible, but not many.

Secondly, the talent trees are changing dramatically when MoP is released. Most of the talents will become "built in", automatically given to you. The talent trees are being replaced with a much smaller selection of special skills that you can choose from. You choices here will largely depend on the type of encounter you're facing.
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MVP - World of Warcraft
90 Blood Elf Hunter
12320
Crap, grinding won't work here then. I guess I'll have to adjust to the questing as well. I plan on starting my new class now (probably Druid or Shaman). Any suggestions/tips for a DPS based one? Also, would I still be able to be the healer of the group if I have the healing skills but didn't choose the healing talent tree? I noticed waiting for groups to dungeon sometimes takes quite a while at low levels and I figure if I could help out with healing just to get the dungeon going I wouldn't mind.

Shorter version, I'd like to be able to choose healer during that role window that pops up when you first decide to join to get it started, and if we have another healer that could handle it then I could just be another DPS, or if we really need two healers I'd just suck it up for the time it takes to finish the dungeon.

At very low levels you might be able to get away with healing a dungeon even if you're not specced for it, but it isn't recommended.

Let's take a shaman. Suppose you were an Elemental shaman. You could probably get away with healing some of the low-level instances, since Elemental shaman uses the same gear as Restoration. Now let's suppose you were leveling as Enhancement but wanted to try healing. You would probably do terrible because your gear doesn't match up with the role. Enhancement shamans use Agility and do not stack for Intellect. You will probably run out of mana very quickly.

Either way, I wouldn't recommend you heal a dungeon if you're not in the right spec for it. For one, you won't have some of the core talents and abilities you need as a healer. Back to the shaman example--when you choose the Restoration spec at level 10, you automatically get the Earth Shield ability, as well as the passive abilities Purification and Meditation.

Purification: "Increases the effectiveness of your healing spells by 25%, and reduces the casting time of your Healing Wave and Greater Healing Wave spells by 0.5 sec."
Meditation: "Allows 50% of your mana regeneration from Spirit to continue while in combat."

You may think that both of those passive abilities don't sound like much, but they will make a huge difference in your effectiveness as a healer. Put simply, if you're NOT a Resto shaman, your heals will be 25% weaker, 0.5 seconds slower, and Spirit won't help you regenerate mana in combat. Maybe in an instance like Ragefire Chasm you might not notice much of a problem. But get into something more challenging like Shadowfang Keep and suddenly you might have a problem, especially if you get a poor tank or some clueless DPS.

Another reason... many other players you might run into in dungeons can be fairly unforgiving. If you queue as a healer in a non-healing spec and something goes wrong (even if it's not your fault), the first thing people will do is check gear/talents to see if there's a problem. If you're not what they're looking for, they may yell and blame you for the disaster, or even kick you from the group. :\

Also, if you picked "healer" role to queue as, hoping that another healer could come in and take over, you might just get tossed into a group where you're the ONLY class able to heal. (Warrior, hunter, rogue, mage, and then you, for instance. xD) Then you'll have no one to fall back on if you find you're not up to the challenge.

There are exceptions, and it usually depends on how experienced you are with the game and the roles your class can play if you can successfully get away with playing a different role. But in general you're kind of limiting your performance if you're not in the right spec. (And you definitely can't do it at end-game.)
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24 Blood Elf Hunter
90
With dual spec would this mean I have to keep my current points in one tree then just have the option of switching trees before the 51 or so point requirement or does it let me completely reuse my points from scratch that I can switch between at will? Also is the switch for dual spec instant/does it have a cooldown? Would be fun to be a DPS for a bit when able to then switch to healing when needed.

I still don't quite get the gear thing. What about the players that just take whatever gear they can get? I wouldn't have the knowledge or anything to say like "Ok let me get this because it have x amount of agility opposed to taking this gear that has x amount of intellect along with a higher armor rating". What if I'm just using Intellect gear because I can't/haven't found any Agility gear yet?

Oh and for the kicking thing in dungeons, is there a way for people to view your character's talents?
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60 Troll Hunter
11600
Dual spec allows you to have two seperate skill trees filled out with the amount of skill points you have available.

So example you can have all 11 of your talent points in Beast Mastery in one spec then you swap and can have all 11 points in Marksmanship.

At 31 points you are able to branch into the trees you have not selected for placing skill points.

The big thing to remember is you cannot swap specs in combat and you loose all of your resource when you swap (mana, energy, focus, rage etc)

Oh and for the kicking thing in dungeons, is there a way for people to view your character's talents?


yep right click the persons portrait and select inspect.
Edited by Jilixx on 8/1/2012 5:30 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Rogue
5360
08/01/2012 05:20 PMPosted by Volechek
With dual spec would this mean I have to keep my current points in one tree then just have the option of switching trees before the 51 or so point requirement or does it let me completely reuse my points from scratch that I can switch between at will?


Dual spec means you get 2 entirely different sets of talent points for 2 entirely different and independent talent tree choices. Also your glyph map (gotten at level 25) will be able to be different for each, AND you can have 2 different action bar setups.

You can't get the bonuses of both trees at once, you get the bonuses and abilities of whichever one you have activated at that moment. When you switch to the other you'll "unlearn" abilities & bonuses granted by that tree and "learn" the ones for the tree you swapped into.

You can switch between the trees for free at any time you are not in combat.

08/01/2012 05:20 PMPosted by Volechek
I still don't quite get the gear thing. What about the players that just take whatever gear they can get? I wouldn't have the knowledge or anything to say like "Ok let me get this because it have x amount of agility opposed to taking this gear that has x amount of intellect along with a higher armor rating". What if I'm just using Intellect gear because I can't/haven't found any Agility gear yet?


You CAN equip the wrong items for your spec, BUT you won't be very effective at what you're doing since all the various abilities use specific stats to determine how much damage/heals/threat they cause.

If you are specc'd as a caster DPS and you wear items with a bunch of strength or agility on them, then your spells won't have any intellect to bump them up to compete with everyone else and be effective in the content for your level.

Similarly if you are a physical damage dealer and you wear a bunch of stuff with intellect on it, your abilities won't have the oomph required to make it through the content because they rely on strength or agility (depending on your class) to give them the necessary power.

The ONLY time you should wear items with the wrong stats is if that slot was previously empty and that's the first item you found that goes in that slot. For certain classes, some latitude is given to weapons with the wrong stats, but only if that class actually uses that weapon with their attacks and the weapon they have does the most damage out of what they've been able to find.
Edited by Avanna on 8/1/2012 5:44 PM PDT
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24 Blood Elf Hunter
90

The ONLY time you should wear items with the wrong stats is if that slot was previously empty and that's the first item you found that goes in that slot. For certain classes, some latitude is given to weapons with the wrong stats, but only if that class actually uses that weapon with their attacks and the weapon they have does the most damage out of what they've been able to find.

This is pretty much what I meant by my post asking about the gear.

Do the weapons you use as a ranged magic DPS matter at all in terms of the base attack that it gives? If not does this mean I could use a dagger/sword then as a Ranged Druid?

And what causes my Druid to randomly flip sometimes when I jump?
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90 Night Elf Rogue
5360
08/01/2012 06:04 PMPosted by Volechek
Do the weapons you use as a ranged magic DPS matter at all in terms of the base attack that it gives? If not does this mean I could use a dagger/sword then as a Ranged Druid?


If you are in a caster spec, then the only thing you should look for in your weapons is an intellect bonus, and possibly the other applicable secondaries (haste, crit, hit, etc).

The amount of damage they do won't affect anything, since that would only apply if you were actually hitting something with said weapon. Since caster's use spells for damage, and not weapon attacks, the DPS rating and damage range don't come into play. Even wands for casters are mostly just stat sticks. They come in handy in a pinch if you go OOM (out of mana) before the creature dies, but they don't pack anywhere near the whallop a that a caster's spells do.

Similarly, unless you are a hunter (who relies heavily on his gun/crossbow/bow), your ranged weapons are only there for the stat bonuses they provide.

08/01/2012 06:04 PMPosted by Volechek
If not does this mean I could use a dagger/sword then as a Ranged Druid?


If druids can equip daggers & swords (I think they can but not 100% sure), then as a Balance druid (the caster spec) you'd only equip whatever you could in those slots that had the most intellect you could find. It could be a dagger, mace, axe, sword, staff, polearm, etc (provided druids have the ability to equip all those) if nothing in it's pop-up box is in red text, then you can equip it, and you only really SHOULD if it has intellect (as a balance druid).

08/01/2012 06:04 PMPosted by Volechek
And what causes my Druid to randomly flip sometimes when I jump?


I'm assuming that your druid is either a blood elf or a night elf? Night elves do a somersault in the air, while blood elves twirl. If so, then that flippy jump is just one of their 2 jump animations. Whether they do a normal jump or a flippy jump is entirely random. It has nothing to do with being a druid.
Edited by Avanna on 8/1/2012 6:20 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Priest
8250
08/01/2012 06:04 PMPosted by Volechek
Do the weapons you use as a ranged magic DPS matter at all in terms of the base attack that it gives? If not does this mean I could use a dagger/sword then as a Ranged Druid?


As a caster, you can use whatever you want that gives the superior stats. The damage doesn't matter. This includes being a Balance Druid (ranged DPS) or Resto Druid (Healer). Whatever you can equip that has the proper stats, use it.

That said, I don't think druids can use swords. The game just won't let you equip that weapon. Instead you can fight with a staff, dagger, one-handed mace, two-handed mace, fist weapons and polearms. You should only use the weapon if it has intellect on it, as a healer or ranged DPS. Some of those weapons are two-handed, others are one-handed. One-handed weapons should be used with an offhand... you'll have to compare the total stats on the 1h weapon and offhand with the total stats on a 2h weapon to see which is an upgrade.
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08/01/2012 06:04 PMPosted by Volechek
And what causes my Druid to randomly flip sometimes when I jump?

If you're a night elf, it's because you're having a little spasm known as the "flippy jump." Currently the only known treatment is to strip and dance on mailboxes. Doesn't actually cure anything, just makes you stop jumping and flipping.

If you're a worgen, you're just being awesome.

08/01/2012 06:14 PMPosted by Avanna
I'm assuming that your druid is either a blood elf or a night elf?

...erm...blood elves...uh...no sparkle kitties and such...*twitch*....
Edited by Drewb on 8/1/2012 7:35 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Priest
8250
08/01/2012 07:32 PMPosted by Drewb
If you're a worgen, you're just being awesome.


Down boy, down.

/twirl :-D
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90 Night Elf Rogue
5360
08/01/2012 07:32 PMPosted by Drewb
...erm...blood elves...uh...no sparkle kitties and such...*twitch*....


yeah, that would be pretty awkward. I thought both elf types had druids, but it makes sense that blood elves don't. After all, the reason why they were kicked out of the night elf society ages ago was because they wouldn't give up elemental magic and turn to druidism.
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24 Blood Elf Hunter
90
Haha yeah my Druid is a Night Elf, though I like the flippy jump.

When do Balance Druids start getting some nice skills? Currently only level 5 but it doesn't seem like anything good is coming for a while...
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90 Night Elf Rogue
5360
08/01/2012 07:46 PMPosted by Volechek
When do Balance Druids start getting some nice skills? Currently only level 5 but it doesn't seem like anything good is coming for a while...


Things start getting interesting for the classes when you pick your specialization at level 10. As soon as you pick your spec, your character will get a spec-defining ability that druids of the other two won't have.

Technically, because you can't pick a talent tree yet, your druid isn't a balance druid, it's an unspecialized one with no special skills, abilities, or bonuses that will define it's role. As soon as you hit level 10, and pick the spec, that happens. From there you'll get more spec-defining abilities and bonuses as you level.
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