WWYD... Bank theft by raid leader.. sort of?

12 Undead Priest
40
OK,

Today I got a whisper from my assistant raid leader. ( I am the GM ) He and the raid leader are long time good friends and guildies. They pre-date being my guilds raid leaders.

The assistant raid leader told me that our raid leader was booted from his main guild for stealing 285 gems, and that he could show me screen shots from the thefts. This was yesterday. He wanted to warn me to keep an eye out for anything happening in our guild bank.

Then here is where it got really weird. The assistant then gquit my guild, but told me that he would raid with us if we needed him.

So, for now, the raid leader has not stolen anything from my guild, but he did make a 500g withdrawal earlier this week. He sent me a note saying it was for buying raid mats. Whether he actually bought mats, I don't have a clue. I always trusted the guy.

I would just say it was sour g!%!*s by the assistant raid leader, but he swears he can send me screen shots.

WWYD?

BTW, if I were to boot the current raid leader, we would not have anybody in my guild who is qualified to raid lead. I'm kind of at a loss as to what to do. I'm sure if I asked the guy about the stolen gems, he would deny it, whether true or not.

LOL, the word that is blocked is G R A P E S.
Edited by Sillypriest on 8/6/2012 10:47 PM PDT
Reply Quote
85 Draenei Shaman
6840
I have no idea how he could have screen shots of the theft. Maybe screen shot of the guild bank log that gives half a story.

Can you contact the other guild guild master to confirm story?

If he withdrew $500 for mats I assum you can easily check if there was a need for raid mats for him to buy. A theft can operate extremely well if the guild leader doesn't keep am eye on things as a great thief would take small bits over a long period of time, and no questions will be asked.

However if you never had any suspicion of gold or stuff disappearing, never wondered if something was a miss with the guild bank...I believe you need to keep treating him as you always have. But godam keep an eye on your guild bank for a week or so just to make sure he is not a sneaky thief.

I know in one guild someone was taking gear out to up grade but was actually selling it in the ah........

it is a tough one.
Reply Quote
85 Goblin Warlock
10780
If you trust your RL, let it drop. If you're suspicious, ask for the screenshots.
Reply Quote
6 Gnome Rogue
0
Talk to his former GL if you're concerned.

The behavior of your assistant RL is very odd and comes off as though he and the RL had a falling out of some kind. Even if what he told you is "true" in some fashion or other, it sounds as though he is only telling you in an attempt to get his friend in trouble.

The most important information you can get from the other GL isn't "did he do it" but "what is the context of whatever happened".
Reply Quote
90 Human Warrior
16760
I would make a mental note to at least keep an eye on the rl, then forget about the guy who left.

Something is going on here. Something beyond that rl supposedly stealing from the old guild. Unfortunately kicking the rl could be exactly what needs to be done or the worst thing that can be done. You don't know. So just forget the guy who left. He's gone. He made his choice. Focus on who is still in your guild. Keep an eye out for any monkey business and go with 'business as usual.'
Reply Quote
12 Undead Priest
40
Thanks for the input.

I like the idea of at least finding out the name of his main guild, and possibly their GM's name, so that if I see anything weird, I can contact the other GM and try to get a story.

I don't want to offend our raid leader if he did nothing wrong.

That said, I noticed last week, that our bank was 5K short. I checked the log, but it only went back 23 hours and didn't show anything out of the ordinary.
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
9940
Can't you add limits to GB withdrawals?
Reply Quote
58 Dwarf Death Knight
0
08/06/2012 10:44 PMPosted by Sillypriest
he could show me screen shots from the thefts


If he has the screen shots, why didn't he show them to you already? Evidence claimed but not produced is sketchy, particularly from somebody who just quit your guild without warning.

I agree with Chatte to talk to the leader of the other guild.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
12920
Was he selling gems before they are worthless since Mop is like a month away? Should see how bare my bank is atm from disposing of useless crap.
Reply Quote
12 Undead Priest
40
08/07/2012 08:16 AMPosted by Síeara
Was he selling gems before they are worthless since Mop is like a month away? Should see how bare my bank is atm from disposing of useless crap.


I have no idea, but likely he didn't have that permission or they wouldn't have called it stealing.... ( permission to sell )

When the game comes back live today, I will try to find out the name of the other GM and see what is what.
Reply Quote
14 Troll Priest
110
Our bank is getting pretty bare too Sieara...

To Sillypriest...

#1- If a guildy is gonna bring up crap like that, they should have the SS's ready and uploaded to link to you or email. Don't bring me BS crap unless you are ready to back it up NOW. (That's my motto).

#2- 500 isn't a lot for raid stuff if you aren't farming and depending on what you provide. A "normal" night of a wipe or three for flasks and feasts runs us probably 400 or so for everything if all we do is buy fish and flasks to make a cauldron. (And repairs!)

I'm not saying don't watch a bit- it's always good to do so anyway.

Personally I'd just watch the logs for a bit, or adjust bank access a little. 99% of the time I never have to question crap my officers do because they'll send me a note "I took 500 for XX and 1k for YY." Mostly because I've busted some before for not sending a note. I trust them, but *I* always post a note on the calendar or tell others if they are on what I'm doing. I try to be transparent in my actions and want them to be.

Side note- if you didn't know that if you make a tab to only withdraw (no deposits) they can't stack stacks up to take them. So if you have 3 stacks of 5 red gems and 7 stacks of 5 blues and the limit for withdraw is 5 stacks, they can't get it all. (Unless this has been changed and I didn't know).
Reply Quote
12 Undead Priest
40
OK, well I talked to the GM of the raid leader's main, and this is what he said.....

" I don't air our dirty laundry in public, but if I were you, I would keep an extremely close watch on your guild bank".
Reply Quote
85 Goblin Warlock
10780
OK, well I talked to the GM of the raid leader's main, and this is what he said.....

" I don't air our dirty laundry in public, but if I were you, I would keep an extremely close watch on your guild bank".

Lock down your bank. Don't give him the opportunity.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
9130
OK, well I talked to the GM of the raid leader's main, and this is what he said.....

" I don't air our dirty laundry in public, but if I were you, I would keep an extremely close watch on your guild bank".

Lock down your bank. Don't give him the opportunity.


This.

Make it so he can't take anything, including gold.
Reply Quote
85 Human Priest
8370
OK, well I talked to the GM of the raid leader's main, and this is what he said.....

" I don't air our dirty laundry in public, but if I were you, I would keep an extremely close watch on your guild bank".

Lock down your bank. Don't give him the opportunity.



Lock down your bank. Don't give him the opportunity.


This.

Make it so he can't take anything, including gold.


I feel like these solutions are just delaying the inevitable. If you can't trust your raid leader, you need to get rid of him and find another.
Reply Quote
12 Undead Priest
40

Lock down your bank. Don't give him the opportunity.




This.

Make it so he can't take anything, including gold.


I feel like these solutions are just delaying the inevitable. If you can't trust your raid leader, you need to get rid of him and find another.


You might be right. It's just hard to do since I can't actually say he did anything wrong in my guild.
Reply Quote
85 Goblin Warlock
10780
08/08/2012 10:57 AMPosted by Onoudientt
I feel like these solutions are just delaying the inevitable. If you can't trust your raid leader, you need to get rid of him and find another.

Not necessarily. If he has no opportunity, he can't "steal" anything if all his gbank requests have to go through the GM.

However, I do agree that getting rid of him is the best long term solution. Get his side of the story, imo, but I would still get started looking for his replacement no matter what he says.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
9610
He hasn't done anything wrong to you to affect anyone in your guild so I would do this in mine.

I would change the guild bank access to have tab 1 your "all guildies" tab and put your junk in there.

Give him access to guild tab 2 "raid mats" Stuff for feasts only, no gems or enchanting stuff at all.

All other tabs to you or anyone higher officer rank you trust. Change gold permissions to repair only and no amoun withdrawls.

Don't single him out at all. He hasn't wronged you. But announce to the guild the new policy changes for access and who / how they need to work to use it.

This is just a quick outline but I hope you understand my gist. This allows you some security without jumping to conclusion about heresay.

If he is there to just thieve he will have little opportunity to do so and move on. If he continues to show his loyalty you can address bank useage again in the future.

Quick question. Does he deposit the Essences and BOE's into the guild bank each raid week?

Sym
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
10345
You've already mentioned that your bank is 5k short. I don't know how much you guys average for your total but that would definitely send up red flags to me. I wish we could get more detailed and longer logs.

Does your raid leader deposit anything into the guild at all? BoE Valor gear, BoE purples he picks up, money, mats for anything important, nice gear for people still leveling/leveling alts, enchants? Or does he only take stuff out and not add back.

I would lock down everything, revoke all privileges to all ranks at this point in time. If you want you can allow officers really limited access if they are trusted and you can set it so they don't rob you blind. If you have trusted officers in your guild give them the cliffnotes version of what is going on.

It's up to you what your tell your guild if lower ranking members ask about the guild bank lock down. If you don't want details getting out or unrest in the guild you could simply say you fear someone was hacked and it's precaution. (In our guild if any officer logs on and behaves strangely and does not reply they are immediately demoted to prevent theft - don't know if this is something your guild does). If they ask for more details just tell them that you will let them know when things are cleared up.

Talk to the RL and get his story. Sometimes people are accused of things they didn't do and if he hasn't been acting suspiciously and has been giving to the guild as well as taking then it would be unfair to boot until something more concrete comes in. He might just suddenly quit as well but we are only a couple of months from MoP so you do have time to find a new RL. Someone on the raid team may be more then qualified to raid lead and the next few weeks would be good practice for taking over that role.

Good luck - I feel you're going to need it on this one.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Death Knight
8470
If you have doubts then you should settle them right away. If someone says they have x proof but never show it to me I'm hesitant to believe it. I would watch to be on the safe side and if you see anything suspicious then pull him to the side and ask him. If ultimately you don't think he can be trusted you should just boot him and replace him. If you can't trust your officers in your guild then who can you trust? Just my personal thought on that. You can always train someone to take the place of the raid leader. You hate to not be able to trust someone but I wouldn't pay it too much mind unless stuff starts going missing and/or until you get something more concrete. I would also give him a chance to explain himself as well.

EDIT: one thing i would say that you may want to consider as a deterence to thieves. In my guild if you don't have an authenticator on your account you can't be promoted to an officer. May seem harsh but better safe than sorry.
Edited by Darkbladejk on 8/8/2012 8:56 PM PDT
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]