RaF and Monks

90 Blood Elf Paladin
9635
I'm going to the the whole RAF... But only for the pure fun of it. I could care less about server first. I understand why everyone going for those would be upset. But really? This was no different when cata came out so why cry about it again? No one is making you buy a RAF account. Just enjoy it. That is what these games are all about. ENJOY IT! I am sorry for all the people that are upset about the playing field not being level. I can't wait to just dig into playing a monk and a new kind of healer that yeah I will go out and buy RAF just to get playing that much quicker. This is how the game is and how it has been for a long time. No point to cry about it. Besides... If everyone is THAT worried about it, with getting 10 bucks of games right now just to do RAF is pretty damn cheap. If you can't afford that then you really shouldn't be affording the monthly sub. Go dig in the couch for 10 bucks, pop bottles, hell go mow a lawn! Or better yet, get a job. =) Problem solved.
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90 Dwarf Shaman
5540
I think one thing that everyone forgets is to do this the quickest and smoothest way to get an instant level 80 monk you would need to level 4 characters to 80. Even though they are getting tripple XP it's not like instant 80 monk for no effort at all, you are just doing the work before the expac comes out.
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100 Night Elf Death Knight
13525
08/21/2012 07:03 PMPosted by Nerfmytotems
I think one thing that everyone forgets is to do this the quickest and smoothest way to get an instant level 80 monk you would need to level 4 characters to 80. Even though they are getting tripple XP it's not like instant 80 monk for no effort at all, you are just doing the work before the expac comes out.
I am ok with this and ok with RAF being available, I am just not ok with people using RAF being considered legit for server first achievements. I still am a bit shocked that Bliz would allow it, someone mentioned that they will gain subs out of it, and yes they will but those subs will almost certainly not sub both accounts again. So yippie show a huge gain in subs in sept. and then have a huge loss raining on the new expansions parade for the final quarter of the year... I just don't believe that is what is driving this. But regardless of the work that one has to put into it, world first RAF user will not be legitimate in anyone's eyes and that ruins the fun for a lot of us who enjoy that new expansion race excitement.
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90 Troll Druid
10620
So, I saw this question asked before and yet I never saw an answer to it, so I will ask it again.

For all of those who are calling this "unfair" to be able to get sever first, what exactly makes it unfair?

Is it unfair because it costs extra money? It can cost extra if you plan to do it yourself, but you also have the option to find another person to level with you. Nothing is stopping you from making a new friend, or introducing an old one into the game.

Is it unfair because SoR can't do it? SoR is limited to people who currently are not playing the game and haven't been for some time. RaF is available to anyone who puts in the effort of getting that second account, rather it be from a friend or from themselves.

Is it unfair because it skips the 1-80 content? If so, why is that unfair? Many people have several to even dozens of 85s who have gone through that content already. To some, it is unfair to go through that content once again just to switch to a different main character. To some, it is unfair that other classes start at 85 for the race but yet we (as in Monks) only start at level 1. While level 80 isn't still 85, it is much closer.

Is it because of prestige? If all you want is the prestige, then you have 10 other classes that you can compete with on an equal level. If you are switching mains and still want that prestige, then you have to go back and answer why the 1-80 content matters.

Is it because skipping the leveling prevents those people from learning their class? I played Monk on beta starting at level 85. I learned the class by reading already put together guides and experimenting with the abilities in about 20 minutes. Actually, in about an hour of playing Windwalker, I was already in dungeons doing top DPS on boss fights while preforming mechanics. In only one heroic and one LFR, I was already topping HPS on boss fights at level 90 as a Mistweaver. People who don't learn how to play will STILL not know how to play even after 80 levels. People who do learn and want to learn will learn, no matter what level they start at.

Is it because it no longer makes the race fun? Fun is subjective for everyone and will never work and any argument, period.

The moment someone can provide a legitimate reason as to why this method is "unfair" to getting server first for Monks, then I will deem it to be a silly choice by Blizzard. Until then, I already have my leveling path set out, heirlooms ready to go for the 80-85 grind, gold set for flying in the Cata zones, and gear and bags set up for when I ding 80. I even have a nice plan set up for how I will use my Enlightenment experience boost.

Also, I lol at all the people who are yelling "PAY TO WIN!" The truth is, on any server that isn't completely dead or dying, people are paying gold and rl money even now to secure people to help them grind out those 5 levels and get server first. Hell, look at Athene, who got world first 85 by getting his guild members to kill off mobs he was tagging, essentially doing NO work other than being there. There is your glorious first.
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86 Gnome Warlock
9300
Like a lot of people here are saying, if you're not dedicated enough to set up a RaF to level, you're not dedicated enough to get a realm first.

You need to keep in mind that the race to world first is never just a bunch of people starting a level one and leveling normally. You'll have guilds dedicated to helping a guildmate get it. Chain pulling, tag-teaming, anything and everything they can do. Even without RaF, it's still not a fair playing field.

If you think $25 ($5 for Battlechest, $5 for Wrath and $15 for a month subscription if you were smart and bought during the sale) is too much money to pay for an advantage, then you are far from as dedicated as most of the people who race for world first are. If you're dedicated enough to map out every quest, plan every pull and coordinate with guildmates and friends to work around the clock, then you would pay $25 to get 300% exp too.

Again, if you think RaF is unfair because you weren't planning on doing it, you already lost.

The people who will be getting realm first have been planning it since the day the expansion was announced.

EDIT:
08/22/2012 10:10 AMPosted by Arbearday
Hell, look at Athene, who got world first 85 by getting his guild members to kill off mobs he was tagging, essentially doing NO work other than being there. There is your glorious first.


PERFECT example.
Edited by Shlexi on 8/22/2012 10:29 AM PDT
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85 Draenei Shaman
6860
A little over a week ago I RAFed myself. Purchased the battle chest, WOTLK, all-in-all it was probably $40 -- much cheaper now with the $5 WOTLK and so forth.

I got 4 lvl 80s already. I have all the granted levels saved, after one week (not playing all day haha). And the 80s have roughly 1 day /played on them, which technically averages to 12 hours per 80. I guarantee it would take at least 3 days /played to level a monk to 80 (it took me 2 days for the granted levels).

I would LOVE to post a guide about this and help people out, but I think people would abuse dual boxing and Blizzard would not like this type of post in the first place.
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100 Worgen Druid
13530
So, I saw this question asked before and yet I never saw an answer to it, so I will ask it again.

For all of those who are calling this "unfair" to be able to get sever first, what exactly makes it unfair?

Is it unfair because it costs extra money? It can cost extra if you plan to do it yourself, but you also have the option to find another person to level with you. Nothing is stopping you from making a new friend, or introducing an old one into the game.

Is it unfair because SoR can't do it? SoR is limited to people who currently are not playing the game and haven't been for some time. RaF is available to anyone who puts in the effort of getting that second account, rather it be from a friend or from themselves.

Is it unfair because it skips the 1-80 content? If so, why is that unfair? Many people have several to even dozens of 85s who have gone through that content already. To some, it is unfair to go through that content once again just to switch to a different main character. To some, it is unfair that other classes start at 85 for the race but yet we (as in Monks) only start at level 1. While level 80 isn't still 85, it is much closer.

Is it because of prestige? If all you want is the prestige, then you have 10 other classes that you can compete with on an equal level. If you are switching mains and still want that prestige, then you have to go back and answer why the 1-80 content matters.

Is it because skipping the leveling prevents those people from learning their class? I played Monk on beta starting at level 85. I learned the class by reading already put together guides and experimenting with the abilities in about 20 minutes. Actually, in about an hour of playing Windwalker, I was already in dungeons doing top DPS on boss fights while preforming mechanics. In only one heroic and one LFR, I was already topping HPS on boss fights at level 90 as a Mistweaver. People who don't learn how to play will STILL not know how to play even after 80 levels. People who do learn and want to learn will learn, no matter what level they start at.

Is it because it no longer makes the race fun? Fun is subjective for everyone and will never work and any argument, period.

The moment someone can provide a legitimate reason as to why this method is "unfair" to getting server first for Monks, then I will deem it to be a silly choice by Blizzard. Until then, I already have my leveling path set out, heirlooms ready to go for the 80-85 grind, gold set for flying in the Cata zones, and gear and bags set up for when I ding 80. I even have a nice plan set up for how I will use my Enlightenment experience boost.

Also, I lol at all the people who are yelling "PAY TO WIN!" The truth is, on any server that isn't completely dead or dying, people are paying gold and rl money even now to secure people to help them grind out those 5 levels and get server first. Hell, look at Athene, who got world first 85 by getting his guild members to kill off mobs he was tagging, essentially doing NO work other than being there. There is your glorious first.


Person A pays Blizzard real $ to skip to 80

Person B starts from level 1

Person B lost to person A because he/she did not pay Blizzard real $

You will tell me that people have always spent $ for advantages, but did they buy the advantage from Blizzard or from some third party site?

It's okay to buy pets from Blizzard for real $ because it doesn't deny anyone else a chance at the 50 pet achievement or give any game play advantage.

It's okay to buy mounts from Blizzard for real $ because it doesn't deny anyone else a chance at the 50 mount achievement or give any game play advantage.

It's not okay to allow RaF monks to be eligible for realm first achievements because the people who spend real $ are denying the others(the people who pay only the base $15/month) a chance at realm first. You will tell me that everyone has an equal opportunity to spend real $ to gain the same advantage, but Blizzard is breaking their own unspoken rule of "no advantages for $".

Reading other people's comments, it would seem that if Blizzard started offering full sets of heroic armor for $ and I spoke against it, you would try to justify it by telling me that I'm not even doing heroic raids. It's not about whether the advantage affects me at all or not, it's about the fact that Blizzard has begun to give an edge to those willing to pay them more than the basic price.

To put it simply, Arbearday, it's unfair because until Blizzards openly says,"We're going to start offering advantages for real currency", then the unspoken rule of no $ advantage should stay in place.
Edited by Verouille on 8/22/2012 11:10 AM PDT
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86 Gnome Warlock
9300
08/22/2012 11:09 AMPosted by Verouille
To put it simply, Arbearday, it's unfair because until Blizzards openly says,"We're going to start offering advantages for real currency", then the unspoken rule of no $ advantage should stay in place.


This would be true assuming the system worked in a way where you simply buy 300% exp. Like, give Blizzard $30 and get 300% exp boost for 30 days.

What you're forgetting is the intent of RaF is to..."recruit a friend". If people use it on themselves, that is out of Blizzard's control. Blizzard doesn't advertize the service as "We have this cool new system where you pay us for a second account and you get to boost your own character!"

Therefore, they're not selling you an advantage. When RaF is working as intended, the existing player shouldn't have to pay a dime. That's not to say it isn't very frequently used the other way where someone buys themselves a second account, but just because a kitchen knife can give someone an unfair advantage in a fist fight, doesn't mean that's what the knife company is selling.

Again, your entire arguement seems to be based around the assumption that the primary intention of RaF is to give players an unfair advantage to get a realm first. Way off.
Edited by Shlexi on 8/22/2012 11:19 AM PDT
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100 Worgen Druid
13530
To put it simply, Arbearday, it's unfair because until Blizzards openly says,"We're going to start offering advantages for real currency", then the unspoken rule of no $ advantage should stay in place.


This would be true assuming the system worked in a way where you simply buy 300% exp. Like, give Blizzard $30 and get 300% exp boost for 30 days.

What you're forgetting is the intent of RaF is to..."recruit a friend". If people use it on themselves, that is out of Blizzard's control. Blizzard doesn't advertize the service as "We have this cool new system where you pay us for a second account and you get to boost your own character!"

Therefore, they're not selling you an advantage. When RaF is working as intended, the existing player shouldn't have to pay a dime. That's not to say it isn't very frequently used the other way where someone buys themselves a second account, but just because a kitchen knife can give someone an unfair advantage in a fist fight, doesn't mean that's what the knife company is selling.

Again, your entire arguement seems to be based around the assumption that the primary intention of RaF is to give players an unfair advantage to get a realm first. Way off.


With this thread at 30 pages and a blue reply, they certainly know by now that many people aren't going to use the service as it was intended but instead for that secondary perk, the realm first advantage. It's a very simple solution to just make RaF monks ineligible for realm first, the race for realm first will be fair(or less unfair), and people will still be able to skip their monk to 80. It looks like they're going to let it stay the way it is, for some reason.
Edited by Verouille on 8/23/2012 8:26 AM PDT
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87 Troll Druid
15095
08/21/2012 07:03 PMPosted by Nerfmytotems
I think one thing that everyone forgets is to do this the quickest and smoothest way to get an instant level 80 monk you would need to level 4 characters to 80. Even though they are getting tripple XP it's not like instant 80 monk for no effort at all, you are just doing the work before the expac comes out.


Four? Why?

The RAF toon grants one level for every two levels earned.

This means the RAF toon at 80 can grant 40 levels to the veteran account toon. You would need only two toons at 80 to grant 80 levels. This info is contained in the RAF FAQ.

And consider for a moment that some people actually want to make a Pandaren Monk. That means before you leave the Wandering Isle, you'll be level 10. So you would only need one level 80 RAF account toon, and one level 60 to grant 70 levels.

Where is the 4 level 80 toons coming from? I'm curious. I mean by the end of it (questing as a pair or dualboxing it) you'll have four 80s, or two 80s and two 60s; but yalls are making it sound like you'll have to level a RAF toon to 80 four times.
Edited by Jinxxer on 8/22/2012 11:40 AM PDT
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100 Human Paladin
12120
SAVE LEVELS AND GRANT THEM AND GG
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86 Gnome Warlock
9300
08/22/2012 11:28 AMPosted by Verouille
With this thread at 30 pages and a blue replay, they certainly know by now that many people aren't going to use the service as it was intended but instead for that secondary perk, the realm first advantage. It's a very simple solution to just make RaF monks ineligible for realm first, the race for realm first will be fair(or less unfair), and people will still be able to skip their monk to 80. It looks like they're going to let it stay the way it is, for some reason.


As I said before, anyone who is dedicated enough to actually get realm first for a Pandaren monk is dedicated enough to plan to "abuse" RaF for a 300% advantage. Blizzard knows it is happening, but it isn't a big enough deal to do anything about. The race wouldn't be fair anyway. If you want Blizzard to keep people from having an advantage and level the whole playing field, they should also add a time limit to how many hours you're allowed to level per day. And also make it so that you can't recieve any help from others. There will still probably be several hundred people per realm racing each other with the 300% exp boost. And guildmates. And pre-planned leveling routes. And chain pulls.

You're also confusing Scroll of Resurrection (instant 80) and Recruit a Friend (300% exp). Monks will still be INELIGIBLE for the free boost to 80 this has been said multiple times. Anyone getting realm first will still have gone 1-90. No one is getting an instant level 80 monk.
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85 Draenei Shaman
6860
I posted a guide to this process if anyone wishes to check it out:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6398840215?page=1#0
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90 Undead Priest
7950


I got 4 lvl 80s already. I have all the granted levels saved


How long do the "grantable Levels" Last without use? (How long can I wait before I use them)
Edited by Kobraspine on 8/23/2012 1:22 PM PDT
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100 Night Elf Death Knight
17610

You're also confusing Scroll of Resurrection (instant 80) and Recruit a Friend (300% exp). Monks will still be INELIGIBLE for the free boost to 80 this has been said multiple times. Anyone getting realm first will still have gone 1-90. No one is getting an instant level 80 monk.


You're the one who is confused. Recruit a Friend doesn't just offer the 300% increase, it also allows you to grant levels at a 2:1 ratio to the RaF'd character, up to level 80. So all someone has to do is level a couple alts using the process and they will have 80 levels to instantly grant. This is not news that RaF can do this. You've probably seen it happening before your eyes, when people are dinging over and over and over while standing around SW/Org.
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85 Blood Elf Rogue
6185


How long do the "grantable Levels" Last without use? (How long can I wait before I use them)


Your accounts are linked for 90 days, so you need to use the levels within that 90 days
Edited by Bränigän on 8/24/2012 2:54 PM PDT
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85 Blood Elf Rogue
6185
Jinxxer:

They would have 4 level 80s, because you need to be paired up with your RaF partner (or your second account) in order to get the triple XP. So, when you are done, you'll have 4 new level 80 characters. 2 on your veteran account, and 2 on your recruit's account.



Four? Why?

The RAF toon grants one level for every two levels earned.

This means the RAF toon at 80 can grant 40 levels to the veteran account toon. You would need only two toons at 80 to grant 80 levels. This info is contained in the RAF FAQ.

And consider for a moment that some people actually want to make a Pandaren Monk. That means before you leave the Wandering Isle, you'll be level 10. So you would only need one level 80 RAF account toon, and one level 60 to grant 70 levels.

Where is the 4 level 80 toons coming from? I'm curious. I mean by the end of it (questing as a pair or dualboxing it) you'll have four 80s, or two 80s and two 60s; but yalls are making it sound like you'll have to level a RAF toon to 80 four times.
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86 Worgen Priest
12410
I personally disagree with being able to use RaF to get a lvl 1 monk up to lvl 80 within a matter of minutes. I know some disagree with my opinion but I know Blizzard does like to hear what we think.

I have always enjoyed the race to lvling up to get a realm first. Stocking up on drinks, food, falling asleep on the keyboard, people whispering to me" OMG how much sleep have you gotten'?," your crazy'!," how are you still going?", etc, etc. So the experience I was hoping for is not going to happen and it saddens me.

I guess I can at least thank you Blizzard for making the previous expansions cheap to buy so we can use the RaF tool.
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85 Blood Elf Mage
10545
It's okay to buy pets from Blizzard for real $ because it doesn't deny anyone else a chance at the 50 pet achievement or give any game play advantage.

It's okay to buy mounts from Blizzard for real $ because it doesn't deny anyone else a chance at the 50 mount achievement or give any game play advantage.


It is strictly impossible, currently at least, to get the 100 mount achievement and the 150 pet achievement without using the tcg and blizzard store, which is directly or indirectly paying money to blizzard.
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90 Draenei Shaman
13685
08/27/2012 02:35 PMPosted by Khaydarin
It is strictly impossible, currently at least, to get the 100 mount achievement and the 150 pet achievement without using the tcg and blizzard store, which is directly or indirectly paying money to blizzard.


That's not true.
According to the armory, there are 190 obtainable mounts (not counting Ruthless Glad or Fel Drake).
There are 16 TCG mounts & 3 mounts from the Blizzard Store.

It's easy to obtain the Mountain O' Mounts achievement without TCG mounts or Blizzard Store mounts.
Edited by Novalas on 8/27/2012 2:44 PM PDT
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