Patch 5.0 Prot Spec Stat Weights

90 Pandaren Warrior
11015
So, we are close to the dropping of the MoP patch, with a month of playing at 85 before MoP hits.

I'm looking to dust off my prot warrior, as I'm really excited about the new active mitigation model of tanking. So I'm taking a shot at gearing ahead of the patch to be ready for the patch. Here is roughly the stat priority I am using on my gear right now. Note that I'm gearing for 5-mans, not raids.

Expertise (to cap) > Hit (to cap) > Stamina > Strength > Parry = Mastery > Dodge

I have the value of the first three way ahead of the others, so I gemmed mostly Stamina.

From the little I've done on the beta, Hit and Expertise are essential to maintain the rage needed to use the mitigation abilities. I'm unclear if the caps are necessary though. Stamina appears to be king after that due to block becoming a separate roll. No longer is the 102.4% avoidance possible. Thoughts?
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90 Pandaren Warrior
11015
Yeah,

Hit to hard cap
Expertise to softcap

Then Stam for gemming. It seems to me that it is good enough to ignore most socket bonuses as well.

That leaves the reforge preference (post caps) for Parry, Mastery, and dodge.

Dodge appears to be junk now. The way the rating scales for plate users makes it the obvious 3rd choice of the three. Better than haste, crit, AP, but much lower than Parry or Mastery.

I'm unclear how the other two will scale. Does anyone know whether or not mastery will have diminishing returns in MoP?
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90 Human Warrior
3975
Yes it does.
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100 Human Warrior
14160
08/17/2012 11:50 AMPosted by Mikeey
Yes it does.


It's not supposed to, but it does right now.

We're not sure if it's permanent yet, I think.

Either way, the stat priority sounds about right; it's what I'm going to use in Mists as well.

Rule of thumb I may use for avoidance reforging in Mists: Whatever the piece doesn't have, reforge that avoidance to the other. (So if Dodge, reforge some to Parry) If both, take the higher one and reforge to either a threat stat or Mastery.

But that's just me. I have a feeling a lot of us are going to just probably not bother with Mastery, or if we do it'll be just natively what we get off of gear.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
11015


It's not supposed to, but it does right now.

We're not sure if it's permanent yet, I think.

Either way, the stat priority sounds about right; it's what I'm going to use in Mists as well.

Rule of thumb I may use for avoidance reforging in Mists: Whatever the piece doesn't have, reforge that avoidance to the other. (So if Dodge, reforge some to Parry) If both, take the higher one and reforge to either a threat stat or Mastery.

But that's just me. I have a feeling a lot of us are going to just probably not bother with Mastery, or if we do it'll be just natively what we get off of gear.


The last I heard was that the amount of dodge per rating plate-wearers get is significantly lower than what we get from parry rating. Did I mis-read that?
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90 Human Warrior
7780
**Please keep in mind that I am not on Beta, the opinion following is just from online research.**

Not to be 'that guy', but I was under the impression that although the above mentioned

08/17/2012 08:29 AMPosted by Wizgill
Expertise (to cap) > Hit (to cap) > Stamina > Strength > Parry = Mastery > Dodge


was one way of stat allocation in Mists, it was not the preferred method.

I thought that our preferred stat weight was more geared towards:

Mastery > Parry > Stamina > Dodge > Exp > Hit

Primarily due to the fact that a mitigated or parry/dodged attack allows for the use of Revenge, which also grants rage.

I'd like very much to hear any opinions, as I am still trying to cut through the noise about direction of Prot Warrs come the new patch.

Also, if anyone else has any Prot Warrior resources, please let me know!

edit: I should caveat this with, many pieces of gear I have seen in Mists have Exp/Hit built in. There is always the case of SBlock vs SBarrier to consider. (Stamina for more absorb vs Mastery for Block)

Mostly, just looking to be as prepared as I can for the patch and beyond.
Edited by Nerdrage on 8/17/2012 1:58 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Warrior
11015

Not to be 'that guy', but...


All good! You brought up a good point I missed. I much appreciate it!

Revenge is a rage generator. Though I still disagree with your priority. Hit and Expertise is still needed to improve the chance that revenge will land. While proccing it is great, if you miss, or revenge is parried/dodged, then it is a wasted revenge.

Also, revenge is one of 2 rage generators, with SHield Slam being the preferred, and it with a 6 second cooldown.

Devastate will potentially refresh shield slam (Through Sword and Board) and causing SS to generate an additional 5 rage. So we essentially have three rage generators in our rotation, though Devastate is a weak one.

All three of these rage generators still use the hit table, and are potential misses, dodges, and parries. This leaves Expertise and Hit as very important stats.

So, I'd still put

Expertise > Hit

at the front of the chain.

THis leaves the rest of the stats up in the air really, except for dodge. BEGONE DODGE! You could stack stamina at this point, and lean on Devastate proccing sword and board and tossing in revenges whenever possible. You could focus on parry and mastery, and then drop Devastate from the rotation all together (except for debuffing, if needed). So I'd see the stat pref being one of two ways.

Expertise (to soft cap) > Hit (to cap) > Stamina > MAstery = Parry >>> dodge

or

Expertise (to soft cap) > Hit (to cap) > Mastery = Parry > Stamina >>> dodge

THough, realistically... it is likely something like this do to revenge proccing S&B.

Expertise (to soft cap) > Hit (to cap) > Mastery = Parry = Stamina >>> dodge

Of course, this is assuming that mastery does not suffer from DM, otherwise parry is probably a bit better.
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85 Orc Warrior
3695
Really? I am in the Beta and this is news to me; I was under the impression our stat priority didn't change from Live other than we don't need to care about Parry being a tiny bit higher than Dodge, and Mastery is still king.

This throws a monkey wrench into some things perhaps. Hmm...
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90 Human Warrior
7780
08/17/2012 04:57 PMPosted by Wizgill
So we essentially have three rage generators in our rotation, though Devastate is a weak one.


There's also our shouts which we can use at some points in the rotation, or if you know for sure a Sbarr or Sblock is happening shortly, so that you can have a certain amount of rage surplus post mitigation.

It would seem to me that the new 102.4% (CTC) for Mists will be the sweet spot for the hit/exp amount necessary to only miss a certain amount, while maximizing our other defensive stats such as Mastery, Parry, Stamina and Dodge, in which ever order the particular encounter dictates.

However, it is out of my math range offhand to be able to say how far below cap for exp/hit this amount of those 2 stats would be to maintain maximum defence stats.

my 2c at this point...
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90 Pandaren Warrior
13410
You can't really count Devastate as a rage generator since it itself does not generate rage. If you're going to look at it like that, then you can add Dodge and Parry as generators because they allow the use of revenge on an RNG chance, much like Devastate can allow for a Shield Slam CD refresh.

There's been some testing if you check out the beta forums ( But good luck finding the thread now, it's buried pretty deep ) that in terms of Hit / Expertise vs Avoidance reforging, yes, you take less damage with the Avoidance route and gain more Revenges. However, the other method gives you a bit more control of your rage income so that you aren't caught with your pants down for predictable / timed bursts of damage. There are several examples throughout the raids that you're going to want to have rage built up to mitigate the incoming source. Elegon with his breath attack that hits 4 times in one second ( Shield Barrier used in this case ); Breath attacks from Tsulong; Crush from Garalon; Garjahal ( The troll boss in Vaults ) with his Shadow Attacks that completely ignore absorbs but CAN be blocked; and my favorite, the Sha of Fear's Thrash mechanic on heroic which is 3 instant attacks every fourth for the first phase and then 6 instant attacks every fourth in the last phase. :)

I've never been one for RNG, but I don't like risking my resource flow. I'm pretty sure the damage intake pretty the two preferred methods won't be THAT drastic so we may have some leeway in our preference but we'll have to see. A friend of mine did the math with reforges between hit and expertise versus avoidance reforges, and unless he was looking at two different sets of gear ( to my knowledge he wasn't ), it was about a 3% difference in avoidance for getting something like 4% hit and 4% expertise, I'll have to drag up the link if I still have it to see.

But yeah, about a 3% difference doesn't mean much to me for the first tier. If it ends up being proven that one is better than the other by leaps and bounds, I'll be the first to switch my method. Till then, I'm going Hit / Expertise. Now if only they'd make it so tanks get twice the benefit from expertise so we hit Dodge and Parry cap at the same time. @_@ I'd be extremely happy with that because of my bias.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
11015
Yeah, the loss of avoidance for hit/expertise should be minimum. As far as Devastate being or not being a rage generator, it absolutely is a rage generator.

First, it costs no rage to use. THis is much like SS and Revenger. Also, each use of Devastate has a 30% chance to proc Sword and Board. This means a chance that you will get your SS earlier than otherwise. That alone is rage generation, albiet a small amount. S&B also increases the rage generation of SS by 5. That makes Devastate a non-crappy rage generator.

And I completely agree, avoidance stats are a form of rage generator as well, by bringing revenge off of cool down. HAving Revenge off of cooldown is definitely better than using Devastate to chance S&B proc. Devastate is definitely still the fill in ability between SS and Revenge.
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90 Orc Warrior
17020
Devastate isn't a rage generator by itself though; it has to rely on a proc to do so. It's like saying CSmash for Arms/Fury is a rage generator since it procs Enrage.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
13410
08/18/2012 09:12 AMPosted by Samayael
Devastate isn't a rage generator by itself though; it has to rely on a proc to do so. It's like saying CSmash for Arms/Fury is a rage generator since it procs Enrage.


Pretty much sums up the only thing I disagree with Devastate being considered a rage generator. If it generates rage by itself on use, then yeah, you're right that it's a generator. However, that's not the case here as you're relying a 30% chance to refresh the SS cool down. And even then, do you still consider it a rage generator if you use Devastate the one GCD before SS comes active, making the proc irrelevant? May as well make mastery a rage generator since it increases crit block chance.
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100 Blood Elf Warrior
14615
By the logic of my maths, devastate has a 30% chance to give you 5-15 rage, based on which GCD you used it on. So basically 1.5 - 4.5 rage per devastate over time.

Shield Slam >
1st GCD Devastate avg. 4.5 rage
2nd GCD Devastate avg. 3 rage
3rd GCD Devastate avg 1.5 rage
Shield Slam

It is 3 times as useful during the first global after shield slam as compared to the gcd before it.
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