Goodbye... Zen. Shakou Shakou Shikyo

(Locked)

90 Draenei Death Knight
6650
So what happened now? Someone lost their thing and couldn't raid it with the people who were heroes?
90 Human Priest
Zen
9655
...yeah, that thing that does that stuff and all.

...and hella good funs running with ye again Jeja dood.

=)
90 Pandaren Shaman
Zen
6010
ok you said ..[quote="63968740589"
I've played this game since NA Release, shakou is a day 1 toon that raided molten core black wing lair, AQ 40, and Naxx... I only transfered to this server to play with friends after i graduated college... I have more seniority in running guilds than you, but you are ignorant of my history, so i'll let it slide.[/quote]

Is that so, hmmm lets look at those names .. Shakou...

Shakou 85 Night Elf Feral Combat Druid, Sisters of Elune
Temple of Ahn'Qiraj Defeat C'Thun. 12/13/2010
Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj Defeat Ossirian the Unscarred. 12/11/2010
Molten Core Defeat Ragnaros 12/11/2010

Shakou 85 Gnome Assassination Rogue, Trollbane
has done no, even today of said above.

Shakou 85 Blood Elf Frost Death Knight, Llane
Blackwing Lair Defeat Nefarian. 09/05/2010
Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj Defeat Ossirian the Unscarred. 09/03/2010
Temple of Ahn'Qiraj Defeat C'Thun. 09/02/2010
Molten Core Defeat Ragnaros 05/11/2010

Onyxia's Lair was released in Patch 1.1.0 (as was Molten Core) Release date (US) 7 November 2004 Version 4044 http://www.wowpedia.org/Patch_1.1.0 and can goto blizzard site to look if you want.

So that Being said, what one was you again? I don't see anything where it shows you were in the Old school raids back in the day. I will Assume you meant going back years later and practiced raiding the 40man with 5 people and creamed it for the free achivments.

SO you know, chr names/trasnfers and more... ALL keep records of it. So not seeing your account for the old school stuff. I am intersted now to know. :D

Edit, list goes on there are about 50 of that name in total.. find on that matches and let me know ok?
Edited by Nitia on 8/22/2012 12:09 PM PDT
70 Undead Warlock
Moo
11230
Is that so, hmmm lets look at those names .. Shakou...

Shakou 85 Night Elf Feral Combat Druid, Sisters of Elune
Temple of Ahn'Qiraj Defeat C'Thun. 12/13/2010
Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj Defeat Ossirian the Unscarred. 12/11/2010
Molten Core Defeat Ragnaros 12/11/2010

Shakou 85 Gnome Assassination Rogue, Trollbane
has done no, even today of said above.

Shakou 85 Blood Elf Frost Death Knight, Llane
Blackwing Lair Defeat Nefarian. 09/05/2010
Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj Defeat Ossirian the Unscarred. 09/03/2010
Temple of Ahn'Qiraj Defeat C'Thun. 09/02/2010
Molten Core Defeat Ragnaros 05/11/2010

Onyxia's Lair was released in Patch 1.1.0 (as was Molten Core) Release date (US) 7 November 2004 Version 4044 http://www.wowpedia.org/Patch_1.1.0 and can goto blizzard site to look if you want.

So that Being said, what one was you again? I don't see anything where it shows you were in the Old school raids back in the day. I will Assume you meant going back years later and practiced raiding the 40man with 5 people and creamed it for the free achivments.

SO you know, chr names/trasnfers and more... ALL keep records of it. So not seeing your account for the old school stuff. I am intersted now to know. :D

Edit, list goes on there are about 50 of that name in total.. find on that matches and let me know ok?


Not to completely blow your example out of the water but this is my 1st toon created within the 1st month of WOW. If you look at his profile you can see he is wearing all of the Felheart stuff from Molten Core, yet in my achievement area I have no credit for clearing Molten Core. It is because they used a system to "judge" how far if any someone ran an instance by the gear in their bank and character. Had I killed Rag back in Vanilla, you bet, did I ever get my tier legs from Rag, nope.

I am not defending Shakou, but that might not have been the characters name on the other realm and possibly Shakou did not keep old gear in the hopes of it being useful so much later in this game's life, like I did.

Edit - broken quote box needed fixing!
Edited by Cecrops on 8/22/2012 12:54 PM PDT
90 Pandaren Shaman
Zen
6010
Is that so, hmmm lets look at those names .. Shakou...

Shakou 85 Night Elf Feral Combat Druid, Sisters of Elune
Temple of Ahn'Qiraj Defeat C'Thun. 12/13/2010
Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj Defeat Ossirian the Unscarred. 12/11/2010
Molten Core Defeat Ragnaros 12/11/2010

Shakou 85 Gnome Assassination Rogue, Trollbane
has done no, even today of said above.

Shakou 85 Blood Elf Frost Death Knight, Llane
Blackwing Lair Defeat Nefarian. 09/05/2010
Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj Defeat Ossirian the Unscarred. 09/03/2010
Temple of Ahn'Qiraj Defeat C'Thun. 09/02/2010
Molten Core Defeat Ragnaros 05/11/2010

Onyxia's Lair was released in Patch 1.1.0 (as was Molten Core) Release date (US) 7 November 2004 Version 4044 http://www.wowpedia.org/Patch_1.1.0 and can goto blizzard site to look if you want.

So that Being said, what one was you again? I don't see anything where it shows you were in the Old school raids back in the day. I will Assume you meant going back years later and practiced raiding the 40man with 5 people and creamed it for the free achivments.

SO you know, chr names/trasnfers and more... ALL keep records of it. So not seeing your account for the old school stuff. I am intersted now to know. :D

Edit, list goes on there are about 50 of that name in total.. find on that matches and let me know ok?


Not to completely blow your example out of the water but this is my 1st toon created within the 1st month of WOW. If you look at his profile you can see he is wearing all of the Felheart stuff from Molten Core, yet in my achievement area I have no credit for clearing Molten Core. It is because they used a system to "judge" how far if any someone ran an instance by the gear in their bank and character. Had I killed Rag back in Vanilla, you bet, did I ever get my tier legs from Rag, nope.

I am not defending Shakou, but that might not have been the characters name on the other realm and possibly Shakou did not keep old gear in the hopes of it being useful so much later in this game's life, like I did.

Edit - broken quote box needed fixing!


Many of the achivments are fixed, and there are people with 2009 and 2008 and such for achivments if you look up toons. just saying. also, why not do /played or such. to show when you were made/started too. also, on blizzard sites u can look up what toons are named changed and such aswell and old info, blizzard has it.
90 Pandaren Shaman
Zen
6010
Also, Ony and other old school achivments are now FEATS of Str.
90 Tauren Druid
19140
Many of the achivments are fixed, and there are people with 2009 and 2008 and such for achivments if you look up toons. just saying. also, why not do /played or such. to show when you were made/started too. also, on blizzard sites u can look up what toons are named changed and such aswell and old info, blizzard has it.


achievements didn't come into the game until just before wrath of the lich king. the 3rd set of content. Naxx40 was back in vanilla wow. You -can't- have the achievement for that content because at that point there wasn't one.

I honestly don't care how this all goes either way but if you are going to try to call someone out don't be ignorant.

08/22/2012 12:52 PMPosted by Cecrops
f you look at his profile you can see he is wearing all of the Felheart stuff from Molten Core, yet in my achievement area I have no credit for clearing Molten Core.


^^^ also this.
85 Night Elf Druid
Zen
8905
heheh thanks for putting ignorance in it's place, Yeah if you look at my profile on this toon it says Onyxia Feat of STR 2008, which is when cheeses were added, I went to college for 4 years and only just started srsly playing again towards the end of 2010, which is why everything else says 2010...

but if you REALLLY want to get technical with me...

http://i.imgur.com/K2ZuW.jpg

I certainly hope this clears up any misconceptions you may have had... Have a good time raiding progression content, I certainly will. Though I am a bit puzzled, for people who keep telling me to calm down... / let things go... you guys sure do a lot of work trying to keep this going...

I am no longer fighting zen in this thread but i will continue to laugh at simple people, because it amuses me how you have absolutely nothing to talk about in your guild besides me.
Edited by Shakou on 8/22/2012 2:32 PM PDT
90 Pandaren Shaman
Zen
8880
"because I dared zen to be different... to be better."


You know, our first kill on Deathwing was my first time I was ever in 10 man Dragon Soul - a month earlier I was in 312's. After that kill, all I heard from you was how one of our Hunters in the group wasn't pulling there weight. So from there, that Hunter never got to raid. Nope, they would show up and not go. Why is this? You determined that this other Officer was not ready even after they defeated Deathwing the first time. You would rather make it easier for everyone (yourself) to get the kill each week by training someone else instead. From a progression standpoint this makes sense, yeah? I mean our other Hunter in the group was pulling higher numbers anyhow.

A loss of one betters the other nine.

Yet on the sideline, I listened to you and your other Officer call this player nasty names night after night. This Hunter that was spoken so ill of was part of the first team to ever train me in the art of Raids back in the days of Ulduar. They've helped me these past two and a half years accomplish my goals in Warcraft.

It was then I knew, this player was never going to Raid under your authority.

That Hunter was part of the reason why I was able to come into dragon Soul for the first time and assist (not carry) the raid group in the first Deathwing kill. I had tied with the other Healer for the #1 heal spot after that kill.

I should EP about that right? No because that's not my EP.

Soon after I started hearing the same talk about me from one of the Officers. Apparently, I wasn't suppose to go that night and stole this players kill. It probably didn't help that I went again next week and Zen defeated Deathwing again. From there, the weight of accomplish was lighter than the weight on my heart.

It was my first time since joining Zen two and a half years ago that I felt that my presence made someone else truly feel ill towards me. I hated it, I despised it. I wanted to support my friends around me but it seemed as if they were being picked off one by one in this newly formed progression era.

So I deleted my characters, packed up my bags and left the game. I didn't want to support something I didn't feel comfortable in.

That Deathwing kill wasn't mine, it was the 5 others players in the group who assisted me that month in theory crafting, Dungeons and Raid Finder. Some of these players are despised by many members in Zen, others are loved. They've helped me in so many ways and I can only offer to see through the flaws others feel threatened by in order to understand them as a human being. Or in this case, defend them.

I came back to Warcraft because I love the game and felt abandonment over a complex social issue shouldn't be my cause for leaving Warcraft. I made a mistake.

Then once again the same problems came back over the past few months.

The final straw was when our Leadership wanted to bring a Rogue who hadn't raided since Ulduar. You had a personal beef with that player (Or might I say kid) and heads butted. It wasn't because the player couldn't do it (That had yet to be determined) it was because you once again decided another player was not going to raid in Zen due to your own personal agenda. You despised the kid.

I understand, no one wants to play with someone they don't like. I've put up with it since I came back, you couldn't even do it for one night.

We took that Rogue just last night with the same 9 players you've been doing Heroics with and they came out #2 in DPS. We had no problems with them, no qualms. It was a good night.

I respect these members of Zen, some more than others from our own ingame history. I have an agenda in this game like everyone else. My agenda has been to help those who have helped me and defend those who have helped me from those who have done nothing.

Oh and Raiding of course...

So yes, I do have my own bias opinion on you and probably my own dirty laundry you can spill as well.

Zen has there stakes invested in my Shaman, I hardly own it. The only thing I ever brought to Warcraft was breaking down into mathematical numbers due to my history in those arts. Rotations, Gearing, Talents - that was all taught to me by Zen. Over the past years I've been able to take that advice and apply it. Without it, I would still be in Alterac Valley killing Horde.
90 Pandaren Shaman
Zen
8880
If you want to understand our Guild Leader this is my advice.

You can't tell our Leader how to run his Guild. If you have an opinion, you state it in advice. Don't expect him to agree if you feel it would better the Guild or a few others said so. No one likes to not have an option and I felt your time speaking with him that was always the case. Fist is met with Fist right away and a tussle always presumes after. The better side of moral will never be our leader, as it's a test of character he wants in the Guild. Many who fail end up becoming frustrated with him and leaving. If you pass the test everything you heard will be listened to, if you don't then a brick wall presumes. It is never our leader who creates this wall first, it's the player. Give him a choice, even if it is a majority vote. It's a common courtesy.

Even though our Leader might be just a troll to some, he really puts our (at least my) character to test. He knows that if someone fails this test it's in human nature to lash out. He's accepted that and is known for being a <Insert word here>, but also knows what he wants to do with this Guild for those who don't strike back at the teacher.

I'm respond because of the way you speak of our leader. I want those who wish to join Zen in the future understand how to get in Zen with our current Leadership - not avoid us.

A swift kick or years of raiding await you. As he would say.

If my character looks poor because of this...well I'm a pixel on the internet and I can say whatever I want without repercussions.
85 Night Elf Druid
Zen
8905
Zen can carry any NON geared untrained player you want into current progression heroics, and good luck doing it. It's Not my problem any more, I've washed my hands of you and how you people bully anyone with an opinion.

so to you leo, who stabbed me in the back without so much as a hint of civility, I have nothing to say, and no opinions of what you do with yourself...
Edited by Shakou on 8/22/2012 3:03 PM PDT
90 Pandaren Shaman
Zen
6010
heheh thanks for putting ignorance in it's place, Yeah if you look at my profile on this toon it says Onyxia Feat of STR 2008, which is when cheeses were added, I went to college for 4 years and only just started srsly playing again towards the end of 2010, which is why everything else says 2010...

but if you REALLLY want to get technical with me...

http://i.imgur.com/K2ZuW.jpg

I certainly hope this clears up any misconceptions you may have had... Have a good time raiding progression content, I certainly will. Though I am a bit puzzled, for people who keep telling me to calm down... / let things go... you guys sure do a lot of work trying to keep this going...

I am no longer fighting zen in this thread but i will continue to laugh at simple people, because it amuses me how you have absolutely nothing to talk about in your guild besides me.


ok, so you got it on Onyxia's Lair (Level 60) Defeat the classic, level 60 version of Onyxia. 11/03/2008 when it was to become said Feat.

You claimed MC and that was done Molten Core Defeat Ragnaros. 10 12/11/2010

sooo.... you did MC after Ony. ... also so you know when lich king came out and achivments were able to be done was October 14, 2008. This means you still did not do the 40man content when it was back in "the day"

Posting a History like you did on http://i.imgur.com/K2ZuW.jpg only shows you have had an account open OR using someone else's info. It still don't prove your raiding experiance prior to Achiments. Also your achivments was done well after the content was easy to do. If your achivement dates matched or were done on the 1st day and you got them all like lots of people who did raid old school things, well then... it would show in the dates. they would all have the October dates, not November and later.
90 Pandaren Shaman
Zen
6010
08/22/2012 01:52 PMPosted by Rophy
Many of the achivments are fixed, and there are people with 2009 and 2008 and such for achivments if you look up toons. just saying. also, why not do /played or such. to show when you were made/started too. also, on blizzard sites u can look up what toons are named changed and such aswell and old info, blizzard has it.


achievements didn't come into the game until just before wrath of the lich king. the 3rd set of content. Naxx40 was back in vanilla wow. You -can't- have the achievement for that content because at that point there wasn't one.

I honestly don't care how this all goes either way but if you are going to try to call someone out don't be ignorant.

08/22/2012 12:52 PMPosted by Cecrops
f you look at his profile you can see he is wearing all of the Felheart stuff from Molten Core, yet in my achievement area I have no credit for clearing Molten Core.


^^^ also this.


he got the achivments well after they came out. thanks.
85 Night Elf Druid
Zen
8905
nitia i have no idea who you are, but you are absolutely 100% wrong, and any vanilla player... actually every vanilla player HAS told you so. Blizzard wasnt exactly on top of updating achievements...

if you want to be so entirely on top of me about my account history and the potential i scammed it off of someones account in the 5 minutes it took me to print screen crop upload and post... why not pay closer attention to all of the nilla dungeon cheesements that are not "complete" on this toon... I assure you I have been to EVERY dungeon in and off of azeroth, but it will NOT give me credit for them for the very reason that i haven't cared to go re complete them... If you also notice under feats of strength you will find Sulfuras hand of ragnaros... That was my motivation for going back to molten core...

and any novice would know that you absolutely NEEDED MC / BWL gear to kill ony...

feel free to try again. scrub.
Edited by Shakou on 8/22/2012 3:12 PM PDT
90 Night Elf Hunter
12235
Okay after sitting here reading all 4 pages of these posts, I feel the need to say a few words.... then may mean nothing but its my thoughts an opinions on an issue i have listened to many of you talk to me about before and after the return of Pen, not to mention my own *Zen* experience on Whyspers (she has since transfered servers an name changed)

I have played this game since the release of LK and even had a toon in Zen; Nyghtmyst (Xtasy now) i would talk to Pen from time to time. I have a great respect for Pen and what he has built, and in saying that i admit i dont totally agree with everything he says or does. Over the years I see his guild as well as his person being verbally assaulted in trade chat and on forums. One guild is not right for everyone just as surely as we arent going to like everyone either.

Starting with the minor comments: I dont mean this to be rude, but I dont understand why people that werent around during any of this such as Nitia are even commenting back to this issue. Next Arch/Anon your just trying to add fuel to the fire..... Pen grats on your return and the changes you have wrought as i have heard that some things have gotten better.... as well as other issues were ........ "muzzled" for lack of a nicer term to use.

Shak, I for the most part in the beginning had alot of fun raiding with y'all, and concider you my friend..... i hope that still holds after i make my comments here. The assigned raid leaders, did their job for the most part to the best of their abilities, but failed to hold in check the 3 people who thought they were better than everyone else. Peoples voices werent heard when they brought their issues to officers because of the way these 3 elitists were treating people, verbal abuse ran rampant... and all some of us ever heard was "we will talk to them" but was summed up in a few short words of one raid leader and feel that that was the general concensus of the people in charge of raiding... "They can say what ever they like .... as long as they are pulling the numbers" and I felt like that was what you were telling me the last time we spoke in vent. Anyways thats in the past now....

but here is what i see now from the changes im told about..... Pen has taken away cauldrons an feasts from raid........ i see this as good it forces everyone to be self reliant and not expect one or two people to provide for all all the time. 8 oclock is raid oclock went by the wayside sure we would all gather to greedily get our portion of ep but we would never get into the actual raid until very least a half hr later. hopefully he has also dealt with the lack of baseline player courtesy from a certain few, as in feel it was greatly eatting away at the raid morale.

good luck in the future, Pen ........ who knows i may come back an take a peek at Zen
Shak enjoy where your at now i feel it will be more enjoyable for you also.
90 Pandaren Shaman
Zen
6010
Zen can carry any NON geared untrained player you want into current progression heroics, and good luck doing it. It's Not my problem any more, I've washed my hands of you and how you people bully anyone with an opinion.

so to you leo, who stabbed me in the back without so much as a hint of civility, I have nothing to say, and no opinions of what you do with yourself...


Thats because you fail to see the truth, and when its there... you ignore it or pretend it wasn't said. I almost feel sorry for you. Take a break from WoW...you need it
90 Pandaren Shaman
Zen
6010
nitia i have no idea who you are, but you are absolutely 100% wrong, and any vanilla player... actually every vanilla player HAS told you so. Blizzard wasnt exactly on top of updating achievements...

if you want to be so entirely on top of me about my account history and the potential i scammed it off of someones account in the 5 minutes it took me to print screen crop upload and post... why not pay closer attention to all of the nilla dungeon cheesements that are not "complete" on this toon... I assure you I have been to EVERY dungeon in and off of azeroth, but it will NOT give me credit for them for the very reason that i haven't cared to go re complete them... If you also notice under feats of strength you will find Sulfuras hand of ragnaros... That was my motivation for going back to molten core...

and any novice would know that you absolutely NEEDED MC / BWL gear to kill ony...

feel free to try again. scrub.


I never said anything about scamming anything... YOU just did... guilty of something?

so your saying that and yet didnt complete these 40mans til later because you wanted to go back, also you did the Ony well after you were over geared and later.. READ what I posted your achivments would have shown ealier then you did... so try again thanks. Your not giving any true proof of you raiding So..... try again on that too with proof.

:D
85 Night Elf Druid
Zen
8905
really nitia who are you, you've been in the guild like 4 days... you have absolutely zero ground to stand on... and your making yourself look like a butt boy.... what part of you are not my problem go away do you not understand.

there is no truth other than what you yourselves have proven in this very venue.... you are ignorant bullies... that operate on seat of your pants logic... and that is just sad.

I could go get my Drakefire Amulet and post pics but you dont know what that is, nor do you understand what it means either... Your ignorance is not worth my time.

Whyspers, thanks for your comment, and i entirely agree with you, the consensus always was, as long as elitists pull the numbers they can get away with nearly anything if it is for the greater good... my hands were tied by it, but its not going to be any easier or different anywhere else, so that is more or less the sad truth of raiding. if players cant make the cut they get hazed and that is how people are, much of what I did in guild was to stop or redirect such hazing into positives... but I am not all powerful... players have their own opinions and often speak them, having a thick skin goes with the territory.
Edited by Shakou on 8/22/2012 3:30 PM PDT
90 Pandaren Shaman
Zen
6010
Starting with the minor comments: I dont mean this to be rude, but I dont understand why people that werent around during any of this such as Nitia are even commenting back to this issue. Next Arch/Anon your just trying to add fuel to the fire..... Pen grats on your return and the changes you have wrought as i have heard that some things have gotten better.... as well as other issues were ........ "muzzled" for lack of a nicer term to use


Well I just comenting on a guy who talks like he is on the high mountain with no free will under pen, and thats not true.

Then also stats he knows sooo much more then Pen who with Zen showed him how to raid and has no proof on anything.

I think he fails to read his own words. He really seems like he needs to seek help in real life and take time away from WoW, His dreamland needs to take a step back.
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