RAIDERS

90 Human Priest
Zen
9655
Urban Legend #3
“Pen only gears up his buddies, Zen “uses” people to get gear and then kicks them.”

False.

I do not “give” anyone gear. Gear is Earned. I have never been carried, and I am not in the habit of carrying others. Quite simply, gear is earned by the raid teams that go out and win fights.

We have a saying in Zen, one of our oldest philosophies in the guild,
“A stronger You, is a stronger Me, is a stronger Us.”

In other words, gearing up the entire team is more important than gearing up any one individual. We use the most fair loot distribution system we can possible use. Great care and consideration has always been used in Zen to ascertain fair distribution of gear and loot.

Brand new members attending their very first raid event in our guild have a better chance of winning loot than our senior players. And this is not an uncommon occurrence.

We utilize a mathematical formula for loot distribution:
Effort Points/Gear Points=Priority Rating
(100 base number and a decay three times per lockout period at 30% for each decay)

You may Google “EPGP” for more information on this method.

Effort Points are earned by attending our events, and for downing bosses. Gear points are assigned when a player wins loot. Unlike some guilds, we know how to properly implement the EPGP loot distribution system by “Decaying” EPGP three times per week, at the rate of 30% decay. This prevents players from hoarding their points, and encourages them to spend points on gear before that EP is decayed away. Likewise, the decay is how GP is diminished as well; allowing members to get right back into the loot chance again.

A new member on their very first raid gains 500 EP just for showing up, and then earns points for every boss they help kill. A new member has 0 Gear Points, so therefore their Priority Rating is very high.

Example: NewPlayer gains 500 EP for showing up, and earns 1000 EP for each of 3 bosses killed. This equals 3500/0 (3500 Effort Points over 0 Gear Points), resulting in a priority rating of 35.

Only so many players in a raid will be competing for the same gear pieces. Senior members most likely already have those pieces of gear from previous runs. A new member is in a great position to gain gear right away. And again…

“A stronger You, is a stronger Me, is a stronger Us.”

We want new members of the team to gain gear and thereby make the entire team stronger.
Reply Quote
90 Human Priest
Zen
9655
Those first three Urban Legends seem to be the most prevalent of false rumors that we encounter about the guild.

Now I shall address some of the more bitter and nasty of claims made by specific players as an attempt to harm our recruiting efforts. I do not pretend to understand the causality of such statements, nor do I understand the motivation to cause harm to a guild that should not in any way affect these folks. I mean really, what purpose does guild bashing or name calling serve in a video game designed for entertainment? I honestly do not understand the reasoning behind this sort of thing, but I do take offense at this senseless, habitual behavior from certain players.

“Zen sux, Pen is Fat, Zen Sux, Don’t join Zen, they Suck” is something we see constantly in Tarde Channel.

Now, as a responsible guild leader, I feel it prudent to go out there and see just what makes Zen suck so bad and other guilds so much better. I *may* have more than one WoW account, and I *may* have plenty of loose toons to spread around to other guilds in an effort to see how great guilds operate. I feel that observing other guild operations and policies is a good way to research improvements for our own guild, right?

I can honestly say, we do have some great guilds on this realm. Some are very nicely managed and would be a wonderful experience for most players. I am biased; obviously, I think Zen is the best run guild on SoE Alliance side. But hey, if the grass is greener somewhere else, I should go see for myself what makes it so green, right?

With that in mind, I admit that I get my alt toons into just about every guild on our realm.

I consider it a learning process and research effort.

In all fairness though, I allow folks from other guilds to come check out Zen. Encourage it in fact. Sometimes players think they are “sneaking” into Zen… but honestly, we accept any player that wants to join, regardless of where their Main plays, and even when I already know who that main is =)

We have nothing to hide, and do not mind at all sharing our methods with other guilds. A stronger You, is a Stronger Me, is a Stronger Us also applies to raising the quality of our realm community overall. I am all for that =)

Note: I do not use dishonest methods of getting my toons placed into other guilds. Quite often the process is as easy as creating a new character and standing around Northshire Abbey until an auto-invite macro is launched in whispers to me. Some guilds apparently use addons to recruit newbie toons en masse to their guilds. I do not agree with using these types of addons, but it certainly makes my covert missions much easier to accomplish.

So, /salute to auto-recruit addons.

Auto-Recruit-Addon = Pen is IN *wink*
Reply Quote
90 Human Priest
Zen
9655
Urban Legend #4
“Zen ‘uses’ people to get gold and then kicks them.”

So I decided to re-role one of my spare toon slots one day. I started out on my beginner quests with eyes wide open, seeking low-level adventure. Suddenly, out of the blue I receive a Guild-Recruit-Addon whisper. The invitation was sent by a player that constantly grieifs my adverts in Tarde Channel.

Driab invited me to join <Timelords> without even chatting me first, just an auto-macro generated by the addon. My experience in this guild was filled by constant Zen bashing in their gchat. Driab addressed me in gchat as Pen several times, and then apologized in whispers if I were not Pen…

I located their Vent info, I hopped in there to see if anyone was on. I found a nice lad there and we had a little chat. I quite enjoyed talking with him, apparently the son of the Guild Mom. He informed me that the guild doesn’t raid because the “Raid Leader” plays on a laptop that would not support raid encounters, the video card and machine were not capable of raid. That made me wonder why Driab constantly talked so much trash about Zen’s raiding program, when he himself could not raid at all?

I asked about all of that in-guild Zen bashing and was informed that Zen recruits players and “uses” them. Quests and player activity earns gold for the Zen bank, and then Pen kicks the players.

My reply: If Zen recruits players to earn gold for the bank, why would they kick those players? It seems as if the players were generating gold, it wouldn’t make sense to kick them. Why kill a cash cow? It would make better sense to keep the members so that they would continue generating all of that free gold? That just doesn’t add up. Clearly, solid logic is not a component of urban legends.

In all fairness I would like to say that the Guild Mom seems to be very positive, helpful, generous, and just an all-around really nice lady. I was quite impressed with her care and patience with all of the children in the guild.

While a member of the guild, I sent 250 gold to each of four players in the guild so that they could purchase Epic Tabards for themselves to help them level their guild rep faster. I considered that a friendly gesture and the players seemed to appreciate the gifts. An hour later, one of these same players was calling me curse-words and generally saying some very hurtful and unkind things to me, entirely unprovoked, I am a perfect stranger to this ungrateful player.

I absolutely did not cause any problems, drama, or hurt that guild in any way. I was careful to be only positive and would have happily provided assistance or resources if they had been friendly.

So, after dropping 1000 gold to member players and being cussed at, hearing my guild bashed in their gchat for several hours… I took my leave. Nothing positive was gained by the experience.

It was clear to me that the entire purpose of the guild was simply to trash-talk Zen. It is my wish that someday they aspire to a better cause than just that.
Reply Quote
90 Human Priest
Zen
9655
Urban Legend #5
“Zen is just a bunch of braggers. Posting achievements is an insult to other guilds.”

Guild recruiting advertisements are exactly that, advertisements. Advertisements designed to convey what makes Zen a great guild choice.

I was watching TV today, and I saw an automobile manufacturer’s advertisement where they talked about industry awards the car had won, and showing the features of the car.

“J. D. Powers and Associates Award for Best in Class” (Is this not an “achievement”?)
Features include a kickin’ stereo, leather seats, sporty wheels, and a stylish paint scheme, 37 m.p.g. and a power sunroof, etc. etc.


Nothing surprising there, this is merely a car company trying to convey why their product is a good choice. I did notice that immediately following the commercial was NOT some other car company proclaiming that…

MERCEDES BENZ SUCKS. Don’t buy a Mercedes, they are just bragging with that J. D. Powers award. Mercedes is a Piece of !@#$ and the CEO is Fat and lives in his Mom’s Basement.


Why? Because in the real world, advertisers are held to certain standards of liability, and competitors are held to certain standards to avoid slander. In WoW, clearly these standards do not apply. Any idiot with $15 per month and a connection to the interwebz can say anything they want, right?

Guild recruiting on a low-to-mid population realm such as SoE is tough, we all know that. So why wouldn’t guild advertisements try to leverage achievements or special benefits in an effort to set themselves apart from the competition?

Zen is a very active guild. [Realm-First Guild Level 25] Clearly illustrates that.
Zen gets stuff done. [Heroic Madness of Deathwing: Guild Run] Clearly illustrates that.

Is this bragging? Does this in any way disrespect other guilds or insult them?

I think not. I think it merely a conveyance of proof to back up the claims of being an active guild that gets stuff done. Call those links the WoW equivalent to citations for credibility. I do not in any way see this as a foul.

Do you honestly base your guild choice on:
“<Blah Blah> is recruiting. Level 12 guild with 5 bank tabs and a tabard. PST for invite”

…or would you rather see some proof of activity and accomplishment?
Reply Quote
90 Human Priest
Zen
9655
News Flash: All guilds can have a Tabard, and all guilds can have bank tabs.

It only takes 4 signatures to register a guild charter now.

The guild tabard costs like 10g to design.

The first guild bank tab costs 100g, the second one is only 200g, and so on.

With the guild leveling daily cap removed, even a small guild can level up quite quickly now.

For less than 500g a brand new guild with just a handful of members can level up quickly, have a Tabard, and a few bank tabs… and advertise:

“<Blah Blah> is recruiting. We are leveling up fast, have a Guild Tabard and bank tabs. PST for Invite.”

That’s great. It’s wonderful. But is it an insult to that upstart guild when Zen has 8 bank tabs, an epic tabard, was first on the realm to level 25, runs 25-Player raids every week and clears content like crazy while using best-in-game gear and has ALL of the currently available Guild Perks and Rewards?

I don’t think so. Zen is a well-established guild that is over 3 years old and has been raiding since day one. Of course Zen has all of the goodies, as they well should. Other guilds merely need to keep working at it, and eventually they’ll have all the goodies too. Zen does not in any way prevent them from leveling, raiding, or recruiting.

Which leads us to our next urban legend….
Reply Quote
90 Human Priest
Zen
9655
Urban Legend #6
“All level 25 guilds have the same guild perks and rewards, we have everything that Zen has.”

False.

“Guild Perks” are based on Guild Level. All level 25 guilds have the same Perks as any other, when they reach level 25.

“Guild Rewards” are based on Guild Achievements. These are above and beyond mere guild leveling. These are special achievements that provide extra rewards for the guilds that accomplish them.

A good example of that is the 8th guild bank tab. Small guilds may find it difficult to earn the guild achievement “Classy”. Zen has had the 8th bank tab for a very long time. Many level 25 guilds still do not have that particular Reward.

Having 8 guild bank tabs does not make Zen a better guild.

But… claiming that all level 25 guilds have the same perks and rewards as Zen is not a truthful statement.

This may seem like a minor point to make, and it is. But I cover this urban legend because it illustrates how some guilds out there truly are ill-informed when making adamant claims, choosing to spout false information rather than researching the facts.

I have placed alts into 2 of the guilds that constantly make claims that their guild has everything that Zen has… and when I look at the Guild Rewards page in their Guild Info screen… I see they have a few missing rewards.

Let us be very clear here: Zen has Every guild Perk And Every guild Reward that is currently available in this game. (That will change as soon as MoP launches, but for now, we have every possible thing unlocked.)

Yes, I realize this is a pretty petty point to make… but while I am debunking bull!@#$, I figured I would cover this one too.
Reply Quote
90 Human Warrior
14735
http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/09/17/officers-quarters-five-ways-to-spot-scam-guilds
Edited by Macbride on 9/20/2012 12:51 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Human Priest
Zen
9655
09/20/2012 12:50 PMPosted by Macbride
http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/09/17/officers-quarters-five-ways-to-spot-scam-guilds


Thanks for the post Macbride.

The article provides a few handy tips.

The most helpful thing in the article is a link to WoWrealms.com. That website is handy for checking where players come from, where they've been and transfer dates. Guild leaders should know about this website.

Zen avoids the other issues mentioned in the article by providing easy access to our officers. My real-world email address is located in my Member notes for example, and we have a website that is hosted on our own domain and servers. That shows some amount of permanence and stability, I would think.

Zen is now more than 3 years old, and has been a successful guild from day one, born right here on SoE.

We never ask members for gold, and discourage them from depositing gold in our bank. What we do encourage is for them to farm mats and supplies, which we then pay them for from the guild gold. So not only do we discourage members from contributing gold to the guild, we encourage them to earn guild gold for farming the mats we need. This way, the guild is actually paying the members gold. I have paid out in excess of 100,000 gold in the last 2 months to guild members for their farming mats.

Our Ventrilo service, guild domain name, and guild website server are provided free of charge to our members. I pay for those services myself. I have also bought members items that they need such as headphones and other hardware, helped with subscription or expansion costs, and generally try to help our guildies enjoy their game play as best I can. Over the last 3 years of operating this guild I have contributed several hundred real-life dollars towards that end.

When a guild provides these type of services, you can be certain that they are sincere in creating a great guild experience for their members.

Thank you for the post Macbride, and the opportunity to discuss some of these Zen services.

Have a great day,
- Penelopae, Guild Leader
Reply Quote
90 Human Priest
Zen
9655
Rockin' the Raid for All the Right Reasons!
Reply Quote
90 Human Warlock
Zen
12035
Their was no time for pop corn on this post ... :(
Reply Quote
90 Human Mage
Zen
13415
09/20/2012 11:27 AMPosted by Penelopae
Here you go Frostbite, let’s see if a taste of truth will suffice to sate some report-happy souls’ appetite for complaint fodder.


Pen saddly the truth does not suffice for many of the people in the game, We are some of the last of a dying breed. :(
Reply Quote
90 Human Priest
Zen
9655
The best solution that I can provide in this game is to operate a guild for good folks, fair folks, and make that guild experience as good as I possibly can for them.

Do that, and offer to share that same opportunity for all of our neighbors and friends on SoE.

Any and all players that want to contribute in this effort, and enjoy this game in a positive guild environment are welcome to join us.

Zen, where you really want to be.
- Penelopae
Reply Quote
1 Gnome Rogue
0
09/20/2012 12:50 PMPosted by Macbride
http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/09/17/officers-quarters-five-ways-to-spot-scam-guilds


Honestly it's funny, when I was glancing at the long-winded posts - three hundred words to say a sentence worth - the same thing flashed through my mind. I'm glad I wasn't the only one.

I've had only a few dealings with Zen members, some good, some bad, but the Trade dealings (both H and A) I've had have been nothing but a nuisance and an irritation, swimming with gloating and insults. I advise avoiding like the plague.
Edited by Rijdite on 10/3/2012 2:31 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
Zen
0
You know your creating a bad dealing with the guild when you troll on the open forums.
Reply Quote
90 Human Priest
Zen
9655
10/03/2012 02:31 PMPosted by Rijdite
http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/09/17/officers-quarters-five-ways-to-spot-scam-guilds


Honestly it's funny, when I was glancing at the long-winded posts - three hundred words to say a sentence worth - the same thing flashed through my mind. I'm glad I wasn't the only one.

I've had only a few dealings with Zen members, some good, some bad, but the Trade dealings (both H and A) I've had have been nothing but a nuisance and an irritation, swimming with gloating and insults. I advise avoiding like the plague.


Did you really just create a level-1 un-guilded alt to post a message questioning my honesty and integrity? Really?

Yes, I recruit all the time, and I recruit from both factions. Why not?

Plenty of folks play both factions. We actually accommodate players that have raid nights or guild obligations on either side. Why would we exclude good folks from our guild based purely on what toons they play or what factions they play?

Zen is open to any player that wishes to enjoy a fair and fun group of people and get the best benefits available in this game.

You imply that somehow Zen is a scam? How so, exactly? Please help us all understand why this could be the case?

I am the leader of Zen. I pay for the Ventrilo service, I provide the hosting and content for our guild website. Myself and other officers have very often paid for hardware and software in real-life dollars for members that needed a little help. This guild has been successfully operating on Sisters of Elune for well over 3 years now.

That doesn’t sound like some fly-by-night scam guild to me. That sounds more like a solid, stable, wonderful guild environment that welcomes players of all ages, skill, experience, and gear level.
So, Rijdite… why don’t you share with us the story of your guild, and share with us the things you have done to make SoE a better place to play? What has your guild contributed to new players and the community in general? Owait… you do not even have the balls to post with a main character or guild name associated with your post… oh yeah.

You don’t like me. You don’t like my guild. And here is why: Because I will call your !@# out for stuff like this. Just one more $%^--talker on an anonymous alt. Amirite?

Zen, welcoming wonderful folks to join our guild community.

Zen, pissing on griefers since 2009 =)
Reply Quote
66 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
10/06/2012 08:25 AMPosted by Penelopae
Zen, pissing on griefers since 2009 =)


Hey, some people pay for that kind of service.
Reply Quote
100 Orc Warrior
11915
Someone is trying way, way, way too hard.
Edited by Blackhowl on 10/7/2012 9:13 PM PDT
Reply Quote
1 Gnome Rogue
0
Did you really just create a level-1 un-guilded alt to post a message questioning my honesty and integrity? Really?


Argue with the content of my post, not the character I post on. Besides, this particular little gnome is hardly anonymity.

Yes, I recruit all the time, and I recruit from both factions. Why not?

(The six sentences after this one were unnecessary filler.)


Recruiting and insult flinging/starting mud-slinging wars on Trade are two different things.

You imply that somehow Zen is a scam? How so, exactly? Please help us all understand why this could be the case?

(Everything after this sentence, too, was unnecessary filler.)


Let me requote myself, because I don't think you read it the first time.

Honestly it's funny, when I was glancing at the long-winded posts - three hundred words to say a sentence worth - the same thing flashed through my mind. I'm glad I wasn't the only one.


Nowhere did I claim it was a scam, only that I got the same strong impression that the poster I had quoted had received, based on the way you come across.

Please, not so much filler next time. I can rifle through it but my eyes mostly just glaze over.
Edited by Rijdite on 10/7/2012 10:14 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Human Mage
Zen
13415
Pen... ugh.... look what you have done now! You hurt their feelings! :( Now I gotta get all up in this forum.

10/07/2012 10:13 PMPosted by Rijdite
Besides, this particular little gnome is hardly anonymity.
I am gonna admit I am not the best a guessing games :(. So who are you little one?

way, way, way too
I love how each "way" looked different.
Reply Quote
66 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
10/08/2012 04:38 AMPosted by Frostbitë
way, way, way too

I love how each "way" looked different.

forum art
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]