DK Tanks - Let's see your builds!

90 Orc Warrior
10110
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#d!01021.

Talents

1: Roiling Blood. With Outbreak going back to a 1 minute cooldown, and Boiling Blood now becoming a proc, this is required to keep diseases up without taking up a death strike.

2: Anti-Magic Zone. I am unconvinced by Purgatory. I've lived without it thus far, so until the evidence mounts up I'll skip it. I'm not happy to lose Lichborne, but I'm happy to have a raid cooldown.

3: Death's Advance. I'm tempted to go with Chillblains, for a permanent 50% slow on targets. But I like the idea of having a permanent movement speed buff.

4: Conversion. This is a fantastic talent, honestly. It has no cooldown, and as a tank, my rune power is always full.

5: Runic Empowerment. I'm not happy to have to choose between two abilities when I'm used to having both, but I finally decided to go with the passive one.

Glyphs

Major

Anti-Magic Shell: 100% damage reduction? Yes please.

Vampiric Blood: Same as always.

Death Coil: I didn't see a better option

Minor

Path of Frost, Horn of Winter, Corpse Explosion. This is totally a matter of preference.
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88 Night Elf Death Knight
7170
5: Runic Empowerment. I'm not happy to have to choose between two abilities when I'm used to having both, but I finally decided to go with the passive one.


You can make Blood Tap passive by using this macro:
#showtooltip
/cast Rune Strike
/cast Blood Tap

This will automatically allow it to refresh your rune without any other clicks. It's also not a RNG number, but a consistent return. If you have no eligible runes for refreshing, then it will not use stacks. You may want to add a line to not show error codes though, the "No runes to refresh" will be on your screen a lot otherwise.
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90 Orc Warrior
10110
I actually switched to Runic Corruption, and it's craaaaaazy. Even with the one second global cooldown I'm never without a rune to hit.
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90 Tauren Death Knight
8920
08/28/2012 10:46 PMPosted by Cavak
This will automatically allow it to refresh your rune without any other clicks. It's also not a RNG number, but a consistent return. If you have no eligible runes for refreshing, then it will not use stacks. You may want to add a line to not show error codes though, the "No runes to refresh" will be on your screen a lot otherwise.

macoring BT in that way ruins Blood Tap. Blood tap is the best DK t5 choice (for survivability), but only because we can control when we regain the death strikes we get from that tier. Having a DS when you need it is SOOO much more important than overall throughput until you get down into 5m damage where you can almost maintain complete blood shield by spamming.

By macroing you lose the ability to hang on to that DS, and you might as well take RE or RC.
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90 Troll Warrior
16215
I don't quite agree with your logic about Purgatory, but for present game AMZ is probably more useful anyways (lol new expansion patch). I'd also opt for Corruption over Empowerment, but that's mostly because it's what I was more comfortable with from Unholy.

For the self-healing tier, I dunno if I'm going to use conversion. I'd rather be able to pump out Rune Strikes, and just stick with Death Pact.
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90 Orc Warrior
10110
After some testing, Death Syphon looks to be a better self healing tool for magic damage than is Death Strike. Unlike DS, the heal is based off your damage done, and your damage done is buffed by vengeance. If you're in a fight were the blood shield is sitting at max the whole fight, death syphon is amaaaaaaazing.
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80 Draenei Shaman
550
I never was a fan of Rune Tetris. Runic Corruption plus Blood Tap is a lot more effective for me and permits me to predict my Death Strikes a lot more evenly.

I heart Roiling Blood, but I will probably be grabbing Plague Leech for single target fights.

I expect Death Syphon and Death Pact will be the two main contenders for that tier. Death Syphon will likely pull ahead for 25 man. I'll hang onto Chillblains for add fights.

Purgatory will be nice for situations where AMZ isn't necessary. Keep in mind that AMZ is just against magic damage and not all encounters have that in an AoE setting.

Glyph of AMS is kind of meh; 100% damage reduc still runs into the HP cap. If the cap remains high enough not to be touched, it'll be amazing; otherwise it may cut the length of your cooldown, which can be devastating on your healers. (Void Bold anyone?)

Bottom line? I'll be switching talents like crazy. Same with my druid, warrior and paladin. Same with my monk I expect.

And I think that's the way it should be.
Edited by Loveshðck on 8/29/2012 1:25 PM PDT
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90 Orc Warrior
10110
You hit the nail on the head, Loveshock. There is no such thing as a cookie cutter spec any more. In HDS last night, my cotank and I (another DK) were shifting talents and glyphs every fight. Physical fight with no harsh DPS requirements? I'll go for Conversion. Magic fight with steady damage? Death Syphon. Heroic Madness? Glyph of Death and Decay (which made the fight even easier than normal).
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88 Night Elf Death Knight
7170
macoring BT in that way ruins Blood Tap. Blood tap is the best DK t5 choice (for survivability), but only because we can control when we regain the death strikes we get from that tier. Having a DS when you need it is SOOO much more important than overall throughput until you get down into 5m damage where you can almost maintain complete blood shield by spamming.

By macroing you lose the ability to hang on to that DS, and you might as well take RE or RC.


I'm not sure what you are talking about here. Again the macro is:
#showtooltip
/cast Rune Strike
/cast Blood Tap

This doesn't force you to use death strike at any particular time, for any reason. It simply attempts to reactivate a fully depleted rune as a death rune. This actually makes death strike available more often, or any abilities available more often.

You still decide when (if) to spend that Death Strike. If you do not have any fully depleted runes, it does not spend any blood tap resources. You simply have more resources more often, without the % chance to activate that come with using RE or RC. It is only a more predictable return. If you use a mod for DK runes you will see easily when a Death Rune activates.

Sine you will be using RS to generate Blood Tap stacks it will work like this:
You have 4 BT Charges, then hit your macro. The RS gives you 2 more, and then instantly attempts to return a fully depleted rune. If you have no fully depleted runes, nothing happens except your Rune Strike, and you still build your BT charges. If, perhaps, you are out of RP and have fully depleted runes one GCD later then you can hit your RS macro which will not be able to cast RS (due to being out of RP) but will refresh a rune. The only difference is that resources are available immediately following the charge accrual if possible, meaning you can DS faster, if you need to.

One less button press will result in minutes of less button pushing time over a long fight, since BT is off the GCD, and will occur with a button you will need to press often anyway.
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80 Draenei Shaman
550
The point is that macroing abilities almost always results in a net loss of effectiveness and flexibility.

Functioning is not the same as optimal, and as a tank you should always be striving to optimize.
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90 Draenei Warrior
14070
as a human being you should always be striving to optimize.


Fix'd.
-----
Combat tables, diminishing returns and you!
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2489160859
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90 Worgen Death Knight
0
08/28/2012 10:59 PMPosted by Gruklaar
I actually switched to Runic Corruption, and it's craaaaaazy. Even with the one second global cooldown I'm never without a rune to hit.


I agree with this guy. corruption Is far better. also grab death pact Instead of conversion. because If your runic power Is maxed your wrong when using corruption. also Its a huge threat builder to spam rune strike plus Its how you keep your runes on regen.
Edited by Vileintent on 8/31/2012 2:14 AM PDT
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90 Worgen Death Knight
0
Im going to make another statement. always keep your runic power low unless your building for a big hit for death strike. If your hit capped every hit you land puts a stack on death strike. you gain 20% healing per stack to cap at 100%. also If your death strike misses or Is dodged then you could lose out on the 5 sec window to get your huge heal and blood shield, so make sure your hit and expertise capped to atleast a 0% chance to be dodged, because deathstrike cannot be parried. also If your not using your runic power your not getting runes back even with empowerment so spam that rune strike. we regen runic power like crazy.
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90 Dwarf Death Knight
16570
1- Roiling Blood- This talent is just amazing for tanks. I loves it. Plague leach I could see handy single target if you're using BT or RE, but for RC it looks weak. With RC your FUD runes are always refreshing in pairs so getting a free one just means you're waitig for the other to finish refreshing.

2- Purgatory- With the nerf to our passive mitigation unmitigated hits still hit pretty hard. The other night in DS this saved me a couple of times. I think this is a homerun of a tier for the developers as all 3 options are good and very useful in various situations.

3- Death's Advance- This is a fantastic talent for the tank with the lowest mobility. There are a few situations where the other 2 could be handy, but 95% of the time I will use DA.

4- Death Pact- I went with this one because I like the burst heal. Better for emergencies. The other 2 have their place though, and I'm sure I'll use them both at some point.

5- Runic Corruption- Rune tetris can go die in a fire. I did some tests on BT vs RC because I wanted to see for myself. Theorycrafting is great, but sometimes the results can be different in practice than in a bubble. I ran some regular cata dungeons with both specs. I thought these would be good because stuff still takes awhile to kill and it can be repeated with multiple tests on the same bosses.

Both specs resulted in roughly the same number of DS/minute (this surprised me) even with using the BT DS as soon as it was available, but my dps with RC was much higher (as I expected). BT (unmacroed) did allow me to save a deathstrike for use when wanted/needed, but the window to use it was smaller than I expected. It requires 10 charges to deathstrike, but caps at 12 so it is really easy to waste efficiency. You wind up with a choice of sitting on runes, capping runic power, or runestriking at 12 charges.

Another thing I noticed with BT is that I spent too much time staring at the charges. This didn't really matter in Cata regs but in challenging content it would have lowered my awareness. This would get better with practice I'm sure, but still something to keep in mind. Yes BT can be macroed to be passive, but then you lose it's biggest advantage- contol. At that point you're just running a less efficient RE.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
5665

#showtooltip
/cast Rune Strike
/cast Blood Tap


Ew I think I barfed a bit in my mouth when I saw this :'(
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
4630

5- Runic Corruption- Rune tetris can go die in a fire.


WHY DO YOU HATE ME BRO?!?!?!? :(
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88 Night Elf Death Knight
7170
The point is that macroing abilities almost always results in a net loss of effectiveness and flexibility.

Functioning is not the same as optimal, and as a tank you should always be striving to optimize.


So, saying "not optimal" is great, but you don't really explain why. Blood Tap does nothing except return a resource. The macro'd button will either return the resource immediately upon its availability, or on demand if its the case that you have the charges but not any depleted runes one GCD, and then a fully depleted rune the next GCD.

Again, returning the rune immediately as opposed to waiting does not negate any flexibility, and is in fact optimal. You can choose to not spend the rune immediately and bank it for a different ability. Just because you return a depleted rune doesnt mean you have to spend that one Death Rune on a Heart Strike, but can save it for the next Death Rune or returning rune to Death Strike.

Can you show me an example of when this macro would limit flexibility or be less than optimal?
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
5665
Macro-ing blood tap into rune strike is sub-optimal. It WILL result in lost opportunities to pop runes out. The whole niche of DK tanking is active mitigation and you are trying to make one of your active abilities passive. You don't see the weirdness there? The two abilities should be used separately to maximize the benefits. If you can't understand why then you aren't thinking very hard on the subject. Go ahead and do it if it works for you.
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80 Draenei Shaman
550
The point is that macroing abilities almost always results in a net loss of effectiveness and flexibility.

Functioning is not the same as optimal, and as a tank you should always be striving to optimize.


So, saying "not optimal" is great, but you don't really explain why. Blood Tap does nothing except return a resource. The macro'd button will either return the resource immediately upon its availability, or on demand if its the case that you have the charges but not any depleted runes one GCD, and then a fully depleted rune the next GCD.

Again, returning the rune immediately as opposed to waiting does not negate any flexibility, and is in fact optimal. You can choose to not spend the rune immediately and bank it for a different ability. Just because you return a depleted rune doesnt mean you have to spend that one Death Rune on a Heart Strike, but can save it for the next Death Rune or returning rune to Death Strike.

Can you show me an example of when this macro would limit flexibility or be less than optimal?

If you have a Blood rune a half second away from being off cooldown and you Rune Strike too early (say, to pick up a freshly spawned add), you can refresh the wrong rune rather than refreshing that Death Rune you were hoping for.

It's an uncommon occurrence but it's an example of how macros limit flexibility. If I gave it some thought I could come up with more, but this should be enough to support my point.
Edited by Loveshðck on 9/1/2012 9:34 AM PDT
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88 Night Elf Death Knight
7170
Gojiberry: Terrible job. I asked for specifics and you repeated your general statement with no proof. Unproductive additions aren't going to advance any ideas. Thanks in advance for putting thought into your future responses and not knee-jerk ad-hominem attacks about how I am not thinking my way through the subject.

Loveshðck: Thanks, you presented an actual reason why you think what you do. However, the runes refresh as Death Runes, and only fully depleted ones. I have thought about other instances and haven't come up with any. Your example:
[...] you can refresh the wrong rune rather than refreshing that Death Rune you were hoping for
is one that occurred to me and was dismissed.

This is because: If a blood rune is fully depleted, that means that both blood runes are on CD; if one is, as you suggest, 1/2 second from returning, then returning that one would be unfortunate, since waiting would provide a possible greater return. This is an example of tooltips leading to misinformation in theorycrafting. While it does say "activates a random, fully-depleted rune," the randomness is only across runes, not within them. If all your runes are fully depleted, then its random whether its a blood, frost or unholy rune that is activated into a death rune.

If, for example, your blood rune is chosen, one of which is only 1/2 second from returning, the rune that has not yet begun refreshing will be returned. I hope its clear from experience what I mean when I say "the rune that has not yet begun refreshing." What it means in a practical sense is that the rune with a full 10 seconds (or whatever the number may be, depending on spec, presence, etc) will be the one to activate, and not the one 1/2 second from returning.

In general I agree with you about the evils of macros, and rarely use them in combinations like these (unless its farmed dungeon/questing content so I can mash buttons and catch up on How I Met Your Mother). My interest here is to see if others have real, measurable concepts or data to show why this wouldn't be as good as dancing runes, timing Taps for something other than frenetic button-pushing-fun, or letting runic corruption just speed everything up. Its not to be stubborn, but all I hear is "thats not good obvs, l2p your tank, active is intent so passive must be bad lolz."

Your informations and ideas, I cravez it. Please to share real?
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