Fury of Pandaria: PvE Fury in MoP

90 Worgen Warrior
8560
01/21/2013 12:17 AMPosted by Zerkins
Execute is the only ability that you can fit 4 gcds in a colossus smash AFAIK, due to some weird technical interaction for abilities with cooldowns.


Not at all. That weird GCD buggery I keep trying to get other people to care about(since 5.0.4, hooray for attention to bugs blizzard) seems to have something to do with it, but 4 standard GCDs inside CS is doable almost all of the time.


Yeah, you're right. I have noticed my 4th ability hitting harder than it should off and on.
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90 Worgen Warrior
11760
01/21/2013 02:35 AMPosted by Collision


Not at all. That weird GCD buggery I keep trying to get other people to care about(since 5.0.4, hooray for attention to bugs blizzard) seems to have something to do with it, but 4 standard GCDs inside CS is doable almost all of the time.


Yeah, you're right. I have noticed my 4th ability hitting harder than it should off and on.

Isn't it because the CS debuff is applied slightly late?

I'm reasonable sure this is deliberate.
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90 Worgen Warrior
11760
I'm currently pulling around 58k DPS on the raid dummy over a 10 min duration without buffs (except battle shout). Rogues and hunters with half blues are pulling equal or even higher dps.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/jubeithos/Inbredbaby/simple <---armory link

I lack 2x dancing steel and i'm aware my gear is far from decent (no smf weaps, still have some pvp gear etc). I've worked on my rotation a fair bit but there isn't much improvement.

Here's my questions..

1. Are these numbers expected of my gear/spec? Or is this more of a rotation issue?

2. Are there any massive flaws that I've overlooked that can greatly increase my DPS once fixed? If so, please let me know what they are.

3. How much of a DPS increase should i expect switching to smf once I have access to similar 1h weaps?

4. Are my lack of weapon enchants causing this major lack in DPS? How much of a DPS increase would 2 Dancing steel enchants grant me?

Thank you in advance for any advice you can offer me.

PS. Yes, I know my transmog is awesome.

1. There's a possibility it could be higher, but it's hard to evaluate that without full buffs, is there any possibility you could grab logs on patchwerk style fights in LFR (E.G. Garajal with no spirit realm buff)?
The crit buff in particular is very important for TG.

2. See 1

3. Not that much to be honest, SMF only really starts to pound TG into the ground on fights with a heavy execute phase (I'm looking at you Lei Shi and Elegon), it's noticeable, but not being SMF basically just puts us down into the normal pack of DPS rather than being with the outliers.

4. 2-3k dps is ballpark. It could be higher but it wouldn't be lower than 2k.

Edit: Drop Glyph of Recklessness for Glyph of Raging Blow, and change Avatar to Bloodbath.
Edited by Ferreus on 1/21/2013 3:07 AM PST
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90 Orc Warrior
15955
I'm currently pulling around 58k DPS on the raid dummy over a 10 min duration without buffs (except battle shout). Rogues and hunters with half blues are pulling equal or even higher dps.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/jubeithos/Inbredbaby/simple <---armory link

I lack 2x dancing steel and i'm aware my gear is far from decent (no smf weaps, still have some pvp gear etc). I've worked on my rotation a fair bit but there isn't much improvement.

Here's my questions..

1. Are these numbers expected of my gear/spec? Or is this more of a rotation issue?

2. Are there any massive flaws that I've overlooked that can greatly increase my DPS once fixed? If so, please let me know what they are.

3. How much of a DPS increase should i expect switching to smf once I have access to similar 1h weaps?

4. Are my lack of weapon enchants causing this major lack in DPS? How much of a DPS increase would 2 Dancing steel enchants grant me?

Thank you in advance for any advice you can offer me.

PS. Yes, I know my transmog is awesome.


Edit: Drop Glyph of Recklessness for Glyph of Raging Blow, and change Avatar to Bloodbath.[/quote]1) Your gear being what is is, I would say 58k is about what you should expect from a training dummy.

2) You don't always want to gem for socket bonuses, generally it depends on the bonus and what you can go for it. I probably wouldn't both with the bonus on the boots. I've found askmrrobot to be a very helpful tool to sort out gems and reforges: http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear

3) The difference between TG and SMF largely seems to be based on preference, though SMF does have a minor lead over TG at the moment. I, really, just enjoy SMF more because the faster swings mean more rage to play with.

4)I would say at the very least if you don't want to shell out for Dancing Steel get some Windsongs. It's not perfect, particularly now with haste being so garbage and it being one of the buffs the enchant procs, but the crit and mastery is better than nothing or just having a weapon chain, and they'll last you long enough until you can find either the money, or the right weapons to drop a dancing steel on. Really, the big reason why Dancing steel is considered the best is because it's a fixed bonus instead of random like Windsong, but I would not expect to see a huge bump from getting them.

On what Ferreus said, I'd probably keep Glyph of Recklessness as it is. For fury I think that's just a straight DPS increase, and Glyph of Raging Wind seems more situational and AOE oriented than recklessness is. Also, remember that when reforging it goes Hit/Expertise cap>Crit>Mastery>Haste. If you have a piece of gear without crit, but it has mastery, I would reforge that, but again, send your character through on Askmrrobot and that'll probably get you the best out of your gear.
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90 Worgen Warrior
8560


Yeah, you're right. I have noticed my 4th ability hitting harder than it should off and on.

Isn't it because the CS debuff is applied slightly late?

I'm reasonable sure this is deliberate.


The debuff is applied immediately, it just lasts 6.5 seconds. I hadn't ever investigated it as I didn't think it would change our rotation significantly other than using execute x 4. I still don't think it will, but I will investigate further tonight.

The only possible change that I can think of is postponing blood thirst on the 4th gcd if you have a raging blow proc left over for some reason. (Maybe because of a blood surge proc? Especially with the changes in 5.2)

:edit: for the guy above, glyph of recklessness is a dps loss compared to not using a glyph at all.
Edited by Collision on 1/21/2013 4:47 AM PST
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90 Troll Rogue
8585
01/21/2013 12:17 AMPosted by Zerkins
Execute is the only ability that you can fit 4 gcds in a colossus smash AFAIK, due to some weird technical interaction for abilities with cooldowns.


Not at all. That weird GCD buggery I keep trying to get other people to care about(since 5.0.4, hooray for attention to bugs blizzard) seems to have something to do with it, but 4 standard GCDs inside CS is doable almost all of the time.


which gcd buggery are you talking about? when I first started playing fury again I noticed it was impossible to fit 2 abilities in between BT's without clipping the GCD on the 2nd BT. I posted here and no one really seemed to care. But it seems stupid and probably not intended.
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90 Worgen Warrior
8560
01/21/2013 11:28 AMPosted by Vezax


Not at all. That weird GCD buggery I keep trying to get other people to care about(since 5.0.4, hooray for attention to bugs blizzard) seems to have something to do with it, but 4 standard GCDs inside CS is doable almost all of the time.


which gcd buggery are you talking about? when I first started playing fury again I noticed it was impossible to fit 2 abilities in between BT's without clipping the GCD on the 2nd BT. I posted here and no one really seemed to care. But it seems stupid and probably not intended.


That's because it just isn't happening for most of us, and we haven't really been able to reproduce it except for in cases of lag spikes.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-a5nhn9o7ifl3rh55/log/?s=959&e=1442

[20:04:58.033] Collision Bloodthirst Imperial Vizier Zor'lok *59436* <------- BT
[20:04:59.589] Collision Deep Wounds Imperial Vizier Zor'lok *45075*
[20:04:59.627] Collision Colossus Smash Imperial Vizier Zor'lok *129803* <--------- CS
[20:05:00.041] Collision Heroic Strike Imperial Vizier Zor'lok 63364
[20:05:00.422] Collision Stormlash Imperial Vizier Zor'lok 14656
[20:05:00.824] Collision Stormlash Imperial Vizier Zor'lok 17012
[20:05:01.242] Collision Raging Blow Imperial Vizier Zor'lok 87005 <----------------- RB
[20:05:01.242] Collision Raging Blow Off-Hand Imperial Vizier Zor'lok *163825*
[20:05:01.423] Collision Bloodbath Imperial Vizier Zor'lok 8278
[20:05:01.589] Collision crits Imperial Vizier Zor'lok *112958*
[20:05:01.641] Collision Heroic Strike Imperial Vizier Zor'lok *154985*
[20:05:02.024] Collision Stormlash Imperial Vizier Zor'lok *39187*
[20:05:02.123] Collision crits Imperial Vizier Zor'lok *111139*
[20:05:02.424] Collision Bloodbath Imperial Vizier Zor'lok 17845
[20:05:02.424] Collision Stormlash Imperial Vizier Zor'lok 17659
[20:05:02.444] Collision Bloodthirst Imperial Vizier Zor'lok *141060* <-------- BT

My 2nd bloodthirst was used 4.411 seconds after the 1st bloodthirst. That's about as close as you can get. Doing a log query to only look at bloodthirst usage shows almost every one is within 4.4-4.6 seconds of the last one.
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90 Troll Rogue
8585


which gcd buggery are you talking about? when I first started playing fury again I noticed it was impossible to fit 2 abilities in between BT's without clipping the GCD on the 2nd BT. I posted here and no one really seemed to care. But it seems stupid and probably not intended.


That's because it just isn't happening for most of us, and we haven't really been able to reproduce it except for in cases of lag spikes.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-a5nhn9o7ifl3rh55/log/?s=959&e=1442

[20:04:58.033] Collision Bloodthirst Imperial Vizier Zor'lok *59436* <------- BT
[20:04:59.589] Collision Deep Wounds Imperial Vizier Zor'lok *45075*
[20:04:59.627] Collision Colossus Smash Imperial Vizier Zor'lok *129803* <--------- CS
[20:05:00.041] Collision Heroic Strike Imperial Vizier Zor'lok 63364
[20:05:00.422] Collision Stormlash Imperial Vizier Zor'lok 14656
[20:05:00.824] Collision Stormlash Imperial Vizier Zor'lok 17012
[20:05:01.242] Collision Raging Blow Imperial Vizier Zor'lok 87005 <----------------- RB
[20:05:01.242] Collision Raging Blow Off-Hand Imperial Vizier Zor'lok *163825*
[20:05:01.423] Collision Bloodbath Imperial Vizier Zor'lok 8278
[20:05:01.589] Collision crits Imperial Vizier Zor'lok *112958*
[20:05:01.641] Collision Heroic Strike Imperial Vizier Zor'lok *154985*
[20:05:02.024] Collision Stormlash Imperial Vizier Zor'lok *39187*
[20:05:02.123] Collision crits Imperial Vizier Zor'lok *111139*
[20:05:02.424] Collision Bloodbath Imperial Vizier Zor'lok 17845
[20:05:02.424] Collision Stormlash Imperial Vizier Zor'lok 17659
[20:05:02.444] Collision Bloodthirst Imperial Vizier Zor'lok *141060* <-------- BT

My 2nd bloodthirst was used 4.411 seconds after the 1st bloodthirst. That's about as close as you can get. Doing a log query to only look at bloodthirst usage shows almost every one is within 4.4-4.6 seconds of the last one.


Wow, I stupidly hadn't thought to do a log query, that's a great (and obvious) idea. I checked and most of mine are in pretty much the exact same range, around 4.5. So it seems to be fine. It just feels weird to me that the GCD usually clips.
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90 Worgen Warrior
5975
@Everybody on the GCD thing: as established in both of the threads broken made in the beta, it is a display and lag annoyance. It's only potentially performance-degrading if you're not reacting as fast as simcraft(hint:you aren't, so watch for it). The overall amount of time taken is the same, it's just annoying that there's a delay between click and fire that slows your entire rotation over 5 minutes down by about .4s at the very start of the fight-not a noticeable dps loss unless the way it fails to immediately show proc charges being used tricks you into doing something suboptimal with or without your procs. The lower your lag tolerance, the lower the chance that the glitch will force you to use 4 wild strikes in a row because you spammed them and the GCD for the third didn't spin as it was actually used. Get used to it, apparently they don't mind it being there.
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90 Tauren Warrior
7245
Hey it's been a long time since I've visited here and there is one major change I would like clarified..
Previously, Glyph of Recklessness was recommended as it effectively enabled you to perma-crit your Bloodthirst for 18secs instead of 12. However, Collision's comment above states that using the glyph is actually a DPS loss as opposed to not using a glyph at all.

Can someone please clarify how this is possible and perhaps recommend what glyph I should take instead of it? I'm struggling to understand how extra time being enraged plus extra RB charges could result in a DPS loss over the course of a fight..
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90 Orc Warrior
17020
It was only recommended before I did any testing. I think I had changed it out well before the expansion was out but after 5.0.

What glyph you take depends on the fight. Interrupts? Rude Interruption. AoE? Raging Wind. Anything else? Your choice; Bull Rush isn't bad.
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90 Tauren Warrior
8630
no one in my raid is currently providing weakened armor debuff, my current glyphs are unending rage, death from above and recklessness. Should I remove recklessness for colossus smash?
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90 Orc Warrior
18795
Yes
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90 Worgen Warrior
8560
Should I remove recklessness for any damn glyph in the game?


yes
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90 Orc Warrior
8425
489 Gara'kal and 483 Kilrak, would the AGI weapon still go in the MH considering the higher top end damage?
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90 Orc Warrior
15955
01/23/2013 01:43 PMPosted by Ichijo
489 Gara'kal and 483 Kilrak, would the AGI weapon still go in the MH considering the higher top end damage?
You shouldn't consider Gara'kal at all because it's an agi weapon. Stick with str weapons, especially since you have a 480 off hand. Not to mention Gara'kal's itemization for warriors is pretty garbage. You're sacrificing all of that AP from an STR weapon for a tenth of a percentage of crit from the AGI, and two stats that are generally reforged into Crit.
Edited by Vhera on 1/23/2013 2:44 PM PST
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90 Tauren Warrior
8630
If after I hit BT and RB, but bloodsurge has procced, should I use up all 3 charges and delay the next BT for a bit?
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90 Draenei Death Knight
7485
How is SMF Fury's scaling in 5.2 compared to other melee DPS classes, specifically Frost DKs and Windwalkers? I hear classes that scale off Crit tend to become very strong with ilvl inflation.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
9035
01/23/2013 08:14 PMPosted by Ohforfsake
If after I hit BT and RB, but bloodsurge has procced, should I use up all 3 charges and delay the next BT for a bit?


You should have used those bloodsurge procs instead of just RB.

BSproc>RB+nothing iirc.
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