Fury of Pandaria: PvE Fury in MoP

I just dropped mining and went engineering to help the guild. I just hit 600, now besides Jeeves what do I have to use at my disposal in engineering to make me better? Very new to engineering, and seen a lot of top end warriors going BS/ENG now, so I wanted to know why...thanks!
Reply Quote
90 Orc Warrior
17020
Synapse Springs basically. It's amazing.
Reply Quote
90 Orc Warrior
9360
Hey sorry for asking this very specific question but do you know where 1/2 H Lei Shen's orders would fit?

I realize now I should have fully upgraded when I had the chance rather than saving..
Reply Quote
90 Orc Warrior
6435
Synapse Springs basically. It's amazing.


Speed boost too when it works.
Reply Quote
90 Orc Warrior
15955
Wait, so regarding trinkets, is 2/2 Skullrender better or worse than a 2/2 Relic of Xuen now?
Reply Quote
90 Orc Warrior
18795
Apparently there exists a group of people who think that T15 2pc (hands/pants) is superior to T14 4pc (helm off until Ra-den chest). Something or another about all the crit you'll gain via alternatives choices outweighing the gain from 35% crit banner.

Are they smoking something or is there light to this claim?
Edited by Jalopy on 3/12/2013 5:24 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Warrior
8560
Apparently there exists a group of people who think that T15 2pc (hands/pants) is superior to T14 4pc (helm off until Ra-den chest). Something or another about all the crit you'll gain via alternatives choices outweighing the gain from 35% crit banner.

Are they smoking something or is there light to this claim?


Smoking total crack. I'm guessing you mean T15 4 pc, not T14. The banner is a 1200~ SEP gain, which means that even if the tier pieces were itemized as such:

2000 str
2000 sta
ONLY overcap hit

and you COULDN'T reforge them, it would take 1200 SEP/(0.95 crit sep - 0.41 overcap hit sep) 2222 additional crit to outweigh the tier bonus. That's a total worse case scenario, assuming that the tier pieces don't have haste/mastery/crit, and that we can't reforge our gear, so more than likely it's actually 3500-4000+ crit needed to outweigh the bonus.

People are way too much in love with crit, forgetting that haste/mastery/overcap hit still have value. These are probably the very same group of people who are used the coaster for more than a few minutes.
Edited by Collision on 3/12/2013 11:29 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Warrior
0
1200 SEP according to what? Are you taking into account with Skull Banner that whenever you're using it your Crit value will be very close to 100%? Now, I haven't done any interative math with Simcraft for Crit stat weights at that high of a percent, but I'd imagine the value is quite different from what it is with current gear. We all know that Crit's weight should drop off at roughly 53% because of Blood thirst capping. However, it should still hold some weight due to CSmash Crit and just abilities critting. Regardless, I can't imagine Crit is so close to Strength at those levels of Crit.
Edited by Ochron on 3/12/2013 1:20 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Warrior
8560
As I mentioned to you in-game, I calculated the SEP value by running a simulation in BIS gear with the bonus turned on, then ran another one with the bonus turned off. The dps difference was around 4.2k, and str is worth 3.5~ dps per point for SMF, so just divide those 2 and you get a SEP of 1200.
Reply Quote
100 Dwarf Warrior
AK
23125
Sounds like we're going to have to reexamine trinket values with the unsurprising RPPM trinket buff.
Reply Quote
90 Orc Warrior
18795
I want to say all it does would maybe make some of the LFR/N trinkets higher on the priority, don't think it changes BIS.

E: Nevermind, prelimenary testing says it will.
Edited by Jalopy on 3/13/2013 3:44 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Orc Warrior
17020
GC did say he'd try to get a post up with all the changes either today or sometime soon, so we'll at least have all the details.

See: https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/311641413106425856
Reply Quote
90 Orc Death Knight
15390
Quick question. I have a 497 Starshatter and a 489 Starshatter I'm currently using for TG fury. Just got the 522 1hander off of Jin and was wondering if I should go SMF with a 476 offhand, stay TG with the 2 Starshatters, or go Arms until a second 1hander drops from Jin. Thanks for your help.
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Warrior
11965
Quick question. I have a 497 Starshatter and a 489 Starshatter I'm currently using for TG fury. Just got the 522 1hander off of Jin and was wondering if I should go SMF with a 476 offhand, stay TG with the 2 Starshatters, or go Arms until a second 1hander drops from Jin. Thanks for your help.

522 MH should be better by a very significant margin.
Reply Quote
90 Orc Warrior
17020
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8197741003?page=1#1

Guess that's how they changed them?
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Warrior
8560
I want to say all it does would maybe make some of the LFR/N trinkets higher on the priority, don't think it changes BIS.

E: Nevermind, prelimenary testing says it will.


Yeah. The RPPM changes were as following:


Calculate the proc frequency as normal. Based on that, you can figure out the expected average proc interval. We also now keep track of time since the last successful proc (this is different from the time since last chance to proc), capped at 1000 sec. Multiply the proc chance by MAX(1, 1+((TimeSinceLastSuccessfulProc/AverageProcInterval)-1.5)*3). For example, if a proc has an average proc interval of 45 sec, and it’s been 72 sec since your last successful proc, you’ll get a 1.3x multiplier to your proc chance. If you’ve been out of combat for a few min, and it’s been 5 min since your last successful proc, you’ll get a whopping 16.5x multiplier to your proc chance.

We increased the proc rate of the following trinkets by 10%:
• Renataki’s Soul Charm
• Talisman of Bloodlust
• Bad Juju
• Rune of Re-Origination
• Fabled Feather of Ji-Kun
• Primordius’ Talisman of Rage
• Spark of Zandalar
• Gaze of the Twins


Original proc rates

Strength DPS
- Brutal Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault - 15% chance on landing harmful abilities and spells, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. 75 sec ICD.
- Fabled Feather of Ji-Kun - 0.56 RealPPM on landing harmful abilities and spells, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. 22 sec ICD.
- Primordius’ Talisman of Rage – 3.00 RealPPM on landing harmful abilities and spells, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. No ICD.
- Spark of Zandalar - 5.00 RealPPM on landing harmful abilities and spells, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. No ICD.
- Gaze of the Twins – 0.75*(1+MeleeCritChance) RealPPM on critical harmful abilities and spells, periodic spell, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. No ICD.


New proc rates with 10% increase:
Fabled Feather of Ji-kun: 0.616 RPPM
Primordius: 3.3 RPPM
Spark: 5.50 RPPM
Gaze: 0.825 * (1 + MeleeCritChance) RPPM

The RPPM changes buff all trinkets across the board, but particularly buffs the trinkets with lower RPPMs, as RNG/variability affect them much more due to lower chances to proc on any individual attack. Primordius in particular will get very little boost from the "Bad luck" changes, as it procs fairly consistently in comparison to the others.

The biggest change to the RPPM trinkets (IMO) is the incredibly high chance to proc at the start. Our initial burst damage was highly erratic as trinkets wouldn't proc reliably at the start. Adding in the VERY high chance to proc at the start is an excellent change that boosts the value of the weakest trinket, the Feather.

Unfortunately, these changes do almost nothing for the spark. Due to needing 10 "sparks" to function, the spark was actually the most consistent trinket by far. The trinket has almost no chance of reaching 10 sparks in the first minute, and the high chance to proc at the start will only count for the first spark. This will be the weakest trinket out of the bunch by a fair margin.

Now, to the dirty details:
RPPM formula: RPPM * Haste * (Time since last chance to proc) / 60

MAX(1, 1+((TimeSinceLastSuccessfulProc/AverageProcInterval)-1.5)*3)

In order to get average proc interval, we solve for the RPPM formula... so, example:

0.616 * 1.15 * 10 / 60 = 11.8% chance to proc if you attack every 10 seconds.

Then we solve for x
0.118x = 10
to find the average proc interval, which is 84 seconds.

Plug that into the beast of a formula:

MAX(1, 1+ ((x/84)-1.5)*3)

All the MAX does is set the RPPM value of the trinket to "normal" (0.616) if the trinket has procced recently. This ensures that your RPPM isn't negative or something ridiculous.

Now, the formula doesn't actually start to kick in until x hits a certain value, we can solve for this by doing some !@#$ty algebra (AKA: Copy/paste into wolfram because it's too damn late.)

1 = 1 + ((x/84) - 1.5) * 3
(WOLFRAM MAGIC)
x = 126
(Basically, 1.5x time expected proc interval)

So until 126 seconds have passed from our last trinket proc, the trinket uses the old fashioned 0.616 for the RPPM value. However, once the seconds start ticking after 126, the proc chance starts to rise.

Example:
160 seconds since the last proc on a trinket that should proc every 84 seconds.

1 + ((160/84) - 1.5) * 3
= 2.214 multiplier.

Plug that 2.214 into the original RPPM formula:

2.214 * 0.616 * 1.15 * 10 / 60 = 26.13% chance to proc if you attack every 10 seconds, or 2.6% chance every 1 second. This effectively doubles the chance of the trinket proccing on each swing.

You might ask, how long till we have a guaranteed proc while in combat? Easy, Wolfram that %^-* again. Solve for x, plug that into the other monster formula...
x * 0.616 * 1.15 * 1 / 60 = 100%
x = 84~

84 = 1 + ((x/84) - 1.5) * 3
Drum roll please.

2,450 seconds, which is well beyond the 1000 second cap. This means that you could still get terrible RNG and maybe not even see another proc after the start. It's just very very VERY unlikely.

What about if we're on a corpse run back to the boss, what's the proc chance of our first attack?

1 + ((1000/84) - 1.5) * 3 = 32~ multiplier

32 * 0.616 * 1.15 * 10 / 60 = 377% chance to proc, aka, that trinket is GUARANTEED to proc on your first attack.

How long must we wait after a proc to guarantee a proc at the start of a boss fight?
x * 0.616 * 1.15 * 10 /60 = 1
x = 8.4~ multiplier

8.4 = 1 + ((x/84) - 1.5) * 3
x = 333 seconds, or 5.5 minutes.

I'm not a huge fan of this part, as it could lead to people saying "no no, wait for my trinket." at the start, but I doubt it'll be much of an issue because it probably takes 5.5 minutes to get back, feast up, talk about what went wrong and pull the boss again after you wipe.

TLDR FOR THOSE WHO HATE MATH AND READING
1. The new RPPM system will effectively guarantee that your RPPM trinket will proc every single time at the start of combat on a boss. This is huge for warriors due to our initial burst.

2. This system will NOT completely eliminate bad rng on trinket procs AFTER the start, you could still very well get screwed and wait very long times for your trinket to proc.

3. The changes will not take affect until 1.5*AverageProcInterval. So your trinket that procs every 90 seconds on average won't get any "RNG" assistance until 135 seconds have passed.

4. This buffs trinkets with lower RPPMs more than higher RPPMs. The guaranteed proc at the start is a huge part of it, as the trinkets with lower RPPMs tend to have very significant procs to make up for the lower uptime.

5. I haven't put the new trinkets to the test yet. I will soon, but I will not be surprised to see Feathers rise up the list quite a few spots, as these changes are highly beneficial to it.
Edited by Collision on 3/14/2013 1:46 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Warrior
8560
old info
Edited by Collision on 5/13/2013 1:55 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Orc Warrior
14555
This makes me sad. I just picked up a Thunderforged Primordius' last night.
Reply Quote
So the changes totally knocked the Brutal Talisman off the charts? (assuming we could use the expertise)

Good stuff as usual Collision, thanks for running those new trinkets so fast for us!!
Edited by Kegstànd on 3/14/2013 12:26 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Warrior
8560
So the changes totally knocked the Brutal Talisman off the charts? (assuming we could use the expertise)


Whoops, I forgot about that trinket. That trinket was unchanged, as was the 2/2 H Lei Shen's Orders, so it's going to be #8 as there was a fairly significant drop off after 2/2 H LS.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]