5.0.4 Performance Issue (Similar to D3 Beta)

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90 Human Warlock
5830
Unless you want to argue with court that any program that tries to use your computers max performance to performa function is found guilty of same. then you want to take just about 90% of software programs to court in process.


Well, it wouldn't be so cut-and-dried. Has there been a widespread case of commercial code pushed out to users resulting in physical damage to computers? I don't think there has, and courts are notoriously dumb about technological issues, especially when they arise for the first time.

But there's also this: THE BEST way to insulate yourself against liability like this would be to warn people in advance. If it came to court and if the case got to the point of proving liability, Blizzard would already have lost. The only game in town is to short-circuit it from the start--and the best way to do that would be to warn users of the potential harm. (And apologize, which they have done an adequate job at so far.)

(Note to Blizz GC: This is what sets mediocre lawyers apart from good ones. Mediocre ones try to avoid any possible hint of apology or fault. That results in a tougher slog through court, a harsher verdict, and a great deal of lost good will--usually because it involves telling your customers that up is down and black is white. Great lawyers know that you should take the hit early and control the story from the start. Don't get suckered.)

Seriously: one simple warning, followed by a promise that it is being looked into and will be resolved ASAP. That will prevent a huge number of potential problems, and will build up good will. That will more than compensate for the short-term hit.

09/05/2012 09:22 AMPosted by Tiapriestess
smcFanControl is an application. The only thing that occurs at startup is a script that points to that application and starts it up.


My mistake: it was Temperature Monitor, not smcFanControl. All's I know is that there was a folder in ~/Library/StartupItems with the name of TM's developer on it, and everything worked fine once I trashed it. It's a little off-topic though, and the trouble is gone anyway. :)

(Edited to fix quoting problem.)
90 Goblin Warlock
6435
So, I tested something new today on my rMBP.

Decided to install Parallels 8 and then Windows 7. I then installed WoW (PC version).

Running on Fair settings at 1920x1200, my GPU Diode temperature hit 167F within 60 seconds and was still climbing. I shut down WoW and it dropped back to 102F within 30 seconds.

So, even the PC version of the client is creating massive heat on the rMBP. I know this is a crap way to run WoW compared to the native client, but I know people running Skyrim and SWTOR via Parallels 7 on their rMBPs with high settings and no problems.

Something in how both clients run is creating some real heat problems with the Apple hardware. It might be impacting PC hardware as well, but not as significantly.
90 Goblin Warlock
6435
Has this been fixed yet or is there an ETA on a fix?

I've refrained from playing on my new MacBook Pro Retina due to this issue.


No fix yet, but its "in the works". I am running on a two week old rMBP myself and you are making the right decision. This application is a Mac killer.
09/05/2012 03:01 PMPosted by Temenon
Unless you want to argue with court that any program that tries to use your computers max performance to performa function is found guilty of same. then you want to take just about 90% of software programs to court in process.


Well, it wouldn't be so cut-and-dried. Has there been a widespread case of commercial code pushed out to users resulting in physical damage to computers? I don't think there has, and courts are notoriously dumb about technological issues, especially when they arise for the first time.

But there's also this: THE BEST way to insulate yourself against liability like this would be to warn people in advance. If it came to court and if the case got to the point of proving liability, Blizzard would already have lost. The only game in town is to short-circuit it from the start--and the best way to do that would be to warn users of the potential harm. (And apologize, which they have done an adequate job at so far.)

(Note to Blizz GC: This is what sets mediocre lawyers apart from good ones. Mediocre ones try to avoid any possible hint of apology or fault. That results in a tougher slog through court, a harsher verdict, and a great deal of lost good will--usually because it involves telling your customers that up is down and black is white. Great lawyers know that you should take the hit early and control the story from the start. Don't get suckered.)

Seriously: one simple warning, followed by a promise that it is being looked into and will be resolved ASAP. That will prevent a huge number of potential problems, and will build up good will. That will more than compensate for the short-term hit.

09/05/2012 09:22 AMPosted by Tiapriestess
smcFanControl is an application. The only thing that occurs at startup is a script that points to that application and starts it up.


My mistake: it was Temperature Monitor, not smcFanControl. All's I know is that there was a folder in ~/Library/StartupItems with the name of TM's developer on it, and everything worked fine once I trashed it. It's a little off-topic though, and the trouble is gone anyway. :)

(Edited to fix quoting problem.)


And that was honestly my point to it. EULA or not, the fact that they have put out no warning to the consumer base of the product puts them into the "neglect" category.

Case in point.... Toyota and the sticking accelerator pedals on the Prius.
90 Draenei Shaman
5935
09/05/2012 02:34 PMPosted by Jork
(assuming its even overheating and not just gross exagerations).


34 pages and 1 week later in the forum you still think we're exaggerating? lol
86 Night Elf Druid
9935
This whole situation is a joke. I made a technical support ticket to try and get some answers about this issue, here's what happened. http://i.imgur.com/78ieK.jpg Great job Rishgur, #1 support agent.

Has anyone raised this issue with a wow news site like mmochampion or wowhead? Maybe we could get them to put a news post on their respective front pages warning other mac about this issue.
90 Draenei Shaman
5935
This whole situation is a joke. I made a technical support ticket to try and get some answers about this issue, here's what happened. http://i.imgur.com/78ieK.jpg Great job Rishgur, #1 support agent.

Has anyone raised this issue with a wow news site like mmochampion or wowhead? Maybe we could get them to put a news post on their respective front pages warning other mac about this issue.


Very professional. At least my support agent sent me to this forum
85 Blood Elf Hunter
3050
Checked my computers activity today before I played and during.

Before, my CPU was 3% user, 50 degrees Celcius.

After having the 32-bit open for 5 minutes, CPU shot to 75%, CPU temp went to 90 Degrees celsius. Also my fan went from 2000 rpm to 6000 rpm.

Definitely not normal, and very scary. As far as I know the only problem with my Mac's software is a shortage of memory. Everything else is up to date and spec.

I dunno, I may just take this as fate telling me to stop wasting my life on this stupid game....
and also save 17 bucks a month. I will probably give it a week or two to get fixed, and if Blizz doesn't seem to care about fixing my problem by then I dont care about taking my money and telling my friends to not play either.
45 Draenei Hunter
1430
Same issue here regarding CPU temperature..

Bought a 15" MacBook Pro this weekend - the $2200 model (2.6 Ghz i7, 8GB memory, NVIDEA GeForce GT 650M...).

Basically playing WoW sends my temp soaring up to about 105 degrees C; am thinking it will be higher still if I am raiding or such - this was just based on "hang out in Stormwind" time.

I sent a copy of my system information with a ticket into Blizz support for you guys to take a look at, as well as a screenshot of my CPU temps / fan speeds while flying around in Stormwind.

Also spoke to Apple Support and they have no clue what the problem is. They said WoW should be compatible and if it fries my machine my warranty will cover it (thank the gods!). That said, I like my mPro and don't want to watch her melt =(

Thanks for taking a look guys!
Edited by Rehya on 9/5/2012 4:48 PM PDT
90 Draenei Shaman
5935
I dunno, I may just take this as fate telling me to stop wasting my life on this stupid game....
and also save 17 bucks a month. I will probably give it a week or two to get fixed, and if Blizz doesn't seem to care about fixing my problem by then I dont care about taking my money and telling my friends to not play either.


Haha that's exactly what I was thinking... this bug is a sign telling us to stop wasting time and money. I'm glad I didn't pre-order MoP :)
85 Blood Elf Hunter
3050
I might even forgive Blizz for this momentary lapse if they gave me a discount on buying DiabloIII....
09/05/2012 03:50 PMPosted by Timbers
This whole situation is a joke. I made a technical support ticket to try and get some answers about this issue, here's what happened. http://i.imgur.com/78ieK.jpg Great job Rishgur, #1 support agent.

Funny, I got the exact same response twice. They clearly didn't bother to read the ticket. I even linked to this thread (a solution had not been found at the time). Terrible customer support.

Has anyone raised this issue with a wow news site like mmochampion or wowhead? Maybe we could get them to put a news post on their respective front pages warning other mac about this issue.

Wow Insider posted about it, which stirred plenty of argument earlier in this thread. Get some popcorn and go back an read it (it's safer entertainment than WoW cooking the innards of your machine).
90 Troll Druid
11355
A quick update on the automator based workaround I published a few days ago - I've added in dynamic detection of the offending thread, improved reliability on slower macs by waiting longer to ensure that thread's work is done before suspending it, and updated the command line paths to longer require you to customize them to your user directory.

I created a separate thread for discussion of the automator workaround at http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6490399674

and you can get the package from
https://github.com/spanditcaa/wow-504-mac-CPU-workaround
MVP - Technical Support
90 Human Warrior
18100
09/05/2012 02:34 PMPosted by Jork
i would think with a thread 34 pages long and 676 posts, there would be something to all this, not simply gross exaggerations. some amazing, intelligent, and extremely helpful players have taken a lot of personal time to figure out what has been causing the issues with out of control processes causing our cpu to crank out around 4 times harder than it should or has pre 5.0.4. i would think that everyone in this forum has a mac and knows the pains that can sometimes come with it, we all understand that these machines are lacking in the cooling department.
those pages all prove one thing, that there is an issue causing frivolous cpu and gpu usage, and as a result, some machines are running hot because they are under more load then normal. No one is arguing the cpu/gpu bug though. not even blizzard. all i'm merely stating is, if computers are running hotter as a result, that's not harming anything IF the computer is working correctly. If computers ARE overheating, then it's because the COMPUTER is not working correctly. it has nothing to do with the game, other then the game helped you identify something is wrong with your mac. There is NO REASON an application using max load should cause damage to a computer or overheat. If that happens it's by some failure in the hardware and not the software, period. I'm telling you now, i have MANY applications that use max cpu and gpu. i've run them on my macbook pro too, not just mac pro that has exceptional cooling. My mac pro is of sound health still. Why? because it's working correctly. If i do some intensive video conversion on it (and trust me, it's pushing the cpu just as hard if not harder then wow 5.0.4 is), it will truck through it just fine without over heating. But i also use appropriate surfaces, keep the outside and inside clean of dust or hair or anything else that would hinder cooling, and take good care of it all around. It's also an earlier generation macbook pro that had better case design and less crap shoved together that hintered cooling that some of later models do. At no time in any of my statements am i trying to take liability off blizzard for making a terrible patch. 5.0.4 is very bad and buggy. I merely state and reitterate, that they aren't liable for some of the ridiculous claims they are getting blamed for like computers spontaniously combusting or melting down or anything like that. If those things did happen to anyone, it's unfortunate, but wow simply helped you identify a DIFFERENT problem that you just weren't unfortunate enough to find until now (maybe you don't run many high demand applications, or use a lot of long duration flash media, or anything else that'd use just as much cpu or gpu as this broken wow patch did).

09/05/2012 02:34 PMPosted by Jork
THIS. this is "all" we want. acknowledgement that they are fixing a game that is subpar in performance, unstable, and not up to the quality it should be.

they already have done that, therefor there is nothing more to say until the fix is ready. I'm not sure they really need to issue a breaking news warning that says "our game is gonna run crappy until next patch" is really much of a warning. and what else is there to warn for? heat? again, that just falls under what's stated above, not blizzards fault or problem. At most blizzard will do is give you apple's phone number.

A quick update on the automator based workaround I published a few days ago - I've added in dynamic detection of the offending thread, improved reliability on slower macs by waiting longer to ensure that thread's work is done before suspending it, and updated the command line paths to longer require you to customize them to your user directory.

I created a separate thread for discussion of the automator workaround at http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6490399674

and you can get the package from
https://github.com/spanditcaa/wow-504-mac-CPU-workaround

your work is greatly appreicated. I also like that you search for correct thread now. very nicely done. :)
Edited by Omegal on 9/5/2012 5:21 PM PDT
90 Goblin Shaman
5880
It's pretty sad that one week after this major patch most Mac users are avoiding to even launch the game in fear of their computers dying. At the very least Blizz should update the subscription time, for all of those Mac players that are being affected, to reflect the time lost (a week and counting) while they fix the problem. I believe the majority of the users here have been loyal to the game since its inception and to be ignored and neglected leaves a lot to say. Please address this issue soon, Blizz.

Oh yeah, count me in to the overheating problem in the log-in screen.
90 Troll Druid
11355
I also like that you search for correct thread now.


In my testing on multiple macs now, it looks like the offending thread always ends up being thread 7 if you wait long enough. I've seen it at thread 8 and thread 9 on a slower mac within the first 30 seconds after launch but then one of the lower threads completes and our offender drops down to 7.

With that, now I'm waiting 45 seconds before suspending and I am still identifying the thread dynamically. You also don't have to sit at the login screen and wait for this to complete, you can go ahead and log in, and you'll just hear your fans spin down after 45-50 seconds.
90 Gnome Warrior
0
Omegal, just... go away, okay?

No, the 'overheating problem' is NOT ANYTHING TO DO WITH PEOPLE'S MACHINES, AND HAS NOT BEEN ANYTHING TO DO WITH PEOPLE'S MACHINES SINCE THE VERY DAY IT WAS REPORTED IN THE BETA.

As has been stated over, and over, and over again in this thread, the "overheating problem" is a -symptom- of the buggy runaway thread that Growltiger, Tia, and others have pinned down. It is a SYMPTOM OF FAULTY CODE. What you're going on about is basically saying 'oh you have a fever? Well, obviously it's your fault because you're wearing too many clothes. That virus you have, other people don't have nearly as bad a fever as you, so obviously it's all your fault.'

It has very little to do with Apple's design aesthetic save -perhaps- to aggravate an already extant problem by a few degrees. This very same runaway thread (with all of its overheating issues) has also been reported on Windows machines, so therefore I guess Dell and HP have sh*tty design too, is what you're saying?

For the fifty thousandth time, Omegal. The overheating is very real, and is a direct result of the code bug. It is occurring irrelevant of platform, OS, or anything else you would apparently like to blame on a) Apple or b) the poor afflicted users.

Just stop it. No one here wants to hear you tootling the same old tune, and you're not contributing anything whatsoever to this thread.
Edited by Arenvald on 9/5/2012 5:45 PM PDT
- Technical Support
90 Human Priest
6220
Oy Omegal....for the love of all that's holy, please fix your enter key. :P
2 Gnome Warlock
0
09/05/2012 05:40 PMPosted by Arenvald
Omegal, just... go away, okay?


Agreed. His overtly antagonistic posts are just adding fuel to the fire. Someone from Blizz needs to politely tell him to cool his jets.

Most of what he's saying barely makes sense anyway.
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