5.0.4 Performance Issue (Similar to D3 Beta)

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MVP - Technical Support
90 Human Warrior
18590
09/05/2012 05:40 PMPosted by Arenvald
Dell and HP have sh*tty design too, is what you're saying

yes.

i actually know of very few who'd buy either of those brands for good reasons. But if you don't believe me, do some googling, it won't take you long to find out overheating issues are most certainly a commonology in macbook pro designs, and yes even those other systems you mention. and yes, an a bug like one in wow helps trigger that bug, it's still not the underlining cause of the overheat. the only thing it's cause for is just being lousy code that makes the game run badly and far more demanding then it should be. but i'll leave at that.

I've said what i wanted to say. If you want to blame blizzard for it, and not actually fix anything, that's really your loss in not taking advantage of tools that have been successful, against APPLE in getting replacement hardware or repairs for these kinds of issues. Although you'd have to actually be overheating and damaging something for that. If you're just running hot and are upset over some fan noise under heavy load, apple will even tell you it's working as intended and send you home.

09/05/2012 05:40 PMPosted by Arenvald
Just stop it. No one here wants to hear you tootling the same old tune, and you're not contributing anything whatsoever to this thread.

I'm sorry you feel that way. Hopefully for your sake, you see the light before you actually do damage computer and bark up wrong tree to get it fixed and end up very disapointed in the end.

I only want to see users get the right information so they can get the right help from the right people. I never look to cause diagreements, but i will correct users that are wrong so that other users who do come here for right information can get that information. Many users in this thread report results but very few understand basic hardware and software interaction and design. They only go by what they know: 4.x, cool and smooth, 5.x, hot and laggy. But they don't always know the difference between the divide of software's responsbilities and hardwares responsiblities. The limitations of software and what it's responsible for, and what the hardware, kernel, drivers, are all supposed to do.
You see it a lot, not just with overheating but when wow causes x kernel panic, etc. Actually, software itself cannot cause a kernel panic unless it's kernel level software like a kext, if wow triggers a kernel panic, it does it by proxy, (ie triggering a bug in OS that actually causes the panic, like a video driver). that is just another such example though where blizz, or other companies, catch a lot of flack when something is broken, that is NOT there fault, but is discovered because of their software.

09/05/2012 05:44 PMPosted by Tiapriestess
Oy Omegal....for the love of all that's holy, please fix your enter key. :P
but then it'd take away from your fun disecting it.
Edited by Omegal on 9/5/2012 6:03 PM PDT
90 Gnome Warrior
0
You're not even listening to what I'm saying, Omegal. You just repeat the same thing over and over and over, and what I'm trying to say here is:

-----> IT IS INCORRECT <----

There. I blocked it out for you super clearly. You. Are. Wrong. Here.

Yes, most players are not savvy enough to figure out what's causing their box to fry, but there are people in this thread that do, and they have explained it. It is not the box. For the millionth time, it is not the box. In this particular case; the one that is in this particular crossplatform situation which is running people's CPUs so hard they disintegrate, the heat problem is PURELY A SIDE EFFECT OF BUGGY CODE.

Sometimes, other things make macs overheat. I will freely admit this. It happens all the time, and can, if addressed properly, be seen to by users. However, at this time, in this place, in this situation, THAT IS NOT THE PROBLEM.

This is not something users can fix. It is something that Blizzard has to fix (and is in theory currently in the process of). Nothing, no matter what you do, however good at code or box hacking or I don't care what, will make your CPU NOT overclock if you suffer from this bug. All you can do is fudge the code to temporarily stall the rogue thread. Which isn't a fix, it's a cheap bandaid. (although I'm glad Growl found it.)

Now please, I'm asking nicely. Go away and stop making people angry by blaming them for a problem that is, I reiterate yet again, not their fault, or their computer manufacturer's fault.
Edited by Arenvald on 9/5/2012 6:10 PM PDT
90 Human Warlock
13750
09/05/2012 05:40 PMPosted by Arenvald
Omegal, just... go away, okay?


Yes, go away.
Omegal, just... go away, okay?


Yes, go away.


Hear, hear. Your "contributions" have not increased the signal-to-noise ratio - that's the most polite way I can put it.
Edited by Htaed on 9/5/2012 6:26 PM PDT
85 Dwarf Rogue
4145
104% at login screen for me, too.

2012 Macbook Air, 13", 256GB SSD, 8GB RAM, i7
43 Human Paladin
0
Omegal, just... go away, okay?

No, the 'overheating problem' is NOT ANYTHING TO DO WITH PEOPLE'S MACHINES, AND HAS NOT BEEN ANYTHING TO DO WITH PEOPLE'S MACHINES SINCE THE VERY DAY IT WAS REPORTED IN THE BETA.

As has been stated over, and over, and over again in this thread, the "overheating problem" is a -symptom- of the buggy runaway thread that Growltiger, Tia, and others have pinned down. It is a SYMPTOM OF FAULTY CODE. What you're going on about is basically saying 'oh you have a fever? Well, obviously it's your fault because you're wearing too many clothes. That virus you have, other people don't have nearly as bad a fever as you, so obviously it's all your fault.'

It has very little to do with Apple's design aesthetic save -perhaps- to aggravate an already extant problem by a few degrees. This very same runaway thread (with all of its overheating issues) has also been reported on Windows machines, so therefore I guess Dell and HP have sh*tty design too, is what you're saying?

For the fifty thousandth time, Omegal. The overheating is very real, and is a direct result of the code bug. It is occurring irrelevant of platform, OS, or anything else you would apparently like to blame on a) Apple or b) the poor afflicted users.

Just stop it. No one here wants to hear you tootling the same old tune, and you're not contributing anything whatsoever to this thread.
You need to chill. He's already acknowledged that THE BUG IS REAL. YES OMEGAL HAS SAID THIS BUG IS REAL. He isn't disputing that. And he's saying that there are many things put together that will use Max CPU load. People push thier cpu's all the time doing things. He isn't saying that 1 program should max their cpu. He's saying that people do do many things at one time that end up using 100%+ CPU. And no. It should not cause damage. So having 1 program use 100% of your CPU, while not good isn't going to cause your comp to get to damaging temperatures. He's acknowledging the typical "Blizzard better buy me a new comp if something happens to my comp!" remarks.

So before you go off on someone, read what they're saying. Again. HE IS NOT SAYING THE BUG IS NOT REAL. OMEGAL IS SAYING IT IS REAL.
90 Gnome Warrior
0
I never said he was claiming it wasn't real.

He's just pooh-pooing all the symptoms users are reporting, and blaming them for a nonexistent failure of their hardware.

From what I've gotten from him, his attitude is 'Oh sure, there's this teeny weeny little bug and if you had a REAL machine it wouldn't bother you at all! Too bad, so sad, go back to playing Angry Birds and leave the real gaming to people with the leetness to have real hardware.'

Which is paraphrasing, but that's the vibe I've been getting this whole time.
I never said he was claiming it wasn't real.

He's just pooh-pooing all the symptoms users are reporting, and blaming them for a nonexistent failure of their hardware.

From what I've gotten from him, his attitude is 'Oh sure, there's this teeny weeny little bug and if you had a REAL machine it wouldn't bother you at all! Too bad, so sad, go back to playing Angry Birds and leave the real gaming to people with the leetness to have real hardware.'

Which is paraphrasing, but that's the vibe I've been getting this whole time.


He also seems to think that consumer-level hardware is designed to run full-tilt all the time (it's not - that's one of many reasons enterprise servers cost what they do, because they're designed for such operation), and he seems to think that running Photoshop and similar - programs that don't touch the GPU, and only run the CPU full tilt in small bursts - are the same as running both the GPU and CPU full-on for hours, which is what WoW has been doing since patch 5.0.4. Oh, and being extremely trollish in the way he goes about it - it might be his writing style, but it's not helpful.

As I put it before, it adds noise to the discussion, not signal.
90 Troll Mage
12685
Make sure you remove all temporary files.

Reset the temp files
    1. Navigate to /Applications/World of Warcraft/
    2. Delete the Cache folder.
    3. Move Interface and WTF to the Desktop.
    4. Launch WoW.


Also, I'll check into the CPU usage, but that seems normal, as I touched base with our team about D3 running at 100+% before.


Did all that.... ran with almost no add ons (just dbm and bartender)

It was a nightmare. lag spikes from hell.

I have a 3.4 ghz IntelCore i7 with 8 GB RAM
Graphics AMD Radeon HD 6970M 2048 MB
Software Mac OS X Lion 10.7.4
90 Gnome Warrior
0
Cacheclearing won't help, Kirana. All you can do is wait until Bliz fixes it, or find a way to run your fans high enough to keep your temps low(ish).
90 Gnome Mage
3440
This whole situation is a joke. I made a technical support ticket to try and get some answers about this issue, here's what happened. http://i.imgur.com/78ieK.jpg Great job Rishgur, #1 support agent.

Has anyone raised this issue with a wow news site like mmochampion or wowhead? Maybe we could get them to put a news post on their respective front pages warning other mac about this issue.


Wow, you got the same support agent I did and the SAME canned response. At least you got it twice, I still haven't gotten a reply back!
86 Night Elf Druid
9935
This whole situation is a joke. I made a technical support ticket to try and get some answers about this issue, here's what happened. http://i.imgur.com/78ieK.jpg Great job Rishgur, #1 support agent.

Has anyone raised this issue with a wow news site like mmochampion or wowhead? Maybe we could get them to put a news post on their respective front pages warning other mac about this issue.


Wow, you got the same support agent I did and the SAME canned response. At least you got it twice, I still haven't gotten a reply back!


I'm still waiting for a response to my response, I have a feeling I won't hear back haha

Just a reminder for people who won't/can't log in, and want to check and/or post auctions. You can do this from the battle.net interface through your web browser via:

https://us.battle.net/wow/en/vault/character/auction/alliance/auctions

Just make sure the character you want to post auctions on is the one you have selected at the top right above.

If the EULA didn't change I would just log in to post and then log out before things get too hot, but I'm not agreeing to any new or revised terms until I know the issue is resolved and my computer isn't going to get wrecked.
90 Worgen Druid
12295
I mostly agree with Omegal that a computer should not self-destruct just because you try to use all of the processing power available. The hardware should either be able to handle that full load without overheating (including increasing cooling through fans or other means), or be designed to throttle the CPU back (through hardware or OS control, including shutting down cores or limiting CPU available to processes).

Although I'm pretty sure that most or all Mac clients are running hot, I'm also positive that not all of them are going to be damaged. My iMac CPU fan start to run faster (about 1300-1400, up from no-load 940) once the CPU hits 60C, and I've seen it get up to 64. If I run all the fans full tilt, the temperature gets down below 60 even if I leave the errant thread running and leave FPS uncapped, whether I have Ultra graphics (makes the GPU run hot) or Low graphics (makes the CPU run hot as well). I can push uncapped FPS down to 15-20FPS or up to 120FPS depending on graphics options and resolution (2560x1440 runs a lot fewer FPS than 1280x720), which variously stresses different parts of the pipeline.

Laptops are going to be hit the worst by this, and I bet if the same bug was in the Windows client you'd be seeing a lot more people with problems (and not just because there are more people with Windows laptops). However, I'm sure there are plenty of Mac users who are simply running hotter than usual, and hotter than necessary, perhaps wondering why their fans are making more noise and just chalking it up to higher demands from the MoP graphics engine.

HOWEVER, I do think Blizzard should have been more active in warning Mac users about this particular issue as SOON as it was verified, even if the underlying problem might be with the hardware not properly compensating for the unusually high load that the bug causes.

I'm glad I was able to provide a temporary workaround for some people, but it's no substitute for a timely patch and a timely warning. I don't feel the patch is taking too long quite yet, but if it isn't fixed by this next Tuesday, I'll be very disappointed.
Edited by Growltiger on 9/5/2012 9:50 PM PDT
90 Gnome Mage
3440


Wow, you got the same support agent I did and the SAME canned response. At least you got it twice, I still haven't gotten a reply back!


I'm still waiting for a response to my response, I have a feeling I won't hear back haha

Just a reminder for people who won't/can't log in, and want to check and/or post auctions. You can do this from the battle.net interface through your web browser via:

https://us.battle.net/wow/en/vault/character/auction/alliance/auctions

Just make sure the character you want to post auctions on is the one you have selected at the top right above.

If the EULA didn't change I would just log in to post and then log out before things get too hot, but I'm not agreeing to any new or revised terms until I know the issue is resolved and my computer isn't going to get wrecked.


Oh look, I got a second response from a different Customer Service person. Exact same canned answer again. Such worthless Customer Service. It must be nice to be paid to just click drop downs based on keywords (if it is even that much work) and not actually read the ticket.

So disappointed in Blizzard.
86 Night Elf Druid
9935


Wow, you got the same support agent I did and the SAME canned response. At least you got it twice, I still haven't gotten a reply back!


I'm still waiting for a response to my response, I have a feeling I won't hear back haha



I got a response. http://i.imgur.com/dcmLR.jpg I'm glad my $15 a month is paying for this world class tech support.

Ctrl + C
Ctrl + V
????
Check Answered
90 Dwarf Paladin
7665
I never said he was claiming it wasn't real.

He's just pooh-pooing all the symptoms users are reporting, and blaming them for a nonexistent failure of their hardware.

It is entirely possible to design a consumer system that will not melt and kill it self or have to shutdown or even throttle itself because the cpu and / or gpu are maxed out. It's also known that both PC manufacturers and Apple (their laptop line) don't always build systems that can adequately cool themselves.

Apple seemingly hinders the cooling system for aesthetic reasons. That is they seemingly feel that large heatsinks / large fans and / or high rpm (i.e. LOUD) fans in their notebooks would detract from this.

It's far from a nonexistant failure -- its a purposefully hindered cooling system. I don't think Omegal is saying run your mac carefree, Apple is completely liable, but perhaps he is saying that where your mac to be damaged as a result of this runaway process from WoW you'd probably have a good argument to hold Apple liable.

Regardless, Blizzard has acknowledged the problem and will issue a patch. The automator tool provided by Sunxai will help too.
86 Night Elf Druid
9935


I'm still waiting for a response to my response, I have a feeling I won't hear back haha

Just a reminder for people who won't/can't log in, and want to check and/or post auctions. You can do this from the battle.net interface through your web browser via:

https://us.battle.net/wow/en/vault/character/auction/alliance/auctions

Just make sure the character you want to post auctions on is the one you have selected at the top right above.

If the EULA didn't change I would just log in to post and then log out before things get too hot, but I'm not agreeing to any new or revised terms until I know the issue is resolved and my computer isn't going to get wrecked.


Oh look, I got a second response from a different Customer Service person. Exact same canned answer again. Such worthless Customer Service. It must be nice to be paid to just click drop downs based on keywords (if it is even that much work) and not actually read the ticket.

So disappointed in Blizzard.


I didn't see your post before I posted above. I agree 100%.
87 Blood Elf Paladin
5685
First of all, Omegal, you are a huge waste of space in this conversation and the most ill-informed fanboy I've ever seen.

Second, 2 day old MBP 2.3 I7 8GB GT650M. This Mac crushes the PC I've been playing WoW on for the last 4 years in every stat (Sager NP5793, not some crap Dell or Gateway Omegal). Getting all the same symptoms (104% CPU on login screen, poor performance, and absurdly high temps). This is my work computer so I don't really care if I melt it, but the fact is the game is not playable right now. I re-upped for this patch so I'm pissed I can't play ATM. Blizzards reputation of not releasing "until it's ready" is ancient history at this point. Between D3 and 5.0.4 it's clear that Blizzard release dates are purely strategic and have nothing to do with quality anymore.
90 Gnome Mage
3440


I'm still waiting for a response to my response, I have a feeling I won't hear back haha



I got a response. http://i.imgur.com/dcmLR.jpg I'm glad my $15 a month is paying for this world class tech support.

Ctrl + C
Ctrl + V
????
Check Answered


Hah, that's the same CSR that replied, errr pasted the same response for the 2nd time into my ticket as well. Top notch support!
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