Thoughts on the patch

85 Orc Warrior
10130
08/30/2012 09:45 PMPosted by Joynal
Like running around in GS last night as orcas was doing anything to improve our characters?

That kind of thing is fun, yeah, but character progression is too.

If you NEED that gear to start raiding, then perhaps they should retune the raids. VP gear is NOT for catching up. That's what JP is for.
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90 Gnome Priest
17395
JP is only 450, compared to 476 tuning for MSV normal modes. How on earth is JP going to help you?

Blizzard is not doing things as they did for Cata. People need to get over the "its heroic dungeon level".
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85 Orc Warrior
10130
What I mean is perhaps normal modes need to be tuned for 450 if you're saying that your friends will not be able to raid whatsoever at all without a minimum 476 item level.
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90 Human Warlock
11255
More on topic, I've decided the new demo spec is the greatest thing this game has given me short of transmog.

That is all.
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100 Tauren Shaman
10290
Regardless, you still don't HAVE to do ALL the dailies every day.

If you WANT to gear up as fast as possible because you WANT to raid as soon as possible, then you will probably do the dailies every day. But no one is forcing you. It's not a requirement that you do every single daily quest every single day in order to raid... it will just take you a little longer to get there if you do them at a more casual pace. Not everyone is interested in raiding as soon as humanly possible... some people won't mind waiting a couple extra weeks to get started.

Having said that, I agree that this system is a little wonky... I feel like anything that isn't purely novelty that comes from the highest rep possible or two months of dailies is just annoying. Not everyone has time for that, and I think random heroics was a lot faster and easier for people who don't have the same kind of time to commit, or only play once a week or something.

I don't really have the time for raiding, anyway, so it's a total non-issue for me. I mean, look at my gear. I don't think I can even get into all the cata heroics.
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90 Gnome Priest
17395
Regardless, you still don't HAVE to do ALL the dailies every day.

If you WANT to gear up as fast as possible because you WANT to raid as soon as possible, then you will probably do the dailies every day. But no one is forcing you. It's not a requirement that you do every single daily quest every single day in order to raid... it will just take you a little longer to get there if you do them at a more casual pace. Not everyone is interested in raiding as soon as humanly possible... some people won't mind waiting a couple extra weeks to get started.


Sorry, Yellow. I really disagree with you here but you don't raid for progression so you don't understand.

When you raid and you're part of a team with 9 or 24 other people, what you do affects the rest.

When you need the best gear possible for the team to progress, you MUST get that gear as fast as possible. You don't have the luxury of taking the time.

Most players do mind that couple of extra weeks to get started. Some are polite enough not to say anything and they will be patient since they'll know the situation is not one you control but they do mind. You are holding them back.

There are groups that aren't patient and suddenly you find you're left out. They went and got another player who could play every day so they got the gear.

You won't be able to get a spot with another progression group because guess what? You don't have the gear.


Having said that, I agree that this system is a little wonky... I feel like anything that isn't purely novelty that comes from the highest rep possible or two months of dailies is just annoying. Not everyone has time for that, and I think random heroics was a lot faster and easier for people who don't have the same kind of time to commit, or only play once a week or something.

I don't really have the time for raiding, anyway, so it's a total non-issue for me. I mean, look at my gear. I don't think I can even get into all the cata heroics.

Hope you'll understand why this reminds me of Valararia's argument in the VoN thread that the new personal loot system should be mandatory in all raid groups and then said "but I don't even raid so it doesn't affect me".

<3<3 Yellow <3<3

As for the highest rep possible being for only novelty items, it is. You only need Revered to buy the VP gear but rep gains are a lot lower than in Cata. That's why it can take 4 months to get to Revered with two of the factions if you're only playing a couple of days a week.

If you want the pure novelty items - the mounts and tabards plus a couple of other things - you'll need to double that time to get to exalted.
Edited by Joynal on 8/31/2012 10:54 AM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
12600
Got bored reading so much... so i skipped down and give ya my thought Pros: Mounts, titles, achievements Yay no more grinding for the stuff i want and FREE MECHANO HOGS nothing can go wrong with free Mechano hogs. Classes seem funner to play, Rogues finally got nerfed in the rear like they should of have been for awhile now, Warrior seems more intresting to play, glyphs are pretty amazing. Cons: Cross Realm zones (thought being changed when i keep meeting more and more nice people) Holydins are to op now, Priests seem invincible and they were a pain before the patch, guards are at lvl 90 and players get can get cataclysmic gear without doing arena's. Probably the most con thing is the mount drops been reduced since mounts are account bound.... all i gotta say to that is.... Never gonna give you up never gonna let you down. and i have other cons and pros but had a brain fart when i was typing faster then i could think. Netural: some guild perks changed
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66 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
08/31/2012 10:53 AMPosted by Joynal
When you need the best gear possible for the team to progress, you MUST get that gear as fast as possible.


08/31/2012 09:40 AMPosted by Yellowflower
If you WANT to gear up as fast as possible because you WANT to raid as soon as possible, then you will probably do the dailies every day.


08/31/2012 10:53 AMPosted by Joynal
There are groups that aren't patient and suddenly you find you're left out. They went and got another player who could play every day so they got the gear.


08/31/2012 09:40 AMPosted by Yellowflower
Not everyone is interested in raiding as soon as humanly possible... some people won't mind waiting a couple extra weeks to get started.


08/31/2012 10:53 AMPosted by Joynal
it can take 4 months to get to Revered with two of the factions if you're only playing a couple of days a week.


08/31/2012 09:40 AMPosted by Yellowflower
I agree that this system is a little wonky


With a system like this there will probable be several waves of raid spot availability as those with varying degrees of time/desire to raid obtain the gear. It probably depends more on how active the server ends up being with this expansion than anything else.
Edited by Grimms on 8/31/2012 12:32 PM PDT
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85 Orc Warrior
10130
08/31/2012 12:45 PMPosted by Thelanora
I am sure their ultimate goal is to have people run in their mouse wheels a little longer before getting bored of content.

That is precisely what their goal is. It's to address the complaint that players in cataclysm feel like "well as soon as i finish my raid, i have nothing left to do for the week" which, in my opinion, is a blaring and obscene problem with this game.

Maybe dailies aren't the answer, but there needs to be something else.
Edited by Kerrath on 8/31/2012 1:00 PM PDT
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90 Gnome Priest
17395
08/31/2012 01:00 PMPosted by Kerrath
Maybe dailies aren't the answer, but there needs to be something else.

Which is why I'm raising such a fuss on this issue.

Dailies aren't the answer. We've had them since BC. If they were the answer, people wouldn't be looking for more content.

There does need to be something though. I think the problem is getting players to communicate exactly what sort of content it is that they want.

Sometimes I feel like WoW is a toy chest and players are the children. The toy chest is filled with lots of toys and yet the children still scream they have nothing to do, they need more toys.

We are getting new forms of content and not just new content that replaces the old level cap content.

Pet battles

Scenarios

Challenge modes

And personally I love the Tillers, even if they're mostly a form of dailies. Over the past few weeks, most days I only log on beta to do the Tillers then I switch over to live. It's a small block of time that's filled in a fun and useful way since I can use it to provide things needed by just about any of my toons.

But are those things that players would use to fill their time, or will they just play with them once or twice, toss them back in the toy chest and cry for more?
Edited by Joynal on 8/31/2012 2:47 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
15560
Ehh. Demonology and Affliction do really good dps, all specs seem like they'll at least be able to be used for certain arena situations and BGs and such, but I personally don't really find them fun. I really figured they'd polish up the horrible, clunky rotation of demonology and destruction's mana regen isn't good enough to never go OOM in a long fight, leading to it being a little below the others.
I fully realize this may be a case of "I FEAR CHANGE" but I've never quite not been feeling warlocks as I do now.

My paladin is a blast now, protection seems cool and retribution is way more fun than it used to be, they just have a lot of cool new tricks overall. I haven't given holy a try yet but they seem pretty ridiculous right now.
Warriors are great damage but didn't really draw me that much, same for hunters minus the "great damage" part.
Death knights don't really feel all that different, although I love having a geist.
Rogue PvE seems more fun now but that's probably just because Assassination got a lot of cool new stuff, I know a lot of rogues who aren't happy about the changes.
The new shadow priest is a blast. It seems a little flavor of the monthey right now but I'm still enjoying mine.

I'm finally giving mages another try while waiting for release for god knows what reason. I feel like a traitor.
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90 Human Warlock
11255
08/31/2012 01:27 PMPosted by Thelanora
All of this would totally be a better, funner solution imho


I can't really argue with that. I don't like daily's. Doing the same 10 quests day in and day out wears on me very very fast. I'm certain that unless these are the most amazing daily quests ever, that I wont even make it a week.

Regardless, my first month in MoP will be all about leveling my characters. All of them. After that I'll sort out if/when I want to raid and such.

Ehh. Demonology and Affliction do really good dps, all specs seem like they'll at least be able to be used for certain arena situations and BGs and such, but I personally don't really find them fun. I really figured they'd polish up the horrible, clunky rotation of demonology and destruction's mana regen isn't good enough to never go OOM in a long fight, leading to it being a little below the others.
I fully realize this may be a case of "I FEAR CHANGE" but I've never quite not been feeling warlocks as I do now.


I will agree that affliction feels far more clunky now than it did before and I don't like it. But demo is so much simpler than it was. Only one dot. Fairly fast paced and little to no demon switching. Plus warlock tanking is freaking amazing.

08/31/2012 03:11 PMPosted by Aakarshan
My paladin is a blast now, protection seems cool and retribution is way more fun than it used to be,


Ret is virtually the same. Slower, but I took the talent that gives my procs back so now it's fun again.
Edited by Lèah on 8/31/2012 4:31 PM PDT
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85 Orc Warrior
10130

Maybe dailies aren't the answer, but there needs to be something else.


It used to be that content would last longer because they would release more than one raid per tier, even after the first one. The raids were longer, the gearcheck was steeper along with the skillcheck. on top of that, they had attunements. All of this would totally be a better, funner solution imho.

ya, but you can't do that, because even the goobers "deserve" to kill the final boss.

HI THERE, I WORK 3 JOBS AND HAVE 7 CHILDREN SPREAD ACROSS TWO WIVES, NEITHER OF WHOM KNOW EACH OTHER. I CAN REALLY ONLY AFFORD TO PLAY WOW DURING BATHROOM BREAKS WHEN NO ONE IS LOOKING BECAUSE LEADING TWO LIVES GIVES ME VERY LITTLE "ME" TIME. I JUST WANT TO THANK BLIZZARD FOR LETTING ME KILL DEATHWING, BECAUSE I PAY 15 BUCKS A MONTH TOO.
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100 Draenei Priest
7035
I think this topic has gone off course..............
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90 Gnome Priest
17395
08/31/2012 05:22 PMPosted by Niabella
I think this topic has gone off course..............

this surprises you?
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90 Gnome Priest
17395
Blizzard isn't delaying content to let the "goobers" play catch up.

Blizzard is delaying content because they don't have any to give you.

I don't have an issue with skill checks. You don't have to play 20 hours a week to be skilled.

I do have an issue with gear checks when the path to obtaining gear is hideously slow and filled with crappy RNG. That's just for the sake of Blizzard not having to come up with new content for the players who blow through everything in 6 weeks.

I would be very happy if Blizzard would add in item scaling for raids like they're doing for Challenge modes but with the option to enable it.

If it's a current content tier, gear would increase to ilvl to the level the encounter is tuned for. If your current item level is over that number, it wouldn't be adjusted. A lack of gear won't hold you back. The only things between you and dead boss is your skill.

If it's an old content tier, then item levels could be adjusted down to what it was originally tuned for. You no longer overgear the content, making your skill meaningful again. You could do Herald of the Titans type achievements as long as you're still the correct character level - but without all the annoying gear farming.

Loot would still drop as always, with current tier gear making your progression for the current tier easier just as it currently does. You'll still want to get that shiny axe because it will make it easier to kill big bad !@# boss once you get to him.
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85 Orc Warrior
10130
08/31/2012 06:06 PMPosted by Thelanora
that's what LFR is for. screw them

if that was the case, nerfs never would have gone live. the fact of the matter is that if you aren't a goober blizzard only mildly cares about you and they prove it by making it so that the content is only hard for 1-2 months.

idk, i like gw2's system. there is no gear grind. hardcore gear and casual gear have the same stats. since you don't have to farm gear to be powerful, casuals don't get left behind. but here's the thing: hardcore gear looks really !@#$ing badass.
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