Why the removal of Charge from Guardian?

90 Night Elf Druid
13785
08/31/2012 01:21 AMPosted by Loveshðck
As a BC, Wrath or Cata bear, you could have completely ignored it and have competed just fine - minus mobility.


Which is often the first point I stripped out of my Bear build to go more hybrid, especially in Wrath.

I could do the entirety of ICC without Feral Charge. Seriously it wasn't that hard and it wasn't that important and you just had to be like a DK or Paladin and move when you needed to move, assuming there was anything to Feral Charge TO in the first place.

It is a utility spell.

A more justified perhaps bait and switch is something like Bladestorm going from a talent that pretty much anyone took as a single spec to a talent that anyone CAN take as any spec. But big CDs like that aren't so much a bother to me, but I'm probably a bit biased since my talented CDs are brand new since there was nothing to snipe out of Boomkin or Resto that could be applied universally. In fact Boomkin had no mega-CD skill at all.

Oh well.

Point being, Feral Charge is utility and now you can choose your brand of utility. Yes prior you could get both but more often than not you only needed one, not the other, if you needed anything at all. Plenty of raiders get away with no movement buffs or sprints (including move speed on boots) and do just fine, the first tier is hardly a concern.
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100 Troll Warrior
20970
08/31/2012 10:00 AMPosted by Fasc
In fact Boomkin had no mega-CD skill at all.

Treants!
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90 Night Elf Druid
13785
In fact Boomkin had no mega-CD skill at all.

Treants!


Heh... well... umm... sure?

EDIT: Although to be fair I think Force of Nature for Feral is pretty powerful, or at least it was in one of the Beta builds. I'm not doing the DPS thing so I haven't really checked.
Edited by Fasc on 8/31/2012 11:38 AM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
That said, I think a bigger issue is that the mechanics changed significantly - it's now an Intervene rather than a Charge, and the former arguably has less overall utility.


It just adapts to the form. Feral and Guardian have the same mechanics with Wild Charge as they did before, as long as they are in the respective forms.
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90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
If you want to get technical, it's because having a 15% move speed increase that stacks with everything and having charge would've been completely overpowered and everyone here knows it.
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90 Tauren Druid
13205
Ghostwolf is similar movement-based utility, but if they removed it from baseline, and put it as an option to spec into (with other options that were better in some fights), a lot of shaman would feel grumpy that *some* shaman don't have ghostwolf anymore, even though it is still an option to take it.

Some druids feel similarly about Charge. I guess I'm in between, I'd feel more passionately about them taking away Ghostwolf as baseline than I do about Feral/Wild Charge, but I've been playing a shaman a lot longer than I have a druid. I do consider it to be pretty integral to the druid tanking style, not "just" utility, and it is a big part of why my tanking approach is very different on this toon than on my paladin. I'm not kicking up a fuss about it, but after the Cleansing Totem Loss Rants, I'm not surprised that some other druids are objecting to the change. ;)

I did find it a bit amusing that I originally responded to this thread on my paladin, but deleted my post immediately and reposted on my druid. It gives me a bit of cognitive dissonance to say, "I don't feel like a bear!" when I'm posting on my paladin, and not having Charge as a bear would give me a similar sense of weirdness/wrongness.
Edited by Candescently on 8/31/2012 8:06 PM PDT
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100 Worgen Druid
11820
If you want to get technical, it's because having a 15% move speed increase that stacks with everything and having charge would've been completely overpowered and everyone here knows it.


Overpowered is only bad when it's someone else's class.
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90 Human Paladin
12965
08/31/2012 12:30 AMPosted by Fasc
That said, I think a bigger issue is that the mechanics changed significantly - it's now an Intervene rather than a Charge, and the former arguably has less overall utility.


Wild Charge changes based on the form its used in. Its a Disengage for Boomkins for example, and still the leap behind for Cats. Its a normal root charge like it always has been for Bears.


08/31/2012 04:45 PMPosted by Slashlove
It just adapts to the form. Feral and Guardian have the same mechanics with Wild Charge as they did before, as long as they are in the respective forms.


The Armory talent page didn't show this - thanks for clarifying.
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
The one thing that was lost with Wild Charge instead of Feral Charge was Stampede for Feral. That's still annoying but they're married to that flaw anyway.
Edited by Slashlove on 8/31/2012 11:19 PM PDT
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100 Pandaren Warrior
16305
In fact Boomkin had no mega-CD skill at all.

Treants!


As of cata im pretty sure treants were literally the worst DPS cd in the game. (damage wise, on top of the fact they do whatever they want)

Edit:

Its a shame too because I used to be a moonkin and I though treants were cool. Bad, but cool.
Edited by Ðemolition on 9/1/2012 3:50 AM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
Feral Spirits in Cataclysm were worse >.>
Edited by Slashlove on 9/1/2012 6:23 AM PDT
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92 Worgen Druid
10595
Charge was NEVER BASELINE.

You lost absolutely nothing, nothing was taken away from you.


Oh now that's a dumb argument. Imagine the uproar if paladins had to spec into Avenger's Shield and it was on the same tier as Consecration or something else we've always had before.

Or hell, let's use an actual example: Ardent Defender was, for a short time in MoP beta, a talent on the same line as some other useful tools (I don't remember which tier.) There was indeed an uproar.

Taking things away just to give you the "choice" of getting them back works in general practice, but in this case taking away Feral Charge from bears was just mean.


/thread
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100 Pandaren Warrior
16305


Oh now that's a dumb argument. Imagine the uproar if paladins had to spec into Avenger's Shield and it was on the same tier as Consecration or something else we've always had before.

Or hell, let's use an actual example: Ardent Defender was, for a short time in MoP beta, a talent on the same line as some other useful tools (I don't remember which tier.) There was indeed an uproar.

Taking things away just to give you the "choice" of getting them back works in general practice, but in this case taking away Feral Charge from bears was just mean.


/thread


Why would you revive a 10 day old thread to say /thread?

Also you don't see warriors up in arms that we have to pick between IV, ER and second wind now.

We could have all 3 before.

Also we now have to pick between safeguard or vigilance.

We still don't care
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100 Troll Warrior
20970
09/13/2012 03:18 AMPosted by Sparklefever
Well technically you do but the Warriors in tank forums are either more level headed or keep their complaints to themselves and just reroll quietly

More like "weep softly and remind themselves that there's bigger fish to fry."
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100 Worgen Druid
11820
Druids do tend to attract the drama queens.
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39 Worgen Warlock
0
/thread


Except that that's not in the least what happened, and therefore a pointless counter argument. Feral Charge was never a rotation ability, it was never a survivability cooldown or anything else you compared it to; it was utility. As a BC, Wrath or Cata bear, you could have completely ignored it and have competed just fine - minus mobility.

You would have been more on base to compare it to Pursuit of Justice, which I -did- compare it to. As it stands, you're not just on a different page; you've completely jumped chapters.

In fact, not only did Feral Charge not get removed - it got buffed. It is now a combination Feral Charge/Intercept you can play with by jumping forms. Congratulations. You got a new toy, and are complaining about it.


Now stop necroing threads dead for nearly two weeks.
Edited by Rijdot on 9/13/2012 9:50 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Paladin
15075
And it would have been just as silly a complaint to say "Why did you take this away!?"

And just as silly for protection Paladins to be complaining about Pursuit of Justice being "taken away".


Oh oh oh i'm not speed of light is kewl... I get all glowy and run fast.

-_-

I should probably put run speed on my boots now
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85 Orc Warrior
10130
this thread made me realize that if they took charge from warriors it would hardly affect their playstyle in raids, since as a tank you really don't move around much in fights anymore anyway.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
5960
Oh god not this thread again :(
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