5.2 Competitive Fire PvP (in progress)

90 Dwarf Mage
14910
Welcome back fellow fire enthusiasts! Time to update an outdated thread! Grab a drink, do some more jumping jacks, and tune in soon for a condensed version of all of the glorious fire related activities.

The Kick Off
For starters, I'd like to re-introduce myself for those of you who are questioning my credibility or craziness. My in game character name is Bloobungle and I've been actively playing as a fire mage since season 5.

When I'm not devoting my life to the problems this world has to offer, I spend a good portion of my time strategically planning and coordinating high rated RBG's or playing arenas with friends. I've come to the find that you get the most enjoyment when you are kicking back and appreciating the game for what it is.

As always, a never completed masterpiece... Here is what I have to offer:

New Talents and YOU
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6470848078?page=1#2

Glyphs to Choose and WHY
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6470848078?page=1#3

Tricks and Tips for Success
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6470848078?page=1#4

Gearing and Other Readings
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6470848078?page=1#5

Team Building
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6470848078?page=1#6
Edited by Bloobungle on 3/5/2013 3:46 PM PST
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90 Dwarf Mage
14910
New Talents and YOU
Without going into too much detail, it's safe to say that the days of having a cookie-cutter spec are pretty much over.

Here is a quick link to our talents if you'd like to follow along (open in new tab):
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#eZ!

Tier 1 [Presence of Mind | Blazing Speed | Ice Floes]
Welcome Blazing Speed to a new tier! Scorch is now baseline for all fire mages! Woot! I'm a big fan of Presence of Mind for setting up combos now. Blazing Speed is definitely useful but, Presence of Mind outweighs it significantly at this point. Ice Floes is still Ice Floes...

Tier 2 [Temporal Shield | Flameglow | Ice Barrier]
The ripple effect of Temporal Shield is now unable to be dispelled! This makes it a little more useful but, still not all that stellar. Flameglow is great for damage mitigation. For those interested...

Spell power = (2/3)*Damage Taken = (1/5)*Shield

In other words, your Flameglow shield is equal to 1/5 of your spell power. You need to take 2/3 of your spell power in damage to receive the full benefit of the shield.

Example: 22,000 spell power = 14,667 damage for a 4,400 damage shield

Here's how I look at it.... Ice Barrier is still the best at mitigating burst damage. The downside is that it can be dispelled. Flameglow gives you the best method of mitigating damage passively. If you have a healer and will be taking hundreds of 10-40k hits, take Flameglow. Temporal Shield is still alright for certain situations. It's easy to tell when you are about to get chunked so throw up the shield and gain all that health back.

Tier 3 [Ring of Frost | Ice Ward | Frostjaw]
Ring of Frost no longer triggers instantly when coupled with Presence of Mind. No big deal honestly.

Ice Ward no longer shares DR with Frost Nova!

I tend to switch between all three of these talents based on the opposing team composition.

Tier 4 [Greater Invisibility | Cauterize | Cold Snap]

Tier 5 [Nether Tempest | Living Bomb | Frost Bomb]

Tier 6 [Invocation | Rune of Power | Incanter's Ward]
Invocation works quite well for maintaining a constant spell power buff. It's also wonderful if you enjoy hitting spell steal. You pretty much have infinite mana with this.

Incanter's Ward is now dispellable. Good luck keeping that buff active!

Back it up!
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6470848078?page=1#1
Edited by Bloobungle on 3/9/2013 6:57 AM PST
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90 Dwarf Mage
14910
Glyphs to Choose and WHY
Rather than going through every glyph there is to choose from, I'm going to list the one's that mold your game play. It is important to select the right ones based on what you are competing in. I for one typically change them around from one match to another.

Armors #3/4
An added defensive boost. 10% more mitigation to melee oriented teams or 10% more magic duration reduction against casters. Frost Armor isn't all that great unfortunately.

Deep Freeze #1
I often try playing without this glyph and find it hard to keep spells flowing at a constant pace. Sure, the Deep Freeze will last for 5 seconds, but the GCD addition makes it difficult to land the spell and it's rather irritating following the cast with other spells.

Evocation
Works well for solo PvP healing. I'm sure you can find some uses with the Invocation talent.

Ice Block #3/4
Great for the escape nova and silence immunity. I imagine it will have its uses against the new Monk aura. Still great against Solar Beam.

Polymorph #2
For obvious CC reasons. I tend to ignore this in 2v2.

Combustion
Great again in 2v2. I suspect it will have its place in RBG's and 3v3 as well. Gaining Scorch as a baseline has opened up an incredible opportunity to stack serious damage with Presence of Mind. More discussion below.

Momentum
Backpeddlers rejoice! Gain that extra distance and confusion by blinking in a manor nobody is used to. Kidding of course.

Back it up!
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6470848078?page=1#1
Edited by Bloobungle on 3/26/2013 2:13 PM PDT
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90 Dwarf Mage
14910
Tricks and Tips for Success

The highly anticipated combo breakers are here! These are just a few of the methods I use to create enormous amounts of pressure. The list complicates itself as you progress. Good luck! (Few to add)

1) [No POM] Starting from Heating Up, Freeze target, Scorch + Deep Freeze, Alter Time with Pyroblast!, cast Pyroblast! and cast Alter Time before Pyroblast! hits the target, cast Pyroblast!, Pyroblast! + Combustion, Pyroblast!, Inferno Blast and possibly one last Pyroblast!


So from Heating Up, you'll generate the first Pyroblast! going into the Deep Freeze. Alter Time is your key to generating the addition Pyroblast!. Believe me, you have to do this incredibly fast. It's not easy. Anyways, Pyroblast! with Alter Time will bring you to a state in which you have Pyroblast! and Heating Up. The next Pyroblast! will proc another Pyroblast! which in turn will proc Heating Up. Deep Freeze is about to end now, so you need to get the Combustion off while this Pyroblast! is travelling. With the two striking simultaneously, you should generate another Pyroblast!. From here, you can spread the damage with Inferno Blast or try to generate one last Pyroblast if you are feeling lucky.

2. [POM] Start from a Pyroblast! state, freeze the target, POM and then Alter Time, Pyroblast!, Pyroblast!, Pyroblast! and Combustion, Pyroblast!, Alter Time will expire, Pyroblast!, Pyroblast!, then Inferno Blast or more Pyroblast! depending


The main thing to note here is that you'll need Pyroblast! ready before you Freeze your target. This is incredibly devastating and you can always tailor the POM to your needs. In other words, you don't need to necessarily cast Pyroblast! with it.

Just like the first scenario, you need to be incredibly fast with the combos. The breakdown has you starting with Pyroblast!, throwing up a POM and Alter Time to regain those two buffs. The first Pyroblast! is used, and then the second will generate from POM. This is only Pyroblast (25% less damage). The third Pyroblast! is generated from those two critically striking. Combustion and the third Pyroblast! will give you room for one more Pyroblast! before Alter Time brings you back. From here, Deep Freeze will be over and you can chain two more Pyroblast! (and maybe get lucky) or use one then Inferno Blast. It's all situational really.


Now here's what it looks like in real-time. Well, typing-time...
Example 1:
Heating Up
Frost Nova (Shift-E)
Scorch (Mouse Button 4) and Deep Freeze (2)
Alter Time (S)
Pyroblast! (Shift-C) and Alter Time (S) before it lands
Pyroblast! (Shift-C)
Pyroblast! (Shift-C) and Combustion (Alt-Mouse Button 4)
[Deep Freeze ends]
Pyroblast! (Shift-C) or Inferno Blast (C)


Example 2:
Generate Pyroblast!
Frost Nova (Shift-E)
POM (Shift-Z)
Alter Time (S)
Pyroblast! (Shift-C) and Deep Freeze (2)
Pyroblast (Shift-C)
Pyroblast! (Shift-C) and Combustion (Alt-Mouse Button 4)
[Deep Freeze ends]
Pyroblast! (Shift-C)
Pyroblast (Shift-C) or Inferno Blast (C) or Polymorph (R)
Edited by Bloobungle on 3/26/2013 2:30 PM PDT
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90 Dwarf Mage
14910
Gearing and Other Readings

It looks like PvP Power and PvP Resilience still severely outweigh any other stats out there.

1% PvP Power = 266 PvP Power
1% PvP Resilience = 575 PvP Resilience

Here's an awesome breakdown of the PvP stats. Math, graphs, and all that jazz!:
http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/228345-52-pvp-power-and-resilience-guide/


Flameglow mitigation (also discussed in the talent selection):
1 Intellect = 1.15 Spell Power

y = (2/3)*x = (1/5)*z
Your spell power is related to the Flameglow shield in this manner.

You may be thinking... Hey, why not stack Intellect to absorb more damage? Well, let me save you the trouble of crunching numbers. It's no good. Intellect just isn't very valuable for us in the amounts that we can socket.

Golden gearing logic:
6% hit > PvP Resilience > PvP Power > crit > haste > intellect >>>>>> mastery

- PvP Power is certainly beneficial if you don't intend on tanking damage. Battlegrounds are a great example of where you'd probably be better off with PvP Power.
- Crit is crucial for obvious reasons. I still find it necessary to have haste though. You can't really set anything up if spells never land.

Here's a great fire PvE guide that discusses the basics. If anything, it may be beneficial to see the differences:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6489780130


Other knowledgeable fire mages I would suggest looking for:
Hansol (youtube guides)
Spicychopz (skill capped guides)
Affx (might not be fire but knows the role!)
Edited by Bloobungle on 3/26/2013 2:29 PM PDT
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90 Dwarf Mage
14910
Team Building

Finding a group of players you enjoy playing with is no simple task. I honestly wouldn't know where to start if I transferred servers with the expectations I have now a days.

You can pretend to be someone you are not or advertise yourself for what it is. I guarantee you will get what you pay for.
I've had the most fun playing with guys who've never done arenas. Not only do you have the opportunity to spread some PvP love, but you also test yourself in ways you've probably never attempted. Teaching someone how they should manage things is difficult. Teaching someone what to expect in 5.2 without losing your temper is almost impossible.

I can't tell you how you should play or how you should treat others. You have the right to do whatever you please. Having fun and being constructive is the best advice I can offer. There's no point in blaming everyone else if things are frustrating. Diagnose the problem, work up a solution, and practice. If all else fails, go eat a gallon of ice-cream like I do.
Edited by Bloobungle on 3/26/2013 2:21 PM PDT
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90 Dwarf Mage
14910
And because 6 sexy dwarfs in a row wasn't enough

Constructive and destructive criticism welcome. I'm no expert by any means and intend to learn everything that I can to maximize my gaming potential.
Edited by Bloobungle on 3/5/2013 3:59 PM PST
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100 Human Mage
13440
Never trust a Dwarven mage.
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90 Human Mage
6500
interested to see what you have to say about gearing. im way too lazy to do actual math, but i've tried stacking haste, mastery, and crit, and i have to say im leaning towards haste. anything above 25% crit seems kind of pointless, and with ring of frost having a cast time i think haste is going to be a viable option. also being able to get 4+ casts off during a deep freeze (with the glyph) is a huge amount of burst
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90 Dwarf Mage
14910
Outdated content removed
Edited by Bloobungle on 3/5/2013 3:59 PM PST
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Yay you are back !
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Actually Bloo, Ring of Frost is a 30 second cooldown not 25.
Also Frostjaw DRs your counterspell and other Novas.

I did have it but its to annoying ring of frost i think is a lot better.
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90 Dwarf Mage
14910
Rock on!
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100 Undead Mage
9365
Going with what I've observed, Frostjaw is going to be more than just a 1v1 application - it's actually a very amazing CC to put on a healer, which finally gives us a real CC to use against Resto Druids who are constantly swapping forms preventing a sheep.

Frostjaw > DF > DB > Poly x3 > Frostjaw > repeat

If they're sitting in Bear Form when you have the CC rotation on them, obviously you won't be able to sheep, but that still keeps them out for 13 seconds. They'll be forced to trinket nearly immediately to save someone, and provided you aren't the only person CCing on your team, they'll be locked out again.
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3 Undead Mage
0
Going with what I've observed, Frostjaw is going to be more than just a 1v1 application - it's actually a very amazing CC to put on a healer, which finally gives us a real CC to use against Resto Druids who are constantly swapping forms preventing a sheep.

Frostjaw > DF > DB > Poly x3 > Frostjaw > repeat

If they're sitting in Bear Form when you have the CC rotation on them, obviously you won't be able to sheep, but that still keeps them out for 13 seconds. They'll be forced to trinket nearly immediately to save someone, and provided you aren't the only person CCing on your team, they'll be locked out again.


i agree, frostjaw is a lot more versatile.
that said, fire does have the requisite set up tools for RoF (although it still kinda bones me how its not insta cast with congeal time anymore)

i also must strongly disagree with glyph choices. IB can be very situationally clutch but it creates more DR. The way I see it, poly, evo, spellsteal and DF are the major contenders.

Spellsteal is in fact extremely powerful if you want to play turtle style. You can steal 1-2 buffs off almost anyone for 5% heals on an instant cast that you will seldom be school locked out of.

Also I foresee the tier 6 invocate to be abused in conjunction with spellsteal (possibly by Abni, heehee). IIRC the invocate buff lasts pretty long, so you can always pre-evocate before a battle and burst on demand. The most obvious drawback of incanter's ward is that you must wait for it to burst for the real bonus to kick in, and i don't know if it can be dispelled or stolen.

I know I will be taking invocation as my main pvp spec is arcane, off-spec fire.
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90 Undead Hunter
8465
09/09/2012 09:59 AMPosted by Pyrokinz
Also Frostjaw DRs your counterspell and other Novas.


Is this the case? I like the spell, but if that is really so RoF will probably edge it out for me.
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100 Undead Mage
9365
i agree, frostjaw is a lot more versatile.
that said, fire does have the requisite set up tools for RoF (although it still kinda bones me how its not insta cast with congeal time anymore)

i also must strongly disagree with glyph choices. IB can be very situationally clutch but it creates more DR. The way I see it, poly, evo, spellsteal and DF are the major contenders.

Spellsteal is in fact extremely powerful if you want to play turtle style. You can steal 1-2 buffs off almost anyone for 5% heals on an instant cast that you will seldom be school locked out of.

Also I foresee the tier 6 invocate to be abused in conjunction with spellsteal (possibly by Abni, heehee). IIRC the invocate buff lasts pretty long, so you can always pre-evocate before a battle and burst on demand. The most obvious drawback of incanter's ward is that you must wait for it to burst for the real bonus to kick in, and i don't know if it can be dispelled or stolen.

I know I will be taking invocation as my main pvp spec is arcane, off-spec fire.


DF, Evo, and Poly are going to be the main glyphs to use hands down. With the way things are right now, Evo heals are still just as important as ever, Poly is obviously a must, and DF is just too powerful to not take. With the GCD removed from DF, I can 100-0 someone in a DF with just Pyroblast crits (3 of them). Granted this is 85 PvP and not 90, but the burst is still going to be very high. Additionally, that makes it all the more important when you're using it to CC since you now don't have to time it nearly as much as before.

Spellsteal is probably going to be strong, but that's definitely not something you'd want to use if you're running MLD/MLS/MLP or anything else with heavy DoTs (Fire included). It'll be useful as Frost definitely though, since you can probably trade off the Poly glyph for it.

Invocation is definitely going to be strong, though we'll have to see how it plays out. It's never been overtly difficult to get out of LOS for a few seconds (let alone 10) to get an Evo off, but obviously that depends on if they're focusing you the whole game or not. Incanters is probably going to be the go-to though, because (aside from the passive damage bonus) the extra shielding is almost always more important, especially if you decide to play with Temporal Shield.

Speaking of which Temp Shield is actually somewhat mediocre and extremely situational. It's amazing if you're at over 50%~ life and are consistently sitting there, but it's useless if you're anything below that threshold - you're in a spot where people have Executes and such, and popping it when you're at 50k life might save your life, but probably wont. With the current lack of kiting, Blazing Speed is probably our go-to at 90, though Ice Barrier still isn't a bad option - I've gotten away with no life before and healed back up, plenty of times.
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Yesss! Finally someone I can trust, this post needs to be seen by many more. We need to get it out there and popular. I was really lucky to find this.
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You update this before thing's go live with your final thoughts. Expecially since a few thing's have changed and such. Cheers.
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100 Troll Mage
20525
The idea here is to optimize my damage in the small window of opportunity you have to create as much pressure as possible. The crit level is because of:

100% crit on shatter = [2 * (1.5 * x)] + 50 [1.5 multiplier comes from the passive ability, Critical Mass]
100% crit on shatter = 16.67%


While this all adds up, Fire mages aren't shattering nearly as often as Frost mages do. It seems like setting up damage outside of a Deep Freeze would be extremely difficult with such low Crit. If you're relying on DF, you also need to consider the strength of haste over mastery since you can get more spells into that window.
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