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This guy has it wrong. A lot of the people who quit at the begining of Catacylism quit due to Heroics and Raids being far too hard for them to do. They came from Wrath of the Lich King where you could steamroll Heroics and pug raids with no big problem to a enormous brick wall when they tried to do what they were used to. Basically, they had nothing for themselves to do in this game.
Now I'm not saying that some more Hardcore people didn't quit but they were most likely the minority of those who left the game, not to mention those who were having burnouts from this game after years of playing were leaving in bundles aswell.
I stopped reading after the first paragraph. Let's take a look at 2 of the sentences.
He seems like an exaggerating tw@t. I have no desire to read more after that. I doubt it's any better.
Ricky Alvarez is either a master troll or an idiot.
Edited by Howdoing on 8/31/2012 11:01 PM PDT
I stopped reading after the first sentence. lets take a look at this sentence.
He seems like an exaggerating tw@t. I have no desire to read the rest of this post after that. I doubt it's any better.
Howdoing is either a master troll or an idiot.
Edited by Tek on 8/31/2012 11:53 PM PDT
People have a tendancy to ignore the improvements and focus on the negative. For example, I have a lot more cool and fun abilities on all my classes now than in Vanilla or BC. I don't have to spam trade trying to find a group for a dungeon (and more recently, a raid). If I like the look of a set of armor, I no longer have to lose that appearance just because another tier of gear came out and I want to remain competitive. The game has weather that changes. When I'm leveling a lowbie, I don't have to wait until lvl 40 to get a slow-riding land mount. Being in a guild means more than it used to, with perks and a guild bank to improve our quality of life. A lot of NPCs have audible voices that tell a story during quests, which helps me be further emersed into the game, along with other advances like phasing so I feel like what I'm doing matters as I see the effects of my actions by watching the environment change around me.
All these things and more are constantly overlooked or taken for granted when people remember "the good ol' days." Is it perfect right now? Of course not, but that's an unreasonable expectation. What's important is that WoW has been much improved since Vanilla.
Now a quote from the article:
"Sometimes they want to be the most mediocre of them all, in which case they’ll roll a Shaman."
I'll take idiot for 100 Alex.
Edited by Klarusboy on 9/1/2012 9:50 AM PDT
People have a tendancy to ignore the improvements and focus on the negative.
i totally agree. improvements have been made, but some improvements had unintended consequences. Especially the social aspect.
Don't agree... if it was true, then Wrath would've had a sub loss - not hit the milestone of 12 million players, the highest count of WoW subs ever to be reached, and they did that DURRING the year-long ICC period!
My theory as to what happened is simple: Wrath LFD (and Wrath in general) change people's tastes in what they loved in the game.
They learned that you don't have to slam a car-door on their heads to have fun. That fun and challenge can and ARE two separate things.
What then happened is when the game tried going back to more-challenging content, the players were already used to a full year of ICC25 man ROFLstomping through 15 randomly-chosen LFD dungeons for fun. Now, they can no longer pug raids... and the 15-25 minute action packed dungeons turned back into hour+ long CC pug nightmares.
VERY few people like to point out that when LFD was announced people were TERRIFIED of it due to how many pug-wipes prior to LFD happened (me included!) due to inexperienced players not knowing how to do CC. When LFD happened and people were gear-matched, it became a total game-changer and those long dungeons became a great time-killer and fun activity to do before raids!
But what happened with Cataclysm was EXACTLY what people feared before the start of LFD, long-!@# pug nightmares with so-called "noobs" who don't know how to CC, aren't experts on the dungeons immediately, ect... and thus it fell apart.
Edited by Meadows on 9/1/2012 7:29 PM PDT
I've been around a long time - since Beta. Started on a server called Nathrezim - the thought of playing on there again gives me hives.
I hard core raided from mid/lateish Vanilla until the Big Burning Crusade Nerf™. That's when, for me anyway, WoW jumped the shark.
I still play, though nothing even remotely closed to what I used to. Lack of time, IRL is cooler, life is different almost 7 years later, etc.
Here's where I think Blizz failed: They got rid of progression raiding. Those who, like me, were hard core raiding back in Vanilla, and you're ripping Naxx apart (back when it was challenging) and fighting to get to Four Horsemen -- you have your sparkly purples, people stop and stare and zomg, you're amazing! Let's go to Burning Crusade!!!
And suddenly green is the new purple. Back in 40-man raiding, building up a set of gear took for-freaking-ever. Raids were highly organized and PuGs were unheard of. Bosses could take months of strategizing to take down. It was a really time consuming and expensive (gold-wise) hobby.
So, BC comes out. Now, I liked BC a lot. I raided my fool head off back in BC. My priest was in a guild that was in the top 40-50 guilds in the world. Damn, I was decked out.
...er, sorry. Got distracted.
Anyhoo, progression raiding ruled everything. You didn't do the next dungeon or raid until you progressed there. You couldn't be carried, you had to know your class and your toon extremely well, and you had to have the gear - which you worked for, not had it plopped in your lap after running 3 dungeons.
Both Vanilla and BC had some really serious quest lines to get some of the top notch stuff in the game. I did them all.
...only to have Blizz rip progression raiding out of the game and every little snot-nosed and/or lazy player could have the same gear as me in a fraction of the time.
...Wrath ticked me off so bad, I quit for a good while.
It's been years, and I think there's a little piece of me that still grumbles and growls and whines over in the corner of my mind somewhere, and every once in awhile, I'll flip the bird and yell at Blizz to bring back progression raiding.
So.. does that make what Blizz is today bad? Yes & no. I'm still here. I think there's either a quotient of mental instability there or just sheer dumbassery on my part. It's a fun waste of time though. Someone else can go watch TV for 2 hours. I'm gonna game.
I hate dungeon gearing. There's a uniqueness that's missing and I sometimes feel that Blizz keeps trying to fix stuff that isn't broken just to attract newer players in to staying. Us veteran types - meh. Whatever. They'll stay or go, it's fresh blood Blizz is after.
That being said, it all boils down to one thing: those who REALLY scream loud about how Blizz sucks, etc.: Stop paying your $15 a month. Simple as that. Why play a game you hate? You wouldn't do it for any other game out there (I played Skyrim all of 20 mins before I ditched it), so why this one? Why do any of us keep playing WoW when we're often ticked off?
Too many answers, and it doesn't matter. What it boils down to is this: am I still having fun? Yes. Will I still have fun in Panda mode? Probably. If I don't, I'll be playing something else. No biggie. WoW STILL has one of the biggest social factors in the world for a video game. I game with some damn good people. I've made some pretty good friends over the years, met some IRL, went to Blizzcon (once - never again, even if they resurrect it) and spent waaaaaaay more than I wanna admit to on realm/faction transfers. I'm an adult. I'll walk away when I'm damn good and ready.
Until then, there are kneecaps to avoid and casters to annoy.
Edited by Guffie on 9/1/2012 11:44 PM PDT
As far as progression raiding being the issue, I really think the evidence suggests otherwise. Look at Sunwell, for example. Only 1% of all players ever got to see that content. 1%! Why in the world would Blizzard put so much effort into something 99% of their players will never see during that expansion? It doesn't make any sense. As Meadows pointed out, WoW became more popular when you didn't have to spend all your waking hours in a raid or carefully CCing your way through dungeons. "Hard" and "fun" are not synonymous and in Wrath of the Lich King, people had a blast.
I'm sorry you didn't like it and you would rather spend loads of gold and mega hours crawling through a dungeon or raid wipe after wipe, but 99% of all players don't consider that fun and if WoW is to be a success, it needs to please more people than it alienates.
And hey, I've got to say it: we are the 99% Blizz should listen to us! :)
Anyone saying progression raiding isn't there anymore is obviously waiting until nerfs to take place before they attempt heroic content. All of the top raiding guilds in the world were completed blockaded for weeks on heroic Spine this tier, and that's raiding about 40-60 hours a week on average.
Take Firelands as an another example, Paragon said on their guild website that they had like 500 wipes before their world first heroic Rag kill. The only change now is that after the top 1% get their kills and world rankings, Blizzard starts gradually tuning things down to levels that more and more of your average skilled raiders will eventually be capable of if they keep pushing.
The challenge is still there if you want it. If you doubt me, even with post patch spell improvements and knowledge of the fights, go back to some of your item level 391 and 397 gear, turn off the DS nerf and see how well you do.
These type of articles are simply for the back-in-my-day, overly-nostalgic people that prefer not to evolve alongside the game.
Because I somehow messed up my last post......
Im not quite sure why people are so interested in these kinds of posts. The main things I took from this article and what people have said so far in this thread are...
Each of the three tiers for Cataclysm been difficult. For instance, Cataclysm launched on Dec 7th and it took BL until Jan 25th to kill H-Cho'gal, Jan 30th to kill H-Al'Akir, Jan 31st to kill Sinestra, and Feb 3rd to kill H-Nef. That is four days from being 2months to clear current content for a top 5 world guild. That is a long time.
T12 took almost just as long. The 4.2 patch was released on Jun 28th. All bosses other than Ragnaros were killed by Jul 10th, and it took another month and two days to finally kill H-Rag on Aug 12th. So to complete T12 content as a top 5 in the world guild, it took a month and a half (plus the 500ish attempts that Paragon, and other guilds im sure, took to kill it). As well as many top guilds, and Blizzard themselves, saying it was the hardest encounter to date.
So that now only leaves T13. 4.3 came out on Nov 29th and this is the only one that i will give you that could be considered "easy". Everything, but Spine and Madness, was cleared on Heroic the week Heroic mode was unlocked. It took until Dec 24th to kill H-Spine, and then another 3 days to kill H-Madness. H-Spine was the only real difficult fight in Dragon Soul, and once that was down it was just a couple of days to get platform order figured out to get a kill.
With each tier taking at least a month to complete, more often than not it was longer, I have a hard time seeing how it is becoming too easy. In fact a lot of people ended up quitting or stopped raiding in T11 because it was taking TOO long.
Server Community is absolute !@#$ now. In Classic, Burning Crusade, and Wrath, you couldn't be a douche-noozle if you wanted to raid. Either guilds wouldn't recruit you or you wouldn't get invited to PuGs. Sure you could do 5-mans through LFD, and be the biggest douche ever and your server wouldn't care, because more than likely no one but you was from your server. Now with LFR implemented, people dont have to care about what the rest of their server thinks of them. Can't get into a guild? No problem, just hop in LFR. No one will take you for PuGs? No problem, just hop in LFR. Whole server dislikes you? No problem, just hop in LFR. It drives me nuts the anonymity that LFD and LFR gives, provide people to just pull the boss before the group is full, ect. And that anonymity that it makes some people feel when they are just sitting in SW/Org and trolling.
All that being said, I feel that all the changes are either irreversible or added to my enjoyment of the game. I absolutely hate what LFD and LFR did to the server community, but would i want them removed from the game? Hell no. While leveling a character, I dont want to have to stand in SW/Org and spam for the other spots and then travel to the instance portal. LFR allows me to play some characters that I would not normally be able to raid with, and get decent raid gear that character.
On the other hand, everyone that is asking for Classic/BC back is looking through Rose Tinted Glasses. They are just remembering the good and the fun about those expansions. As a player since late beta, I can assure you most of the players wouldnt be still playing/coming back if the game was even HALF as grindy as it was. Seriously, the game was stupid at times how much and often you had to grind things. 90% of the quests were kill 10 of these and bring me 30 of those, with a 5% drop chance.
The game has come a LONG way from Classic, and in my honest opinion, the vast majority of it has been good change.
I like hugs.
I agree with Guffie. I used to be a HARD core raider back in Vanilla. The moment BC hit and I replaced my 500+ days of played time Epics with greens from killing boars... that's when I knew I was going to be casual forever.
I do not want to play this game for a challenge if every patch my reward is stripped from me. So now I just chill, have fun, hug some lady gnomes. It was for this and the reasons Meadows posted that I quit during the first half of Cataclysm. The game was too hard for the reward that it gave you, that IMO is why people left in droves when Cataclysm came out.
The second half of Cata they finally realized there mistake and started backtracking and I think they have done an excellent job so far of getting back to what made Wrath such a hit.
Edit... aww bummer when you remove what the person said it doesn't say who you are quoting. ^^^^^^
Edited by Kaine on 9/3/2012 7:39 PM PDT
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