Phantom's NEW Poison Guide! 5.1.-ready!

90 Blood Elf Rogue
14960
08/31/2012 09:15 PMPosted by Cloaked
Are you sure? Cloaked double-checked the tooltip =o

Yes I'm sure. Once the debuff is on the target any and all melee attacks will heal you for 10% of their damage, not only melee attacks that re-apply the debuff.

The tooltip specifically states that all subsequent weapon strikes against the poisoned target will heal you, not subsequent applications of the poison.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Rogue
6980
08/31/2012 11:28 PMPosted by Pancakê
Are you sure? Cloaked double-checked the tooltip =o

Yes I'm sure. Once the debuff is on the target any and all melee attacks will heal you for 10% of their damage, not only melee attacks that re-apply the debuff.

The tooltip specifically states that all subsequent weapon strikes against the poisoned target will heal you, not subsequent applications of the poison.
Wait wait wait, you're right, Cloaked was thinking you were saying it didn't matter if the enemy was poisoned or not before the poison's effect went into... effect.

Yeah, all weapon strikes regardless of the poison application. Pancake, this is why we keep you around! You're the super math guy!
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Rogue
6980
08/31/2012 10:53 PMPosted by Berserage
will leave my attitude at the door.
Excellent! Now we can manage this civilly.

08/31/2012 10:53 PMPosted by Berserage
I notice that every guide on this forum is from a main who hasn't even killed heroic DW before
Current raiding progression of an individual does not change game mechanics or logic, nor the fact that we are all seasoned rogues who've learned through reading and experience.

Oh, also, Verelyse has. Caera has too. Haileaus as well. The rest of us don't raid regularly, due to schedule conflicts, lack of interest, burnout, etc.

Nothing you said has changed the fact that what I said was the correct way and your way was the sub-par way.

You act like managing procs/energy is hard, and that is your reason for not doing the right way, I don't get it.


What Cloaked said was to pool energy instead of clipping the envenom buff. If your other option is clipping the envenom buff, then you have 4-5 combo points. If you have 4-5 combo points and the envenom buff is still active, then you have already used special attacks.

Accept your defeat and offer your buttocks to Cloaked.

08/31/2012 10:53 PMPosted by Noitora
And the cattiness is why I wait for Elitist Jerks to tell me what to do.
MEE-YOW!
Reply Quote
85 Human Rogue
14610
Don't have to clip the buff, do you even raid? I really don't understand what you're trying to prove. Is managing buffs/procs etc, hard for you? I never have trouble with clipping and energy capping.

If you didn't notice I'm at a very high level of raiding(pre-nerfs), none of the Rogues you mentioned are even close to me.

I'll be honest, I have no idea what you're trying to prove, you sound like you're trying to tell me a sub-par rotation is better than the BEST rotation. Nothing you've told me has been important or close to showing your way is the better way. (Your only argument is energy capping which isn't even close to true if you know what you're doing).

I assume this is your main now and I'm not sure how you can argue with someone 100 times better than you and has put the theorycrafting to practice.
Reply Quote
90 Human Rogue
8105
08/31/2012 11:53 PMPosted by Cloaked
Accept your defeat and offer your buttocks to Cloaked.


http://www.soignorant.com/iimg/its-a-trap.jpg

also why doesn't this dude have legendaries? Mr. I'm-a-mo-hardcore-raider-than-u
Reply Quote
85 Human Rogue
14610
>Implying legendaries = hardcore, rofl.

I quit when we killed HDW, came back a month or two ago, 2 weeks off them.
Edited by Berserage on 9/1/2012 12:29 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Human Rogue
8105
the fact that i have them proves they require no dedication to get... and they're a dps upgrade so.... meh

you also have more clears and boss kills than i do, which i'm assuming were in 25m... were you sharing the clusters or someone getting them before you?
Reply Quote
85 Human Rogue
14610
We are a 25m guild, yes someone got them before me as he has been with the guild since it started. I only sell mount runs done on 10m.
Edited by Berserage on 9/1/2012 12:39 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Rogue
6980
09/01/2012 12:06 AMPosted by Berserage
100 times better than you and has put the theorycrafting to practice.
Lmfao

Are you serious?

I'll outperform you any day of the week, guaranteed.

Obviously you were too much of a joke to get the legendarys, seeing as it takes roughly half the time to get them in a 25-man guild. You're the only rogue main in the world using Blade of the Unmaker. It's embarrassing that you actually enchanted that.

09/01/2012 12:06 AMPosted by Berserage
very high level of raiding
So high that you've got the incorrect glove enchant. Or is this something else I don't know? God, you're a genius. Can you teach me more about the class? Here I've been thinking 65 mastery was better for assassination/combat but I'm clearly not at a high level of raiding, as you are.

Enlighten me.

09/01/2012 12:06 AMPosted by Berserage
Nothing you've told me has been important or close to showing your way is the better way. (Your only argument is energy capping which isn't even close to true if you know what you're doing).
You didn't even read my last post. Why are you still stuck on your basic idea that even the newest of newbie rogues know? Jesus Christ dude, let me spell it out for you:

You say it's better to mutilate twice during the envenom buff because I said it was better to pool energy instead of immediately overwriting an envenom. Read what I typed again.

You aren't even on-topic because your head's in the clouds because you're some big-fish-in-a-small-pond rogue CHAMPION who killed Deathwing in a 25-man raid.

Let me tell you something: if you killed Deathwing that soon and don't have legendaries or close, it's pretty obvious you aren't much to talk about.

09/01/2012 12:29 AMPosted by Berserage
Implying legendaries = hardcore, rofl.
Any rogue that was relatively serious about raiding this expansion has legendaries by now. Are you so hardcore that you prefer gimping yourself? Man, you're a real monster!

09/01/2012 12:06 AMPosted by Berserage
none of the Rogues you mentioned are even close to me.
You say "me," like there weren't 24 other people involved in your progression. Raid progression is not a measure of individual skill. It never has been. The fact that you're trying to say, "my raiding group killed this boss, therefore I am the best and most knowledgeable rogue" is disgusting and insulting. It's almost like me saying, "I was server first 85 rogue, so I'm better than you," except that's actually an individual achievement that I worked hard to get. What have you done besides coattail on a raiding team that doesn't think enough of you to give you legendarys? If you're such an amazing rogue, what fights have you ranked on?

Again, if I were in your place, I would've out-performed you. I grow bored of serious raiding, but it looks like I'll have to take it up again in Pandaria make it clear that you are the one who "isn't even close."

09/01/2012 12:06 AMPosted by Berserage
I really don't understand
You don't understand anything at all.

You're telling me that with the 2pc tier 13 bonus, bloodlust, blindside procs, venomous wounds energy gains, and an execute phase that you've never gained energy so fast that you needed to clip the envenom buff? It lasts 6 seconds max, which is a long time. You fail to think outside of the box. Why are you limited to training-dummy situations?

You say "mutilate twice after an envenom" like it's that simple. If blindside procs, what do you do? Just mutilate again and ignore the proc? Or do you have enough brainpower to react, use dispatch, and know whether or not to mutilate again?

If both crit, you're up to 5 combo points. You just pooled energy before an envenom, but you didn't get to use it all and your envenom still has 3 seconds left. What do you do? You haven't illustrated any real situations, all you've done is say "DURR HURR, MUTILATE 2 TIEMZ."

09/01/2012 12:06 AMPosted by Berserage
better than you
Maybe you're better at something, but it's not mut rogue.
Reply Quote
85 Human Rogue
14610
Look at my HDW kills, look at the date, I already said I quit raiding once we killed him.

Stopped reading when you said you'd outperform me, 50 haste is pref(See Rakez from Paragon), I like the static small energy and AS increase over a chance at another proc. (Was combat until 5.0.4 and don't need to change it as there is no point).

Anyways, I would write a reason for everything you said, but I'll be honest, you are nowhere near important enough or good, for that matter for me to waste my time. Assuming you'd outperform me with no achievements/kills under your belt worth mentioning is plain stupid and doesn't make you look cool, lmfao.

Look at your LFR/normal kills compared to mine, you've raid just as much if not more than I have this tier, let's not bring the casual I have a family and job arguement in here, you have the time, you're just bad.

I'd write more but you're a joke of a player. You don't have anything on that toon, or any toons to show that you're slightly as good as me, stay small with your assumptions. You can see my kills, pre-nerf ones, I am good, I am better than you, you will never get close to my level.

Proof you are nowhere near me, you've been on that server for 2 years and your realms progression is utter trash, see here: http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/us/hydraxis -- meaning you've never been close to impressive or pre-nerfed kills.

Now look at me: http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/us/barthilas -- see the difference? Yeah 1300 world ranks different, you'll never get close.

Still can't get enough of that joke about the enchant you said eariler, makes you look like the biggest moron.

You probably think that 35% nerfed content is easy so you think you could outperform me seeing as you don't need to do mechanics.
Edited by Berserage on 9/1/2012 2:19 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Human Rogue
8105
09/01/2012 01:56 AMPosted by Berserage
Look at your LFR/normal kills compared to mine, you've raid just as much if not more than I have this tier, let's not bring the casual I have a family and job arguement in here, you have the time, you're just bad.

You say "me," like there weren't 24 other people involved in your progression. Raid progression is not a measure of individual skill. It never has been. The fact that you're trying to say, "my raiding group killed this boss, therefore I am the best and most knowledgeable rogue" is disgusting and insulting.

he does lfr to test stuff and perfect rotation, or that's what i've gotten from his posts in other threads

09/01/2012 01:56 AMPosted by Berserage
Anyways, I would write a reason for everything you said, but I'll be honest, you are nowhere near important enough or good, for that matter for me to waste my time.
That's a pretty disgusting example of humanity right there.

09/01/2012 01:56 AMPosted by Berserage
Proof you are nowhere near me, you've been on that server for 2 years and your realms progression is utter trash
didn't know you had to be on a top server to know your class
Reply Quote
85 Human Rogue
14610
The whole point of my post was to show that he's made some stupid assumption saying he's better than me with no evidence, I showed him why I'm better. If I was good at something I wouldn't stay somewhere that holds me back. So I'm assuming he's as good as the guild he's in and/or server.

You can know your class, like I know most classes reforges/rotations etc, doesn't mean you're going to execute it well.

All he does is read guides and tries to back them up when someone says otherwise, see the glove enchant statement for more details. He obviously won't change his mind.
Edited by Berserage on 9/1/2012 2:55 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Rogue
6980
09/01/2012 01:56 AMPosted by Berserage
(See Rakez from Paragon)
Copying top players does not make you a top player.

09/01/2012 01:56 AMPosted by Berserage
I like the static small energy and AS increase over a chance at another proc.
You can like or prefer whatever you want, that doesn't change that it's subpar. Speaking of energy increases, let me guess: you never energy-capped as combat during adrenaline rush, did you? Of course not! Not an A+ player like you who can manage their energy and procs.

09/01/2012 01:56 AMPosted by Berserage
you've raid just as much if not more than I have this tier
Exactly. I have more experience than you, especially as assassination. You talk of having raided, and proved your theory, but I've already shown you situations where it wouldn't work.

You completely evaded answering.

You've deviated from the rotation proposition you threw out earlier to some nonsense about being better than me because my server sucks. What you're essentially saying is, "My friends can beat up your friends," when I have a different group of friends every week.

09/01/2012 01:56 AMPosted by Berserage
Proof you are nowhere near me, you've been on that server for 2 years and your realms progression is utter trash
This is definitely proof that I'm not as good as you if I ever saw it.

I'll give you real proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAlx_8O-iyc

There's me in ilvl 395 gear (you can see Vengeance equipped, but that is regular No'kaled) competing in damage with a BiS-geared arms warrior and rogue. They trashed me on Ultraxion because they're not only geared, but good players. They're good players, yes, but I am Cloaked. I do cool stuff that equals big DPS.

Of course, they pass me later in the fight, but there's nothing I can do about that. I'm just showcasing that I've excelled at this class since I got used to raiding back in Wrath. It takes practice and I certainly didn't get here overnight, nor can I do it on just any toon (only this and my unholy DK nowadays), but when I play rogue, I play it damn well.

You are more than welcome to engage yourself in some sort of DPS competition with me as well. I've high expectations from someone whose server is so progressed. ;)
Reply Quote
Don't forget cloaked, achievements = skill!

Without them you can never hope to truly understand your class.

Right?
Reply Quote
ooh ya
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Rogue
6980
Don't forget cloaked, achievements = skill!

Without them you can never hope to truly understand your class.

Right?
Seeing as Cloaked doesn't even have half their achievement points, there's really no contest as to whose word is more trustworthy. =(
Reply Quote
85 Human Rogue
14610
Edit: Let's not derail the thread any further, let's agree to disagree, I'll just hang around and help out with questions etc.
Edited by Berserage on 9/1/2012 4:37 PM PDT
Reply Quote
85 Human Rogue
14610
Nice try on this Cloaked, but a few things that you may want to correct.

Instant poison was not really removed from the game. It was as far as applying it, but with Deadly Poison, you get an Instant Poison proc. The graphic is still the same, etc.

Garrote, yes you do want to open with Garrote as it starts the venomous wound proc almost immediately. So as follows:

1)Sap (If Possible)
2)Vendetta
2)Garrote
3)Mutilate
4)Rupture (4 Point)
5)Envenomate

Why Envenom with 1 point? Well if you glyph for it, it applies a debuff that acts like Crippling Poison.

After that, they are slowed, you have your ticks on them and now you can start with your Expose Armor (glyphed), Dispatch, Slice and Dice, etc.

You want your poisons ticking right off the bat because it does massive damage.

Expertise is almost useless, so don't reforge for that. Around 6 to 6.5% is fine.

Mastery is KING. No two ways about it, the more Mastery you have, the more your poisons tick for.

You also want a bit of Haste as well, for energy regen because Assassination is not great at regenerating energy.

So your stats should go Agility>7.5 Hit>Mastery>Haste>Expertise (6.5 is fine)>and lastly Crit.


Isn't this a PvE guide? If so:

You want 7.5% expertise and hit, expertise IS useful. Garrote is a bad opener, it ticks less meaning less energy and venomous wound procs. You never want to apply Vendetta before having rupture and SnD up, loss of dps. With my gear reforged for haste I only get +4 energy per second so no, you don't want a little bit of haste meaning don't reforge for it, you'll get it in your gear and this is enough.

Agiltiy>7.5% hit/exp>Mastery>Haste>Crit.

I think I covered everything you said.
Edited by Berserage on 9/1/2012 4:37 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Rogue
6980
Well, it's mostly PvE but some of the stuff remains true for both.

Of course, PvP has no one set opener, and you definitely don't want to Vendetta from stealth because if you're just opening up, you don't really know whether you'll be able to sit on the target or not due to CC and whatnot.

Cloaked really has no idea what that guy's talking about. 6 is too much expertise for PvP anyway, and it's almost the PvE cap.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]