Topic MoP Tank Line-up
Heya, everybody! I come to you today with some questions that I would like to see answered from first hand experience rather than just random snippets from google.
I'm an officer in a reroll guild, just started raiding a few weeks ago and we're going strong thus far with our one 10 man team and looking to get a good push going into MoP and form another 10 man team. Not really looking to be top 100 exactly, but we want to down content while it's relevant and not rely on nerfs to get through it.
We do have a problem though, and it lies in our tank situation. Currently we only have one full on tank, and he's another officer currently playing a Blood DK. We have other people who have been building sets and are "willing to step up and OT if they have to" but nobody else to really tank. I, however, have taken it upon myself to answer the call of duty!
Now what I'm truly asking is, what are ideal set ups for tanks in progression groups come MoP? Like I said our actual tank is a Blood DK, he has expressed interest in maybe switching to Brewmaster but not quite sure. With the changes that I've seen to tanking (keep in mind I have VERY limited beta experience) it sort of seems like class/mechanics may play a more important role than before so it'd be nice to get that sorted.
So I guess assuming he's going to either be a Blood DK or a Brewmaster, what would my best bet be to pair up with him to make it easier to knock through the upcoming content? I have every class except Warrior at 85, and I have a Warrior at 78 so that's not really an issue. Just wanna help my guild progress, and do the best I can and figured I would come to the right people for the right answers.
Edited by Rvalue on 9/3/12 3:41 AM (PDT)
My preference is 1 mitgation tank & 1 avoidance tank, that way you can swap them around as you need them. I have no idea where panda's fall in that categorization.
If he's rolling a DK, I'd go pally or warrior. Pally will be simpler.
You can't look at the content and make a strong decision there, this last xpac, warriors and pally's were king, then 4.3 hit and suddenly DK was king.
Edited by Eflow on 9/3/12 7:20 AM (PDT)
brewmasters = DKs
warriors = paladins
druids are mushrooms.
Pick one of the 1st line, and one from the 2nd line. Can you mix? sure, but don't come complaining later on that fight A or B is hell on 10 man heroic because you don't have X tank.
Keep in mind there's no such concept of "MT/OT" anymore. Since firelands, I tanked 8 fights alone, pally tanked 7 fights alone, and all the other fights we tanked together. It's about "who is the best tank for each part of the fight".
It's about playing with class strengths. DKs and Brewmasters tanks are better to deal with big planned dmg (good cds and reactive mitigation/self heal) and magical dmg. Warriors and Paladins are better to deal with fast hitting bosses, adds, or anything that block excels at.
Paladins/warriors are better at tanking Baleroc, Majordomo, Bloods on Spine. (those fights are about constant physical dmg)
DKs (and brewmasters if they existed at the time) are better at yor'sajh, zon'ozz, Madness. (those fights are about magical dmg or big timed bursts where lining cooldowns is king).
So if you have a warrior/pally combo .. you'll have issues on pretty much any fight that is heavy on magical dmg. If you have a BM / DK combo, you'll have issues on any fight with adds, or constant pressure on the tank.
Hence why you mix it.
Druids are kinda in between them, since they have a natural magic dmg reduction (honestly no idea if they still have that), but not nearly as good as DK/BM versions .. but they can take the heat on high physical dmg fights, but again, not as good as a block tank.
You can put them on pretty much any fight, but they are never going to be as good/bad on them like the other 4 tanks. At least not on 10 man.
For pushing progression Eflow has hit the nail right on the head.
After messing around with both a warrior and a pali in beta, the pali has the ability to block massive amounts of physical damage, but for a shorter timeframe than a warrior.
I feel that both are very strong tanks, but that a pali has become the DK skill level tank of the shield tanks, takes a high level of skill to play to the perfect level, but the rewards of playing to that level are being able to pull off things that will impress the makers themselves.
Edited by Hornsolo on 9/3/12 10:11 AM (PDT)
Eflow is correct about bear tanking. I have tanked Heroic DW on this druid and my paladin, and on beta I have tanked with a 90 BM, paladin and druid tank. The active mitigation that druids have compared to the other 3 tanks is more risky and less reliable. Dodge just is too much RNG
Since I am a 10 man heroic progression tank, as of the current builds I won't be using my druid to tank. My tanking partner is a DK, and RNG rolls on gear being what it is, I know if I have to split plate tank gear with him it will slow the group, otherwise I would use my paladin to tank.
So my choice is to bear tank or Monk BM tank to take the leather gear that will otherwise be wasted( no rogue in our comp) based on my experience with both classes I will be going monk. Even with the latest energy nerfs that Eflow and Strawberry have documented.
I only hope they are not done tweaking monk tanks
Exactly right I think for 10 man. In a 25 it probably wouldn't be an issue having two plate tanks but in a 10 man it would not be optimal for fast progression.
If one of your tanks or both are DK's see if either of them are willing to learn to monk tank or even druid tank.
Thanks for the replies guys, sorry it took me a while was out at a barbecue today.
Yeah I was leaning towards the idea of shield and no shield for a tanking duo, it usually seems to work out well. As far as that goes however, would you say mobility is more important in the tank fights in MoP? Because if so I feel like Warrior might be the better bet when it comes to that but I don't want to just do something based off a whim. Unless something has happened with Pally mobility lately or Warrior mobility got changed in someway.
But as far as the whole non plate tank goes, would you say Brewmaster seems like a pretty solid, if not crucial tank with the current content? I've been watching a few videos on them and it seems like they pretty much have an answer to most situations which looks nice.
I feel that super high mobility isn't going to be a requirement, it might ease a mechanic here and there, but won't be game-breaking.
A pali has a lot of short cd's to manage, some that generate and some that use holy power, and one (if spec'd) that is neutral in that regard (sacred shield). There is always a button to push about 90% of the time, and you aren't waiting long if that isn't the case. Theoretically a perfectly played pali can reduce huge telegraphed hits the best of any tank, but takes more skill to smooth out "normal" incoming damage (just from my experience/observations).
That being said, I like the flow of a warrior better, I feel like I'm a better tank on a warrior even though I've tanked more on my pali alt than I have on my warrior alt on live.
I honestly think you should find a way to try out a monk if you can, to me it blends the mobility/activity of a cata warrior, with a very smooth AM system like a DK.
Except that druid and DK fight over tier. So no fight over offpeices but yes fight over tier :(
Brewmaster and DK looks good. Druid and any plate tank except DK looks good.
Edited by Eflow on 9/3/12 2:52 PM (PDT)
Thanks for the replies guys, sorry it took me a while was out at a barbecue today.
The idea is that you have 2 tanks, one of each type (and if possible optmizing gear types/tier as well).
"power" is very relative, and be 100% sure it will change several times. So the best tank now, prolly wont be the best tomorrow .. So I wouldn't take that into account unless you plan on rerolling each raid tier =p .
I'd either go with:
DK + pally
DK + war
BM + pally
Druid + War
Druid + pally.
And I'd avoid:
DK + druid (they share tier)
DK + BM (they fill the same niche, you might have issues on fights where block is good)
BM + war (they share tier)
War + pally (they fill the same niche and share pretty much all the gear that is not tier)
Considering your other tank is a DK, go with war or pally.
Sharing rings/cloaks/bracer/belts/boots is really not a big deal .. since the important part of the gear is mainly tier + weapons (trinkets pretty much every tank will share anyway).
I disagree that block is so powerful for adds or fast hits. Now that it's percentage based rather than a flat amount, there is no difference between blocking 30% of a bunch of little hits and 30% of a big boss hit or dodging 30% of every kind of hit.
If your argument is smoother damage while tanking adds, Pally/Warrior block capping is dead with 5.x. They are just as subject to bad RNG as an avoidance tank.