6.1 Fire Mage PvE Guide

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100 Troll Mage
17110
Patch 5.3 Changes:

General
- Arcane Brilliance had its mana cost reduced to 1%, down from 4%.
- Arcane Explosion now deals 40% more damage.
- Blizzard now deals 40% more damage.
- Dalaran Brilliance had its mana cost reduced to 1%, down from 4%.
- Flamestrike now deals 100% more initial damage. Periodic damage remains unchanged.
- Mirror Image creates copies that no longer cast Fire Blast, but their Frostbolt do 10% more damage.
- Teleport: Vale of Eternal Blossoms and Portal: Vale of Eternal Blossoms now have new icons.

Talents
- Flameglow now absorbs damage from each attack made against the Mage equal to 15% of their spellpower (down from 20%).
- Incanter's Ward now allows the Mage to gain up to a maximum of 15% increase to spell damage, down from 30%, but the effect now lasts 25 seconds, up from 15 seconds.
- Living Bomb periodic damage has been increased by 121%. Its explosion damage has been reduced by 78%, but now scales with additional periodic ticks added by haste, and hits all nearby targets (up from 3).


Thanks Mageski! Guide is now updated for the most part. The only section I remain unresolved on is our AoE rotation, particularly as far as the mage bombs are concerned, and whether Flamestrike is still worth using on extended AoE.

For those wondering as to which bomb to use for single-target, I think Living Bomb is the way to go. For the specifics on its scaling with haste, the explosion damage is increased by 25% each time an additional tick is reached. As far as AoE, my guess is that Living bomb will be the way to go in general for 1-5 targets, unless there are 4-5 targets that are spread out. Frost Bomb is still okay, especially for 6+ enemies, but in single-target it's starting to fall behind Nether Tempest and Living Bomb. Of course if small dps differences aren't an issue, then use whichever bomb you want.

As always, please feel free to ask any questions or add any corrections to the guide. And again, I'll need clarification on our AoE rotation/where our bombs come into play for AoE.
Edited by Coopthefat on 5/24/2013 6:49 PM PDT
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100 Troll Shaman
17345
Yeah if anyone can give some insight into what aoe rotation we are supposed to use I would be very appreciative. I know atm I am just doing the same things as those were fine before and they weren't nerfed but i imagine using other skills may be better now.
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90 Undead Mage
10965
Hey Coop, finished your guide and really dug it. Found a very small spelling error, if you have any interests in fixing it!

Q: Is Haste additive?

A: No, Haste is not additive; it's multiplicitive. When you're trying to determine how much Haste you have from buffs and gear, you must multiply all of these valuse together in order to find your true Haste. For example, lets say we wanted to determine how much Haste is needed in order to reach a certain cast time on one of our spells:
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100 Troll Mage
17110
Thanks for the pointer! From looking at Vykina's guide , http://www.methodwow.com/board/showthread.php?11363-MoP-Fire-Mage-Guide/#playstyle

as well as a few posts on the forums, it seems that Mastery becomes better than Haste after around 5036 Haste, which turns out to be an extra tick on our glyphed combustion.
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100 Troll Mage
20525
Thanks for the pointer! From looking at Vykina's guide , http://www.methodwow.com/board/showthread.php?11363-MoP-Fire-Mage-Guide/#playstyle

as well as a few posts on the forums, it seems that Mastery becomes better than Haste after around 5036 Haste, which turns out to be an extra tick on our glyphed combustion.


That haste number is extremely variable depending on race, set bonuses, etc. I've been doing a lot of testing lately and the line for Mastery becoming better is all over the place between people/gear sets. Sim your own toon to know for sure.
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Coopthefat:

Thank you so much for taking the time to write this guide. I am just now starting on a fire mage, and I can already tell that your guide will be an invaluable resource. This is very much appreciated, I can assure you.
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90 Human Mage
14585
Thanks for the guide. 2 questions, anyone can answer.

1. Should I even have Scorch on my bar?
2. When I get Heating Up, and I cast another Fireball after it procs, directly followed by an Inferno Blast, it always procs again even if my fireball didn't crit. Is this because Inferno Blast hits the boss first even though it was casted after Fireball?
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100 Troll Mage
17110
Thanks for the guide. 2 questions, anyone can answer.

1. Should I even have Scorch on my bar?
2. When I get Heating Up, and I cast another Fireball after it procs, directly followed by an Inferno Blast, it always procs again even if my fireball didn't crit. Is this because Inferno Blast hits the boss first even though it was casted after Fireball?


1. Yes, you use Scorch primarily when moving if you aren't dealing with Heating Up/Pyroblast, or refreshing any DoTs.

2.If I understand it correctly, yes. Fireball has a travel time (around a second, maybe a bit off, I don't exactly remember) so if you use Inferno Blast right after casting Fireball, then the Inferno Blast should land first.
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100 Troll Mage
20525
2.If I understand it correctly, yes. Fireball has a travel time (around a second, maybe a bit off, I don't exactly remember) so if you use Inferno Blast right after casting Fireball, then the Inferno Blast should land first.


Fireball and Pyro have a hard coded travel time between 0.25 and 0.75 seconds, depending on distance. Inferno blast will hit at 0.00, landing before the Fireball and giving you your Pyro! proc.
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100 Troll Shaman
Woe
13335
Whats a good combustion tick in 522 gear
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100 Troll Mage
17110
Finally updated the guide again, just changed the wording of some of the talent sections, and also simplified/changed the AoE rotation.

Whats a good combustion tick in 522 gear


I haven't raided as Fire this tier (I've only been using it for weekly Alysrazor runs). The best attempts I get 20k-22k, but that's 1) only my buffs, and 2) that's the number I get when I hovered my mouse over the debuff. Honestly I don't remember if that number is accurate or not, your best bet would be to look at some WoL reports, pick a few fire mages of different gear levels, and look at the averate ticks/crit tick values. Or put yourself or other mages into a simulation such as simulationcraft and compare the combustion ticks there.

EDIT: One of the previous streamers, Audacity, has stopped streaming and raiding (I don't know if temporarily or not), so I removed his stream and added Xiun and Arold. If there are any other streamers or youtube channels of mages, then please let me know so I can list them in the guide.
Edited by Coopthefat on 8/2/2013 8:24 PM PDT
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100 Troll Mage
20525
With raid buffs at 522 I'd say 40k or so is probably reasonable. It's hard to say. Combustion is heavily influenced by things like trinkets. If you have weaker procs, your Combustion will tend to be weaker. Also, if you have a lot of Haste procs, the value of the tick becomes a little less important than maximizing how many ticks you get.
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100 Troll Mage
20525
2-3 Enemies:

1. Keep up Living Bomb and spread DoTs with Inferno Blast
2. Keep up Flamestrike (if stacked together)
3. Use Cone of Cold (glyphed)
4. Continue with your Single Target rotation

4+ Enemies:

1. Apply Nether Tempest to all targets
2. Cast Flamestrike
3. Use Cone of Cold (glyphed)
4. Continue with Single Target rotation


Nether Tempest is still best for 2-5 targets because of the higher cleave damage.
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100 Troll Mage
17110
Changing it.

EDIT: I'm unsure of what our theoretical rotation is with 6+ targets, seen conflicting conclusions in other guides. I want to say that we start using Frost Bomb, maybe LB, as putting NT on all would become quite a task. I've tried using Lhivera's tool for finding damage with different spells on different # of targets, but the interface is confusing to me. Even then, I can't think of any fights off the top of my head in ToT that has extended AoE we'd change for.
Edited by Coopthefat on 8/8/2013 9:17 PM PDT
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100 Troll Mage
20525
Frost bomb with Flamestrike and Blizzard/AE for 6+ if they're clustered. If spread, stick with NT and just keep tab dotting all year long.
Edited by Mageski on 8/9/2013 9:33 AM PDT
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100 Troll Mage
7630
I went fire for our last raid - 530 item level, decent crit gear. I understand the RNG nature of fire but I was having a lot of issues lining things up. First off after hours of dummy and LFR practice, I just can't seem to get the combustion/alter time/POM rotation down. I follow icy veins to a T but it's a mess. I managed a very large combustion on the council, surprising our warlock, but it was so inconsistent. More practice is warranted but I feel a lack of confidence with this spec after playing frost like a boss for so long and putting up great numbers. I also drop to nothing when we do trash. I understand it's not super important but if it's 3 or more, I just take a dive in DPS an I am not sure what to do about it. If combustion is up, I can complete, kinda. I know mages have !@#$ty AOE but anyone have thoughts on this blarb I just typed?

My stuff: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/Hyjal/herculenis/advanced
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90 Goblin Mage
5860
i dont think my gear is there yet for fire, yet the patch changes are coming soon so i dont think that it will be viable for me any ways... so i was wondering are mages going mastery already? i thought we were going haste as frost -_-
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100 Troll Mage
17110
i dont think my gear is there yet for fire, yet the patch changes are coming soon so i dont think that it will be viable for me any ways... so i was wondering are mages going mastery already? i thought we were going haste as frost -_-


Last I heard from PTR, Combustion was nerfed a lot. So unless that was reverted, that'll reduce the value of Mastery for Fire by quite a bit, likely being behind Haste, though I haven't confirmed via Simcraft yet.

I went fire for our last raid - 530 item level, decent crit gear. I understand the RNG nature of fire but I was having a lot of issues lining things up. First off after hours of dummy and LFR practice, I just can't seem to get the combustion/alter time/POM rotation down. I follow icy veins to a T but it's a mess. I managed a very large combustion on the council, surprising our warlock, but it was so inconsistent. More practice is warranted but I feel a lack of confidence with this spec after playing frost like a boss for so long and putting up great numbers. I also drop to nothing when we do trash. I understand it's not super important but if it's 3 or more, I just take a dive in DPS an I am not sure what to do about it. If combustion is up, I can complete, kinda. I know mages have !@#$ty AOE but anyone have thoughts on this blarb I just typed?

My stuff: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/Hyjal/herculenis/advanced


I can't really comment much on your gear atm, seeing as it's Frost, but assuming it'd be all changed for Fire, I'd think you'd have enough Crit. For your Fire talents you're currently using RoP, and I'd really recommend switching to Evocation, it's just better in nearly every way for our spec. Take Presence of Mind instead of Blazing Speed, it'll help a lot in setting up your Combustion - with Alter Time you essentially get 2 instant-cast Pyroblasts.

Other than that, it's really just being able to time your Combustion well. So having a Hot Streak proc, and another crit after that hopefully, then alter time and use Inferno Blast to get more Pyroblasts out. Once you've gone through that and your PoM Pyroblasts, you can Combustion. THat's the most ideal situation for Combustion, but sometimes you won't get that many Pyroblasts, it really depends on getting a few crits in a row before popping Alter Time.
Edited by Coopthefat on 8/18/2013 7:32 PM PDT
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100 Troll Mage
20525
I went fire for our last raid - 530 item level, decent crit gear. I understand the RNG nature of fire but I was having a lot of issues lining things up. First off after hours of dummy and LFR practice, I just can't seem to get the combustion/alter time/POM rotation down. I follow icy veins to a T but it's a mess. I managed a very large combustion on the council, surprising our warlock, but it was so inconsistent. More practice is warranted but I feel a lack of confidence with this spec after playing frost like a boss for so long and putting up great numbers. I also drop to nothing when we do trash. I understand it's not super important but if it's 3 or more, I just take a dive in DPS an I am not sure what to do about it. If combustion is up, I can complete, kinda. I know mages have !@#$ty AOE but anyone have thoughts on this blarb I just typed?

My stuff: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/Hyjal/herculenis/advanced


If you aren't regemming/reforging for Fire, you're gonna have a bad time. Fire is extremely reliant on Critical Strike.
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100 Troll Mage
10505
I'm having the same issue as Herculenis. I'm at 519 but I have a 4 set and as decent weapon. I switched to fire early because I want to be ready to play it in 5.4.

I should be doing fantastic but I'm not. All my trinkets need to proc, then I need to prey that I get 4-6 pryro crits in a row using AT in order to land a big ignite/combustion. Sometimes it works out and my ignite can get up to 80-90k. Other times I get no crits and a lowsy 35k ignite. That sucks! Especially after waiting 3 minutes. It is a huge dps loss if the RNG Gods don't help. It is extremely frustrating doing 145k on a boss and the next time around only doing 90k. I am either doing something wrong, or fire is extremely unpredictable at lower i levels. If this is the case, at what i level does fire start doing more predictable consistent raid damage?

Couple of Questions:

1. I have Breath of the Hydra trinket. I really need this thing to proc as much as possible for big Combustions. Correct me if I am wrong, but shouldn't I always choose Nethertempest to maximize the dot ticks and thus increasing the odds that it will proc?

2. During Lust and immediately following AT, I think it might be a dps loss to continue the same rotation (fireball till !pryo and heating up before doing the double cast of Fireball with immediate !pryro and hope that one crits). Before rinsing and repeating. I am wondering if it might be better to stand and do nothing until the !pyro hits the target and if it crits (which it should) cast another !pryo effectively chaining !pyro's. I can sometimes get 3-4 in a row before having to cast fireball again. Casting fireball in between the Pyros sucks up so much time which might be a dps loss. Can some experienced fire mages chime in here?

3. Should the rotation change with better gear or lust or AT?

4. Trash mobs go down so fast in raid that I don't have time to get a target properly doted before spreading the dots. Pyro->mage bomb->fireball->(get heating up)->fireblast (spreads the dots)->fireball until another heating up (could be a few casts depending on RNG and crap the first mob is dead, switch to the next which is at half health, try to cast more fireballs trying to get heating up and if none come, dps sucks. If I do get some crits early, I can combust and spread it which will put me on top of the meters. If I don't get crits early, then my dps is crap. Am I doing something wrong or do I need a butt ton more crit for this spec to be any fun?

Help!
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