6.1 Fire Mage PvE Guide

(Sticky)

90 Troll Mage
9060
rawr is showing elemental enchant higher than windsong
Reply Quote
100 Goblin Mage
18965
Your wording for the Glyph of Combustion is incorrect. Only the direct damage is doubled, not the ticks. The rest of it is correct, ie the duration and cooldown is doubled.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Mage
8070
How does Elemental Force stack up to Windsong? Can you provide any numbers?
Edited by Conceit on 10/2/2012 6:44 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Mage
15960
Has noone mentioned the few things wrong with your stat scetion yet? : /

1. You make NO mention of expertise. Are you aware, that expertise, for ALL characters, is turned into spell hit? So the best theoretical glove enchant is 170 expertise, since it's essentially 170 hit. Meaning Engineers can get closer to the Hit cap by using both the hit and expertise cogwheel!

Mention the Troll racial! It gives you 1% expertise with wands, meaning 1% free hit! Make use of your Racials! (I am race changing today)

2. You want to gem crit out your !@#$. Same as warriors, we are crit starved right now. So we need to gem for as much crit as we can manage. That means Potent or the 160 expertise-160 crit gem in your red sockets, 320 crit in your yellow and Belt buckle, and the 160 hit-160 crit gem for blues. The ammount of crit you gain from this is invaluable. You will see your consistancy go up immensely, especially with the raid boss 3% crit supression. We NEED more crit now because of that, or fire just will not cut it. Simed in BiS pre-raid gear, I managed to get myself to 23% crit unbuffed. 34-35% buffed, and over 50% with Crit mass. Am I at that BiS level yet? No. But I am getting closer. Stupid scholo staff...

Other than those though... A good reliable guide for mages trying to re-learn fire.
Edited by Raven on 10/2/2012 8:04 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Mage
15960
10/02/2012 06:26 AMPosted by Raves
Your wording for the Glyph of Combustion is incorrect. Only the direct damage is doubled, not the ticks. The rest of it is correct, ie the duration and cooldown is doubled.


It also doubles the duration of the Dot my friend. So yes, it does double the Dot damage. It is the best Simed glyph because if you use it right, IE when your trinkets/Procs/Lust are up, you get an effective TWO combustions with all of those increases instead of one.
Edited by Raven on 10/2/2012 7:52 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Troll Mage
13965
10/02/2012 06:26 AMPosted by Raves
Your wording for the Glyph of Combustion is incorrect. Only the direct damage is doubled, not the ticks. The rest of it is correct, ie the duration and cooldown is doubled.


Tick damage isn't directly doubled, but with the glyphs you get 20 ticks instead of 10, on the assumption of no Haste, so it is in effect double the number of ticks, so the damage is in a sense doubled.

Has noone mentioned the few things wrong with your stat scetion yet? : /

1. You make NO mention of expertise. Are you aware, that expertise, for ALL characters, is turned into spell hit? So the best theoretical glove enchant is 170 expertise, since it's essentially 170 hit. Meaning Engineers can get closer to the Hit cap by using both the hit and expertise cogwheel!

Mention the Troll racial! It gives you 1% expertise with wands, meaning 1% free hit! Make use of your Racials! (I am race changing today)

2. You want to gem crit out your !@#$. Same as warriors, we are crit starved right now. So we need to gem for as much crit as we can manage. That means Potent or the 160 expertise-160 crit gem in your red sockets, 320 crit in your yellow and Belt buckle, and the 160 hit-160 crit gem for blues. The ammount of crit you gain from this is invaluable. You will see your consistancy go up immensely, especially with the raid boss 3% crit supression. We NEED more crit now because of that, or fire just will not cut it. Simed in BiS pre-raid gear, I managed to get myself to 23% crit unbuffed. 34-35% buffed, and over 50% with Crit mass. Am I at that BiS level yet? No. But I am getting closer. Stupid scholo staff...

Other than those though... A good reliable guide for mages trying to re-learn fire.


I did mention that Expertise=Spell Hit at the end of the stats section, but I wasn't aware of the Expertise enchant for gloves. Crit is indeed important for us, but it's still not more important than Intellect. So you always want some combination of Int, Int/Hit, and Int/Crit, not Hit/Crit, as you suggest.

EDIT: I changed the gemming section slightly. Since Rawr and Simulationcraft haven't been fully updated (as far as I know), I'm not going to make any wild guesses about what stats are good and how much are needed, as far as matching socket bonuses is concerned.
Edited by Coopthefat on 10/2/2012 9:26 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Mage
9455
10/02/2012 07:50 AMPosted by Raven
1. You make NO mention of expertise.


Yes, he does, actually.

10/02/2012 07:51 AMPosted by Raven
It also doubles the duration of the Dot my friend.


He did say that, and it's even in the quotation in your post.
Reply Quote
100 Goblin Mage
18965
I guess I was just trying for some clarity, so as not to mislead people to think they will see 2x ticks for 2x duration when it is simply 1x ticks for 2x duration.

Other than that I want to also pass on my thanks, as I should have in my original post in this thread, for a great compilation. It helped me get back on my feet in several areas, and I think the effort is commendable.

Also, to be clear, the glyph of combustion does nothing for you that 2 casts of normal combustion wouldn't do except deliver them with one cast and doubling the initial direct damage. In my opinion, it serves in long fights where the opportunity to build a significant ignite would be few and far between, but it takes away the flexibility of having it on a shorter cooldown, which means it is less useful in dungeons, trash, or having it to add to a quick adds burn, etc.
Edited by Raves on 10/2/2012 9:37 AM PDT
Reply Quote
100 Troll Mage
10875
You need to update this, Non of this stuff is correct.....
Reply Quote
90 Troll Mage
13965
10/02/2012 06:03 PMPosted by Bønd
You need to update this, Non of this stuff is correct.....


Can you please elaborate on the specific information that's incorrect?
Reply Quote
90 Gnome Mage
15775
thanks for the guide, its helping me figure out the new mage priorities :)

a minor point, but JC only uses 2 of the special MoP gems to get their stat boost, not 3
Reply Quote
You should definitely mention what raven said about gemming. It is entirely possible depending on your stat weights that 2 crit > 1 int or 2 hit/expertise > 1 int socket bonuses permitting. I know it was that way for me last time I checked I just haven't gotten around to completely regemming/forging myself assuming simc is correct
Reply Quote
90 Troll Mage
13965
10/08/2012 04:30 AMPosted by Turkeyone
You should definitely mention what raven said about gemming. It is entirely possible depending on your stat weights that 2 crit > 1 int or 2 hit/expertise > 1 int socket bonuses permitting. I know it was that way for me last time I checked I just haven't gotten around to completely regemming/forging myself assuming simc is correct


Yeah, that's what I discovered on Simcraft. I'll put in my character, then the Fire BiS list, and simulate both, and see the weights. If I have time with that tonight, I'll determine the best gems to go with what sockets for particular socket bonuses. I'm still skeptic on people claiming to use straight Crit or straight Hit gems, as I see some mages doing different gemming strategies, but I'll wait until I can verify with math. If anything, the value of those gems will be stronger right now than it will be with more gear, I think the value of straight Crit gems starts to drop once you reach ~25% Crit raid-buffed. If anything, hybrid gems will stronger than ever.

thanks for the guide, its helping me figure out the new mage priorities :)

a minor point, but JC only uses 2 of the special MoP gems to get their stat boost, not 3


Fixed.

I guess I was just trying for some clarity, so as not to mislead people to think they will see 2x ticks for 2x duration when it is simply 1x ticks for 2x duration.

Other than that I want to also pass on my thanks, as I should have in my original post in this thread, for a great compilation. It helped me get back on my feet in several areas, and I think the effort is commendable.

Also, to be clear, the glyph of combustion does nothing for you that 2 casts of normal combustion wouldn't do except deliver them with one cast and doubling the initial direct damage. In my opinion, it serves in long fights where the opportunity to build a significant ignite would be few and far between, but it takes away the flexibility of having it on a shorter cooldown, which means it is less useful in dungeons, trash, or having it to add to a quick adds burn, etc.


I apologize. I reread what you said and the tooltip, and you're correct; the double damage only applies to the initial direct damage. Reworded the section to reflect this change.
Edited by Coopthefat on 10/8/2012 10:38 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Human Mage
12030
You may want to take a look at glyph of cone of cold for AoE situations. Just hit 90 on this mage and it hits for ~110k on 4 targets.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Mage
4920
Awesome guide. I wasn't sure whether or not I wanted to play my Mage this expansion because of all of the changes to the Fire Spec (which I leveled as, PVPed as, and raided as in 4.3) that I saw in 5.0.4 Pre-Mists. I'm only level 88 on this guy right now but I'm loving all of the new tools at our disposal, especially Ice-Barrier.

Question: I've only run a few dungeons on this guy so far, mostly trying to take in the lore as I make my first foray into MoP. Would it be suggested to run two specs that split Nether Tempest and Frost Bomb? Or is it just better to carry a few Tomes around and switch that talent when it is most needed?

Also, I've noticed that I like putting Ice Ward on the tank a lot for giving me the extra freeze leading to shatter crits with Flamestrike/Blizzard/AE. I feel like RoF is better in BGs for defending a pathway or a node and Frostjaw in Arenas when you can chain the silence/root with deep freeze. Also, I suggest adding the Cone of Cold glyph for AoE situations.
Reply Quote
Anyone ever tried scorch as their main nuke? My friend mentioned something to me a while ago and scorch definitely seems to give me higher DPS.
Reply Quote
90 Human Mage
12855
10/09/2012 07:14 PMPosted by Kastere
Anyone ever tried scorch as their main nuke? My friend mentioned something to me a while ago and scorch definitely seems to give me higher DPS.


I've been tempted to try this, mainly because more frequent casts theoretically means more heating up
Reply Quote
87 Pandaren Mage
10090
Coop thanks for the guide. As someone who used to teach you stuff and hasn't played in over a year it is nice to see such an informative guide.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Mage
13965
This is something I really should of done 1-2 weeks ago, but I digress. I determined the correct gems to use. For this test, I ran SimulationCraft for two runs, each with 50k iterations. Well, assuming that SimulationCraft is currently accurate. The first one was a random chosen mage at pre-raid BiS gear:

Int- 3.88
SP-2.98
Hit-2.48
Crit-2.08
Haste-1.47
Mastery-1.42

These values will always depend, but their exact values won't usually affect the final outcome if you run it on the same character. The next test was done on a full heroic BiS gear setup:

Int-5.10
Hit-4.25
SP-3.82
Crit-3.45
Haste-2.78
Mastery-2.46

By multiplying these stat weights by each stat amount on the given gems, we can determine the gems that will yield the most theoretical dps. I'd like confirmation frm some others, but this is what I discovered to be the most optimal gems (I got the same gem results from both of these tests):

Red Slot:

Potent Vermilion Onyx

Blue Slot:

Veiled Imperial Amethyst or Rigid River's Heart (pre-raid, they're virtually equal. With more gear, gemming straight Hit will become unnecessary).

Yellow Slot:

Smooth Sun's Radiance

It looks like it's prudent to match most socket bonuses. The results for the Blue Socket, to gem straight Hit, sort of puzzle me, since we could just reforge for Hit, but I won't argue with math. One interesting thing to note is that from the pre-raid list, for the yellow socket, the difference between using a 320 Crit gem and an 80Int/160Crit gem is ~25 dps, which is a very minuscule difference. This difference disappears by the time we reach heroic BiS gear. The same can be said about the red slot in pre-raid BiS gear: the difference between a 160 Int gem and a 80 Int/160 Crit gem is ~23 dps.

The main thing that puzzles me from these results is that as we approach heroic BiS gear, the ratio of Crit/Int becomes larger than it was in pre-raid gear, meaning the value of Crit, relative to Int increases. Usually, Crit decreases in value over time (you get more benefit from going from 11% to 12% than 12% to 13% crit, for example), but I may not be thinking about this in the right way.

Anyways, by the end of this week I might put up a video version of this guide on youtube in the resources section, and from that channel you could watch my videos if you want (I record kill videos for my 10-man raiding guild), but for this tier I'm going Frost. This is more of for personal reasons than one spec being superior to the other.

10/09/2012 07:14 PMPosted by Kastere
Anyone ever tried scorch as their main nuke? My friend mentioned something to me a while ago and scorch definitely seems to give me higher DPS.


Intuitively, this may make sense, but overall, since Scorch does such less damage than Fireball does, it's still an overall dps loss. Only use it if you're hoping to fish for a Pyroblast proc to get an immediate Pyroblast. Other than that, only use Scorch while moving.

Question: I've only run a few dungeons on this guy so far, mostly trying to take in the lore as I make my first foray into MoP. Would it be suggested to run two specs that split Nether Tempest and Frost Bomb? Or is it just better to carry a few Tomes around and switch that talent when it is most needed?

Also, I've noticed that I like putting Ice Ward on the tank a lot for giving me the extra freeze leading to shatter crits with Flamestrike/Blizzard/AE. I feel like RoF is better in BGs for defending a pathway or a node and Frostjaw in Arenas when you can chain the silence/root with deep freeze. Also, I suggest adding the Cone of Cold glyph for AoE situations.


I don't think you can actually hold two Fire specs at once. I think it's intended for you to use your Tomes to switch out talents periodically. I'd only recommend using glyph of Cone of Cold in situations where mobile AoE dps is vital, but in comparision to other glyphs, is usually not worth it.

10/10/2012 07:53 AMPosted by Carboncast
Coop thanks for the guide. As someone who used to teach you stuff and hasn't played in over a year it is nice to see such an informative guide.


Carboncast! No problem, I haven't seen you in quite some time, possiby since late WoTLK? Anyways, glad to see my guide was helpful to you.

EDIT: Wasn't thinking clearly on the Hit gems. Right now it might be useful to gem straight Hit in order to reach the cap, but once we obtain more Hit from gear, gemming straight Hit will become unnecessary.
Edited by Coopthefat on 10/10/2012 9:10 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Undead Mage
5430
I hope most people realize that reforging and gems should be hit only until 15 percent. Im seeing alot of mages trying to stack crit like crazy, and thats not the way to go, not untill your hit capped.

My Mage Guidelines:

Under Hit Cap: Gem All Items For Hit (except the ones needed for meta). Any Item that has no hit, reforge the mastery/haste/crit into hit (in that order, mastery is worse than haste is worse than crit is worse than hit).

Above Hit Cap: Gem for pure Int. Reforge Hit/Mastery/Haste into Crit (again, in that order, hit is worse than mastery is worse than haste is worse than crit).

These rules will help alot of you out. Hit is most important thing in the game until 15 percent, and then after that, Int and Crit are your 2 primary states. Haste will eventually overtake crit, but not untill the next tier of raiding when are crits are 25+ percentage.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]