"Shockadins" dont need a nerf ( why )

86 Blood Elf Warrior
10570
I should just refer you to my previous post on the issue.

Doesn't need a nerf as damage output needed buffed due to the new questing system.


Sounds like you just pwn'd :p
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100 Human Paladin
aus
18820

So I was dinking around on the Beta the other day, and after completing a few quests as Ret, I was given the option on three pieces of gear to choose from when I completed a lot of quests, one for Ret, one for Prot, and one for Holy. So it appears I wouldn't have to level as Holy to gear for Holy.


Rares and trinkets normally present more choices. Note even then you don't have to level as holy, respec->check reward->respec. next quest.
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For those that are obviously blind to this issue is that Shockadins are retarded even at Lv.90/Full Conquest gear.

They have the most damage output of any healer for the lowest amount of base mana cost.
Tie that in with the amount of CC capabilities and healing output.. Yeah Holy Paladins need tuning(preferably before Mists hits the shelves).

Every healer has been balanced and tuned around what they were shooting for. There is no reason why a "shockadin" at Level 90 can spam denounce and out damage high ranked players/classes with almost no effort.
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90 Human Priest
6820
I can understand a nerf to the damage of Holy Shock (I play a Pally too) - but not the amount it was nerfed. What I REALLY don't understand is why so many high Damage/DPS classes get so ticked off when a healer has a few tricks up their sleeves in order to survive and perhaps bite back.

A) Sometimes healers would rather level in their ideal spec without standing around waiting for dungeon queues. I've always disliked the idea that you have to level as a dps 80% of your gametime.
B) Healers are the #1 target in PVP. Why shouldn't we do damage to YOU as well? Our damage will never be on the same bursty scale as a straight DPS class - but it gives a fighting chance.

So, yes again I know HOLY SHOCK was overpowered - but it seems it was scaled a bit too much to be of true use to a Healer that may have 2+ (sometimes 5+) folks on their backside - as well as doing damage while questing.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Why keep Holy Shock as a damage spell in the first place? Do you want us to use it or not? You can't even manage to balance what you want a spell's purpose is... let alone pvp.
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85 Blood Elf Warrior
8810
09/07/2012 07:34 AMPosted by Belïal
Why keep Holy Shock as a damage spell in the first place? Do you want us to use it or not? You can't even manage to balance what you want a spell's purpose is... let alone pvp.


Because it's nice being able to not have to have forty-seven spells on your toolbar when you're a healer that likes to be able to solo quest, for starters, so it's nice to have some spells that do double-duty. Not to mention that shock is just plain fun.

I, for one, am glad that my shockadin from BC is back (even with the new nerfed numbers, because really, the original numbers were absurd), especially given the new quest reward system. I'm perfectly content to have one set of gear, and two sets of talents/glyphs so that I can quest and heal perfectly fine in both roles. I do not now, and never did, want to have to go Ret just to be able to quest.

Thankfully, now questing as a holy paladin is no longer the chore that it was in Cata and Wrath, and is much closer to the smooth-as-butter that it was in BC.

(...and for everyone that complains that it's not fair that holy paladins can do damage in their healing spec, while the other healers can't: Every other current healer has a dps spec they can switch to without having to completely regear to utilize it. Resto druids can go balance, Resto shaman can go elemental, Holy/disc priests can go shadow - all using the same gear they'd use to heal. For a holy paladin to utilize a dps spec for questing, they'd have to acquire and maintain TWO sets of completely different gear. That is infinitely more unfair than being able to do enough damage to solo without it feeling like it's pulling teeth.)
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
18135
09/06/2012 10:53 PMPosted by Vaega
In my case I'm averaging about half the healing I normally did in the same gear for about a third as long. How are the rest of you guys doing?


As far as healing goes, my numbers have gone through the roof. Problem is, I had to reforge to all mastery so like half of that is absorbs now. I'm not complaining.. though I do kind of dislike the fact that I am a disc priest knock off now.. (never cared for disc).

As far as holy shock.. I feel that they could have done something different with the nerf.. such as add in a cast time with the glyph that converts it to damage. Like 1.5 or hell, even 2 second cast. But seriously, I'm quite sick of being forced to play a spec I don't enjoy just to quest or do dailies. I hate ret.. and leveling in prot is about as fun as running splinters up my nails. So please, reconsider the damage output.. this is ridiculous.
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93 Night Elf Death Knight
6210
09/06/2012 02:52 PMPosted by Xaxo
Now, we need to do something about those pesky low level hunters one shoting everyone b4 you can even see them. The rogues too, all of a sudden you're dead.


Hasn't it always been like that?
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90 Orc Death Knight
15810
low level pvp LIVES AGAIN!@
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60 Goblin Death Knight
7500
What is done is done, one shot PVPers will always search for the OP class of the moment, and the whining circle of life will go on and on, rofl!
Edited by Lyonknight on 9/7/2012 9:05 AM PDT
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100 Goblin Warlock
17165
So I was dinking around on the Beta the other day, and after completing a few quests as Ret, I was given the option on three pieces of gear to choose from when I completed a lot of quests, one for Ret, one for Prot, and one for Holy. So it appears I wouldn't have to level as Holy to gear for Holy.

Am I a special snowflake here? Or am I missing something? Do we still HAVE to level as holy and I'm missing something fundamental?


Then that completely refutes what that one pally keeps spouting as to why he/she MUST quest as holy. If you get pally options(3 gear choices) then you do not need to be doing any great damage. The only spec I can see that actually could be seen to need to do decent damage and only from 1 spell is disc(smite).

So yeah quest as ret, dungeon as holy. All is well.
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90 Draenei Paladin
10985
my days of daily farming as holy... are over :l lol, but at least the healing is the same with holy shock.. tired of hitting 20k healing crits -.- yet again i ammmm glyphed for 'shockadin' so eh :P
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12290
In a recent hotfix to the game, we reduced the base damage and increased the spellpower coefficient of Holy Shock.

We were seeing extremely high base damage at low levels, and made the change in such a way that it only has a moderate impact on characters at or near level 85.

By far, most of our effort is currently on level-90 balance, because that’s what’s important to most players. However, it’s not the only thing that’s important. We’re seeing some Mists of Pandaria changes causing a few balance problems at lower levels, especially in PvP. We’re working on fixing all such imbalances, and this is just the first of many changes. If you’re interested in discussing similar issues, I’ve just started [url="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6515991780"]a new thread about it them our class balance forum[/url].

Details:
  • At level 10, Holy Shock damage has been reduced by 85%.
  • At level 85, with LFR gear, Holy Shock damage has been reduced by 39%.
  • At level 90, with normal raid gear, Holy Shock damage will be approximately equal.


The healing component of Holy Shock is unchanged.


This must have changed twice, because I was doing far less damage than 39% when the "fix" was first applied.

To anyone disputing his numbers, he is 100% correct. I was pulling 65k crits, 32k standard damage, and now after this (second?) patch, I'm doing 21k standard, 43k crits. Right in 39%!

This is with the glyph, both times.

This still hits like a wet noodle in pvp though, as with base resil + gear resil I'm hitting for pathetic numbers like 5k base, 11k crit.
Edited by Ozrek on 9/7/2012 9:35 AM PDT
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100 Goblin Warlock
17165
If dps shouldn't be able to solo a healer, then a healer shouldn't be able to solo a dps. It should be a stalemate between dps's passive healing and a healer's dps.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12290
^^ We were out of line. Look no further than here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5QfsxviJHI

32k insta crits on high resil players, and I can heal myself insanely? We were OP. I agree though, other classes are doing similar if not worse damage. We're targeted because we are able to heal ourselves and do insane damage :P
Edited by Ozrek on 9/7/2012 9:59 AM PDT
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90 Dwarf Paladin
9810
09/07/2012 09:46 AMPosted by Purebalance
If dps shouldn't be able to solo a healer, then a healer shouldn't be able to solo a dps. It should be a stalemate between dps's passive healing and a healer's dps.


So why is it not current like this in game? When was the last time you saw a Holy Pally beat a Lock?
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90 Draenei Paladin
3100
09/06/2012 02:52 PMPosted by Xaxo
Now, we need to do something about those pesky low level hunters one shoting everyone b4 you can even see them. The rogues too, all of a sudden you're dead.

That right there is why I ignore PvP in this game.
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87 Blood Elf Death Knight
10015
ok here is something for you Blizzard .. yes Holy shock needed to be nerfed a little BUT not 90% of its damage . YOU at blizzard wanted people to play holy and gave players the HOLY ONLY glyphs just so they could do healing OR be a caster dps. I liked that idea. I love holy as a caster dps and dont care for others who say "If your holy then you are just a healer" This game was on its way to letting the players have more choice's on how to spec and play but because of stuff like this you are once again telling players what to play and how to do it .. this isnt a job this is a game i want to do whatever i want to do and make it work. So yes by all means nerf Holy shock AND PENANCE ! but not to the degree of what you have done already to shock. That or make Denounce hit harder and maybe nerf the effect bc as it is now a holy paly can NOT solo his quests and that makes what you all said before a lie. All healers were to be able to solo quests and what not.. For shame on you blizzard ..
Edited by Shinigamí on 9/7/2012 10:39 AM PDT
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92 Blood Elf Paladin
8555
09/07/2012 09:46 AMPosted by Purebalance
If dps shouldn't be able to solo a healer, then a healer shouldn't be able to solo a dps. It should be a stalemate between dps's passive healing and a healer's dps.


if a dps can solo a healer, then a healer should be able to solo a dps. it is simply a matter of who lasts longer. the problem is, most dps classes have *unlimited* resources to do damage with. in mop, mana is *painfully* limited. ergo, we should nerf/remove self heals on all dps classes to make up for healers not being able to do damage.
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