Moonfarespam: The Moonkin PvE Guide (5.2)

90 Troll Druid
11620
Hurricane and Astral Storm seem to update dynamically--testing later tonight; so recasting Hurricane may just be a waste of a DOT tick. I would hope it does, as it's a very costly spell to be forced to recast.

10/19/2012 02:25 PMPosted by Eluial
So, for now it's probably not a big deal. I think all the conflicting reports just go to show that haste and crit are pretty close for the time being. But I think at higher gear (and haste) levels, crit really does pull far, far ahead.

Crit, as a stat, gets better as gear goes up for a simple reason: It just keeps going up, and up. Having 33% raid-buff Crit means your DOTs should be procc'ing a SS every 6sec (1/3 should crit, 3/10 crits proc SS (10.5% effective proc rate), 2 dots rolling at standard 2sec intervals (2 DOTs / DOTtickTime(2) = 1tps)). Comes out to ~12 ticks before you should get between procs (10.5/2 = ~5sec, then factor GCD usage, 5.5sec, and factor the refresh period on the other side -- 6sec.). So you're active proc-rate of SS with 33% active crit = SS every 6sec, effectively, could be better or worse. And if my memory is correct: [Starsurge] > [Wrath x2]

From what I've read and experienced, Haste and Crit are very close, but are situational.

Single-Target = Haste; (Feng)
Multi-Target = Crit (All MV bosses, omit Feng)

I run Crit because I don't like re-gemming/forging for a boss we have on farm. YMMV
Edited by Cyous on 10/19/2012 3:28 PM PDT
90 Troll Druid
11445
I think that we also won't want too much haste. At a certain point, it stops helping as much due to us not being able to have 100% eclipse uptime during incarnation(provided that you are running incarnation, which you should be). I have a feeling that we will probably be holding steady to the 5273 breakpoint even as we gear up, maybe 8089 in T14 Heroic gear. After that mastery should be a better second stat and crit of course will still be the best.
Edited by Tagartou on 10/19/2012 10:49 PM PDT
90 Worgen Druid
10200
I'm just having a really hard time giving up my emotional attachment to haste. :(
90 Worgen Druid
10200
Fight:
1) Starfall
2) MF/SF (Macro'd)
3) Starsurge
4) Starfire: for Solar Eclipse
5) Mushrooms
6) Solar Eclipse rotation
7) When out of Solar Macro: Celestial Alignment; Chosen of Elune; Natures Vigil; Mirror Images
8) wrath to Lunar
9) Lunar Eclipse
10) When boss gets to 25% I recast Macro (step 6) and use my pot
Rinse wash repeat...


Your pre-fight stuff is all fine. If tank threat at the start of a fight is a problem for your guild, then mirror images are fine, but just be aware they don't really add a lot of damage. Using a damage reduction cooldown (DK, rogue, lock) might be a better idea for progression content.

For your rotation:
1) Good
2) Bad. You're not in eclipse yet. Just wait til you are. And why macro'd? They should have separate keybinds.
3) Bad. Use a wrath to get to eclipse and save that SS for when you're in eclipse. It will hit much, much harder.
4) OK... but you should really be using Incarnation and NV right here.
5) Bad. Why are you using them in lunar? Use them during solar, or better yet, during CA when all your damage CDs are up.
6) OK, but you shouldn't be in solar yet, because....
7) Bad bad bad bad BAD! Always use Inc/NC during lunar, and always use CA when you get out of lunar and and NEVER pop all 3 at the exact same time. It should be ((lunar)) --> Inc/NV --> progress through lunar --> ((lunar ends)) --> CA
8) OK
9) OK
10) This is going to be really fight dependent. Sometimes you want to use it as soon as it's back up and you get to lunar again, and sometimes you want to save it for hero or the burn phase or whatever.

For example, Garajal is a 6 min fight. That means that you're only going to be able to use your CDs twice, no matter what you do. In that case, you want to open up with them, and then save them until the burn phase when hero is used. Feng, on the other hand, can be much longer. You might be able to use your CDs 3 times if you time it right. Therefore, you want to use them as frequently as possible to squeeze that extra one in there.

There's a rotation section in the sticky. I suggest you check it out. It's broken down step-by-step, similar to what you wrote here, and there's lots of discussion about when you should be using which CDs.
10/22/2012 08:36 AMPosted by Skyotter
2) Astral Communion to 1 tic before solar


Why do you want to start the fight in solar? The only thing that's getting buffed in your rotation is mushrooms and you can wait to blow them up when you do get to Solar (or after CA is popped, when all three buffs should be active)
You should also pop your CDs as quickly as possible to take advantage of the pre-pot so starting in Lunar for the increased single-target damage of Starfire vs Wrath + triple-starfall vs double is better.

@Eluial,

10/23/2012 11:41 AMPosted by Eluial
5) Bad. Why are you using them in lunar?

The opening rotation he posted is similar to the sticky except he starts in Solar
90 Troll Druid
7605
10/19/2012 03:23 PMPosted by Cyous
Hurricane and Astral Storm seem to update dynamically--testing later tonight; so recasting Hurricane may just be a waste of a DOT tick. I would hope it does, as it's a very costly spell to be forced to recast


I'm trying this (hurricane-ing at 1 sec of Nature's grace) and I still get my full 12 ticks of hurricane, and the cast time remains at 8.7 secs for me, that of a Nature's grace buffed hurricane. Or could it be that it does change and quartz simply doesn't reflect it? I know of no other way reliable to monitor cast times besides quartz.
90 Worgen Druid
10200
10/23/2012 07:38 PMPosted by Aurivan
The opening rotation he posted is similar to the sticky except he starts in Solar

I saw he said that but I assumed he meant lunar because of the rest of the description of the rotation. But now I think I'm extra confused because he says SS and then starfire to get to solar.

I think I totally misunderstood. It's still very wrong.
90 Worgen Druid
10200
GUYS I THINK WE'RE GETTING GLYPH OF FOCUS BACK (without the extra damage... BUT STILL!!!!)

OK, with that out of the way,

10/24/2012 06:05 AMPosted by Skyotter
MF/SF macro'd what would you suggest I do to keep my button layout similar?

You can try doing a modifier macro, where say, MF is bound to 1, then SnF is shift-1. That would look something like

#showtooltip
/cast [mod] Sunfire; Moonfire

10/24/2012 06:05 AMPosted by Skyotter
So when my CD's are ready again towards the end and Hero/TW/Lust/Ancient Hysteria (BM hunters) is popped, what do I do there? Should I cast Inc/NV, or CA, or is it situational as to where you are on the rotation?

This is actually something I've been struggling with, because every so often it happens that they pop hero right when I exit lunar or something. I think if it's that poorly timed, I go ahead and use them all in solar (though when I get to CA, I still spam starfire). If I'm like, mid-solar when it's popped I'll just try to power through to lunar.

10/24/2012 06:05 AMPosted by Skyotter
And is my potion more beneficial at the beginning of Incarnation/Nature's Vigil and Hero, or have Inc/NV, CA, and hero overlapping when I use it?

It's definitely much better to time your 2nd potion with your CDs, even if they aren't fully covered by hero. I guess a priority for 2nd potion use would be
CDs + hero > CDs alone > hero alone
90 Troll Druid
11350
Is it worth simultaneously casting Incarnation and CA in order to benefit from Bloodlust as much as possible? Found this came up occasionally, when my CDs were coming up right as we Lusted.
Edited by Melete on 10/25/2012 7:58 AM PDT
90 Worgen Druid
10200
10/24/2012 07:49 PMPosted by Melete
Is it worth simultaneously casting Incarnation and CA in order to benefit from Bloodlust as much as possible? Found this came up occasionally, when my CDs were coming up right as we Lusted.

You mean, at the same time, instead of incarnation through eclipse, and then CA at the end of eclipse? Because if done right, your inc and CA should overlap anyway. If you use Inc at the start of CA, you waste half your Inc uptime.

So, there are some awkward places you can be on your eclipse bar when BL is popped. Usually it's best to either just use Inc where you are, or to power through to the next eclipse. It's not really a very good idea to use Inc at the beginning of CA.

When BL is popped and you're at:

L-->--|-----S
use Inc immediately, then CA when you exit lunar

L-----|-->--S
use Inc with solar, and CA at the end of solar. Still spam starfire when you're in CA.

L-----|--<--S or L--<--|-----S
Power through to lunar and use Inc at lunar, CA at the end of lunar.
90 Worgen Druid
6550
Is it worth simultaneously casting Incarnation and CA in order to benefit from Bloodlust as much as possible? Found this came up occasionally, when my CDs were coming up right as we Lusted.

You mean, at the same time, instead of incarnation through eclipse, and then CA at the end of eclipse? Because if done right, your inc and CA should overlap anyway. If you use Inc at the start of CA, you waste half your Inc uptime.

So, there are some awkward places you can be on your eclipse bar when BL is popped. Usually it's best to either just use Inc where you are, or to power through to the next eclipse. It's not really a very good idea to use Inc at the beginning of CA.

When BL is popped and you're at:

L-->--|-----S
use Inc immediately, then CA when you exit lunar

L-----|-->--S
use Inc with solar, and CA at the end of solar. Still spam starfire when you're in CA.

L-----|--<--S or L--<--|-----S
Power through to lunar and use Inc at lunar, CA at the end of lunar.


This was extremely helpful. Currently I'm starting with 75% lunar and using astral near the beginning of the pull to get into lunar. I immediately activate both inc. and and NV along with prepot and then sunfire > moonfire > starfall > starsurge > Starfire. Leaving eclipse I CA and continue starfire/starsurge reapplying the dots when they fall off and activating starfall again. I continue to starfire after the cooldowns drop going into solar eclipse, start wrath/starsurge, and reapplying the dots when they drop. From there I just preceed with normal rotation. Is that all correct or is something out of order?

It's pretty amazing opening burst. On the target dummy I spike to 80k starting out then fall to a sustained 50k. Our aoe is rather annoying/confusing and for the most part it seems that 4+ targets solar eclipse hurricane is optimal and mushrooms only worthwhile is preplaced. I'm not sure how worthwhile dotting is passed 3 targets unless you are using CA. Does balance suffer more than most classes when it comes to movement? Losing NG 15% haste time to movement really hurts dps and makes getting into the next eclipse feel very tedious while lunar showers moonfire/sunfire spam on the move seems kind of awful if you can't get lucky shooting stars procs.

Edit: Reading over your rotation section I seem to have gotten it all correct but I'm not going to edit it even if I feel foolish. Just seems like heavy movement fights really wreck balance with how badly it needs to cast and our aoe seems very clunky.
Edited by Stratis on 10/27/2012 5:43 AM PDT
90 Troll Druid
7605
10/27/2012 05:36 AMPosted by Stratis
Leaving eclipse I CA and continue starfire/starsurge reapplying the dots when they fall off and activating starfall again.


In most cases you will apply dots twice during CA, the second time being right towards the end, so the first time you apply them may as well be right as you pop CA.

Also it is worth noting that there will be a point into your CA (1.5-2.0s for me) where its duration left won't be enough to squeeze in a buffed starfire, but enough for a buffed wrath. That's when you swap to wrath instead, as an eclipsed, NV/INC buffed wrath >>>> an uneclipsed/unbuffed starfire. There's also a point where you'll be able to cast either just 1 more buffed starfire, or two more wraths (3.0-3.5s). Here I go with the wraths instead. You get to your next eclipse 1 wrath cast later, but a nuke buffed by all your cds should be well worth it.

10/27/2012 05:36 AMPosted by Stratis
Currently I'm starting with 75% lunar and using astral near the beginning of the pull to get into lunar. I immediately activate both inc. and and NV along with prepot and then sunfire > moonfire > starfall > starsurge > Starfire.


Actually the very first thing you should do is a starfall at 75 pre-lunar energy. This is because its cd resets once you enter lunar, so it is essentially free. What you should then use to enter lunar is wrath. This way you cast three starfalls in your opening burst instead of two. Make sure you only cast the next starfall once the duration on the current one is < 1.0s, otherwise you lose some stars. The rest seems good :D

As for movement, I also definitely seem to suffer from it more than the rest of the ranged in my raid. Moonfire spam takes too long to ramp up, I find it often doesn't even fully stack before moseperiods of movement end. Our playstyle is one which requires steadily and swiftly transitioning between Eclipses to keep our haste buff up for as long as possible, and movement doesn't help that =/ This is where stuff like minimizing movement and preparing for movement come into play so we suffer from it as little as possible, and it's an area I'm still practising in msv.
Edited by Velaniz on 10/27/2012 6:36 AM PDT
90 Troll Druid
11620
Hurray, Spirit Kings down 65sec after the Berserk!

Onwards to Elegon, the "gimme lewt" boss of this tier!

Might start doing videos if there's enough interest. Given I do make these informative videos, what would you like...:
<><> 25man Heroic Progression <><>
--- Vent/Mumble for Encounter?
--- Commentary (Pre-pull Setup, Cooldown Usage, General Strategy tips, Management of Mechanics)?
--- Anything not listed?
Edited by Cyous on 10/27/2012 1:37 PM PDT
90 Tauren Druid
16470
I'm so jelly but grats Cyous! My group has stopped heroic progression :( The raid leader hasn't even said if we are ever going back to it. I guess we are just waiting for everyone to gear up so they can carry me xD

I feel like a baddie cause I can't pull the numbers to help the group. I have the utilities for the fights but I guess in 10 mans it's more about pushing the numbers then typhooning or warstompping or even offhealing at the right times.

:WTB heroic 10 man raiding vids with moonkin POV :P
Edited by Skychase on 10/27/2012 6:07 PM PDT
90 Troll Druid
11620
I'm so jelly but grats Cyous! My group has stopped heroic progression :( The raid leader hasn't even said if we are ever going back to it. I guess we are just waiting for everyone to gear up so they can carry me xD

D: Why are you jelly? We had ~200 attempts!

I see you're working on Feng (based on your achievements). Just be sure to do the absolute minimum effort in terms of movement. I actually stand ~7-8 yards away from the stacked group when I have Resonance. For Fire Phase, we Lust and try to only get 2 Draw Flame phases i think. For Shield PHase, ranged and healers stack in middle and everyone AOEs the adds; Druids using Vortex to control the adds and DK's AOE grip to make the initial stack perfect. For Thunderfists, we stack in melee and stun the boss via stealing Lightning Fists. We do take any Earthquake damage. It's the same for 10man and 25man, Feng is more of a mechanical fight; just try your best!
90 Worgen Druid
10200
:WTB heroic 10 man raiding vids with moonkin POV :P

Well, not sure when that's gonna be, tbh. On a 2 night a week schedule we're going to be hard pressed to clear everything on reg once all the other raids are out (are they both coming out tomorrow, or just one?).

Hopefully we'll have at least H dog council next week, since this week the combo of chains + ice + purple swirlies just kicked our asses. But we may choose to focus on the new raid instead. Dunno.
This topic has reached its post limit. You may no longer post or reply to posts for this topic.

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]