Moonfarespam: The Moonkin PvE Guide (5.2)

90 Troll Druid
11620
10/29/2012 10:44 AMPosted by Eluial
(are they both coming out tomorrow, or just one?).

Heart of Fear comes out tomorrow (Tuesday).
2 weeks alter, Terrace of the Endless Spring is opened.
100 Tauren Druid
22635
So... heroic 10-man Elegon. Bleeeh.

I can't seem to reliably last longer than 2-3 Charge waves. I'm assigned to my own add with a floater helper (tank). The problem is due to our raid DPS, 90% of the time I'm heading towards or just entering Solar Eclipse by the time the adds pop up. I roll DoTs on the boss at all times for SS procs.

-- First wave is okay, sometimes it's close when Wrath doesn't crit at all. I use AS before this wave to ensure my Eclipse and pre-plant mushrooms for some extra damage on all three adds. I make sure that Nature's Grace is up as well.

-- Second wave is dicey because I'm usually just exiting Solar by the time they pop. Depending on how things go, I can sometimes hit Lunar. Sometimes I run out of time and get stuck mid-Eclipse.

-- Third wave I nuke with NG'ed Starfire and hope to god I get SS procs and/or crits. I try to save Starfall for waves 4 or 5. Starfire hits like a truck but even with my haste build it's sloooow.

(I've begun saving Nature's Vigil for the 3rd or 4th wave, because it appears that some moonkin do this.)

-- Fourth wave I often don't have time to AS, NG has usually worn off, and I'm stuck barely exiting Lunar. This is where I crash and burn most the time.

I'm usually toast on that 3rd or 4th wave. I try to Astral Communion as quickly as possible when the Charges are down, but sometimes I'm caught out of Eclipse entirely, and depending on the wave, I cannot afford to channel and lose a nuke cast on the add.

I'm really frustrated with this because I feel that Solar Eclipse is just completely screwing me over. All because the boss hits 85% and adds pop roughly when I'm exiting Lunar. The only way I can really fix this is to AS before the transition and stop boss damage for 8-12 seconds, which I really don't think we can afford with the Berserk timer?

It's been suggested to me to save ALL of my CDs until the add phases, I have a hunch that this wouldn't work out at all but I'm willing to try it :P Considering that balance druid damage is designed around using our CDs on the main target, I don't know how my actual boss damage would look if I went this route.

I've looked through some top 10-man heroic logs and it seems like the European moonkins are assigned to multidotting the Charges and nuking stragglers with SS. I'm almost wondering if this would work for my raid, but I really don't know.
90 Worgen Druid
10200
Tree, do you guys have a lock? Our lock does something I don't quite understand that spreads all his dots and it's pretty amazing. We're only on reg, but we easily get 5 waves every time (and our raid DPS frankly isn't that high). I can ask him what it is he does if you guys have a lock.
100 Tauren Druid
22635
10/30/2012 12:23 PMPosted by Eluial
Tree, do you guys have a lock? Our lock does something I don't quite understand that spreads all his dots and it's pretty amazing. We're only on reg, but we easily get 5 waves every time (and our raid DPS frankly isn't that high). I can ask him what it is he does if you guys have a lock.

We do, we also normally have a shadow priest (which may be a game changer) but he wasn't able to attend our attempts due to the hurricane. I've been wondering if we should have me/lock/priest on one side and just dot the heck out of everything.

Currently our setup is fury warrior, me, fire mage, prot paladin, holy paladin. Other side is brewmaster, mistweaver, warlock, enhancement shaman, elemental shaman. Our elemental shaman subbed in for the priest and is a tad undergeared at the moment, but the other side still had no trouble with their waves.

I feel dumb about this because on normal mode the Charges are a joke. I slip up sometimes but can otherwise also easily go 5 waves without blowing potions or CDs. I'll have to ask our warlock if anything can be done with his DoTs that he isn't already doing.
100 Worgen Druid
19000
Eluial is right, affliction locks basically trivialize energy charges. I don't know much about herioc 10 man elegon, but I am sure that your warlock using this trick would ensure you of killing charges easily. The way to do this is to save 1 soul shard for the transition right before the energy charges spawn. When there is about 1.5 secs left on the initial charge, he should soul burn and cast seeds of corruption. All 3 of his dots should still be rolling on the boss so that the SoC will explode within 0.5 secs of it landing, this would cause corruption to spread to all adds. After that, if all 3 DoTs are still in elegon, he just spams SoC on Elegon and stays near the edge such that by the time he is finished casting SoC the previous one would have already exploded. This is just rinse and repeat for each phase, except for that he should soulburn SoC during the 3 sec channel before the 2nd,3rd,4th.... waves come out. Since corruption should be on all 6 adds, he should always have soulshards available so soul shard->soul swap could easily reapply all dots. For this, his 6th tier glyph should be Mannoth's Fury.

To see how OP it is, we did 10 man normal on our alts and pushed 6 waves/ 5 waves w/ no pots just using 2 afflic locks: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/gr9ofzv7hy4leoqf/analyze/dd/source/?s=13632&e=14177&target=103

Also, just make you don't get caught out of an eclipse in the later waves and I always make sure DoTs are rolling on Elegon for that nice instant starsurge proc.

Edit: For our 25 man, we use stormlash totems/warrior banners/pots for 4th and 5th wave, not sure how important that would be for 10 man, but any damage helps.
Edited by Kenny on 10/30/2012 10:03 PM PDT
90 Troll Druid
11350
Can someone explain Int vs Crit gemming for me?

Very good druids are gemming both things. Simcraft tools suggest that Int is better. I'm not sure what to gem.
90 Worgen Druid
10200
Again, this is only on reg, so I don't know how viable this is for heroic, but I actually try not to hardcast at all in between the waves. I spend the time setting down shrooms and dot spamming elegon. If enrage timer is tight enough that the DPS time on elegon is necessary, then that might not work, but it's an option to save you a little bit of reaction time (not being in the middle of a nuke) and to also keep your eclipse bar from moving too much. Also, I usually dot up the mind and the one next to me with just the eclipsed dot. So it's still 2 extra dots, but a little more damage and eclipsed + uneclipsed. And the DK tank, who is pretty high DPS, helps out on mine (my poor ego... but at least it gets dead).

Can someone explain Int vs Crit gemming for me?

Very good druids are gemming both things. Simcraft tools suggest that Int is better. I'm not sure what to gem.

I'd suggest reading up on it in the EJ guide thread. But basically, at current gear levels, secondary stats outperform HALF int.

For red gem slots, you have 2 options (well, technically, 3, but pure int gems are very inferior to anything with a secondary stat on it):
int/X
expertise/X
Where X is either haste or crit, depending on your current needs.

For as long as getting hit capped is preventing you from having crit on every single piece of gear, then exp/X gems are going to be superior, because every point of exp (hit) is theoretically equivalent to a point of crit (because of reforging). And since you're getting 2x more exp (or crit) than int from the gem, the double secondary stat has a better payoff.

This will change at higher gear levels due to needing fewer hit items to get hit capped.

The exception to not gemming pure int is with JC gems. Since the secondary stat gems are only 1.5x the primary stats, it's still better to use the Brilliant JC gems.
90 Troll Druid
11350
So why are some very top end druids (talking World 50 guilds, plus the top few WOL parses) using pure int gems for reds? Hamlet is also using pure reds as well, and I'm guessing he has theory down fairly well.

The community doesn't always follow what is theorycrafted, but it's still curious that there's a lot of disagreement among people who tend to put a lot of effort into what they're doing.

And unless I'm mistaken WC is generally showing secondaries at less than 1/2 Int. SimC obviously is as well, but it's less likely to be accurate.
100 Troll Druid
11750
10/31/2012 01:07 AMPosted by Melete
So why are some very top end druids (talking World 50 guilds, plus the top few WOL parses) using pure int gems for reds? Hamlet is also using pure reds as well, and I'm guessing he has theory down fairly well.
Blahblahblah conspiracy theories about logging off in wrong gems/chants/specs/forging. It actually does happen, basically don't trust anything from the armories of people in world 50 guilds. Either they are adjusting for a specific fight or they are trying to throw off competition.
90 Worgen Druid
10200
10/31/2012 01:07 AMPosted by Melete
Hamlet is also using pure reds as well, and I'm guessing he has theory down fairly well.

Not sure why that is, since he's the main one that was advocating the half gem theory anyway. You'd have to ask him. But I'm guessing it has something to do with his particular gear level and the fact that he's not really raiding very seriously. If you look at tecton's armory, he's gemming mostly secondary stats the same way I am.

The long and short of it is, if [insert your favorite theorycrafting program here] is telling you to do something in particular, then go ahead and do that because it's probably the right thing to do* for your gear level and setup.

*Assuming you're configuring everything right and know the nuances of the program you're using.
100 Worgen Druid
13625
10/31/2012 01:07 AMPosted by Melete
So why are some very top end druids (talking World 50 guilds, plus the top few WOL parses) using pure int gems for reds? Hamlet is also using pure reds as well, and I'm guessing he has theory down fairly well.


I looked through quite a few top parsing druids, along with some I know. Some are gemming pure int for reds, others are doing Int/Crit. There's no clear-cut gemming strat that seems to come out on top. Looking like it's just a toss up between them.
90 Worgen Druid
10200
Your second druid or did you have to change your name, Dag?

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone else was having starfall issues in HoF, specifically in the first boss's room. 2 times we had extra mobs come (well, one of those times it was the boss) without intentionally pulling them. It looked like starfall was hitting them, but I'm not sure if someone face pulled and then my starfall hit them, or if it was the starfall that caused the pull in the first place.
100 Worgen Druid
13625
11/01/2012 12:19 PMPosted by Eluial
Your second druid or did you have to change your name, Dag?


Name change. Got my old name back from my hunter. I was tired of being called Fagglet. xP

11/01/2012 12:19 PMPosted by Eluial
Anyway, I was wondering if anyone else was having starfall issues in HoF, specifically in the first boss's room.


I didn't notice anything out of the usual. I know someone face pulled first boss while we killed trash, somehow. Wasn't my starfall though.
90 Troll Druid
8995
Eluial, any updated tier tips for Heart of Fear?
90 Worgen Druid
10200
11/01/2012 07:10 PMPosted by Datvoodoomon
Eluial, any updated tier tips for Heart of Fear?

Hrm... well, we only killed the first guy and put in some attempts on the second guy.

For the first guy, zorlok, definitely stuck with the DK symbiosis. The two stampeding roar glyphs are also really good here. This won't apply to most people, but at the start of the fight, when our tank is counting down, I hit darkflight at 2, pot at 1. That way I get to the platform faster (helps that our tank is also worgen so I usually didn't get there ahead of him by too much). I use the normal Inc/NV build, use them at the start of the fight, and then saved them for P2 heroism. Used Stamp Roar for the 1st platform switch. I ended up spamming MF/SnF instead of placing shrooms for the flying discs, since I needed my mouse to navigate them properly. I wasn't especially pleased with my DPS, but I was also assigned to the 3rd bubble (the one that's farthest away) and I ended up having to do a fair amount of moving/healing when hero was used in P2. Our guild's strat definitely involved more movement than I think is strictly necessary.

For the 2nd guy, Blade Lord, I'm still a bit at a loss. I played with different symbiosis targets a bit. Tried intervene and didn't like it, and I ended up sticking with unending resolve (lock). AMS isn't going to do a whole lot of good here since most of the magic is physical (might help in P2 though). I also played around with wild charge instead of feline swiftness, but I think FS will be really crutch in P2. Nothing too special here. Reduce movement as much as possible, pay attention and get to where you need to be ASAP. We only made it to P2 once, and we wiped because the damage was so unexpected. Again, used SR here to help everyone move around a little faster. I think it helps a lot. I used my CDs on CD.

Beyond that, hopefully someone else who is more progressed can provide some input.
90 Troll Druid
11620
11/01/2012 09:08 PMPosted by Eluial
Beyond that, hopefully someone else who is more progressed can provide some input.

Sure.

Boss #1 - You'll use you're CDs twice (opener, Bloodlust). Don't pop Starfall until you get on the first platform.

Boss #2 - Position yourself next to a wall. Hold your opener for a few seconds while the boss gets positioned, if needed. Don't position yourself in the middle. Your raid should be moving after tornadoes get too clustered. Depending how long your encounter lasts, you may use cooldowns 3 times (opener, midfight, final push[<10%]). I strongly suggest you use this macro and help healers while in Phase 2 (Wind Gale phase):
#showtooltip
/use [@mouseover,help,nodead][help,nodead][@player] Rejuvenation


Boss #3 - Keep non-focused legs DOT'd, but be sure to focus the nearest leg while being inside the buff-zone. You'll use cooldowns twice, i think, so use the opener to DOT up as many legs as possible, including the boss, then again during Bloodlust, but focus on the boss and the nearest leg, but be sure to dot any "low HP" legs.

Boss #4 - Open in Solar Eclipse ad AOE. AOE. CA + Multi-DOT. AOE. AOE. AOE. AOE. Oh, and don't forget to AOE. Did I mention AOE? AOE. I herd u liek AOE, so we gave you AOE so you can AOE while you AOE ( =^ 3^=) .

That's all I've downed so far.
90 Night Elf Druid
11450
Hello fellow owls.

First of all Eluial and others that are contributing to this thread, thank you very much. This is a great compendium of useful information and I hope to collaborate with you all as this thread stays updated.

As for my question, I have a trinket conundrum and I'm not quite sure which to decide on.

I just acquired Relic of Yu'lon and I'm not sure which of the following two to use. I'm currently deciding between Flashfrozen Resin Globule and the LFR version of Light of the Cosmos.

SimulationCraft puts the Light of the Cosmos at about 1500 higher DPS, but I'm not sure that it's properly using the Flashfrozen Resin Globule with CA in its sims. I ran some self-buffed dummy tests with both and they seemed to be nearly the same.

Can anybody here definitively tell me if one of those is better than the other? The rare trinket does have a higher average int gain (1273.77 int) over the rare (587.77 int if you pop every 3 minutes with a CA), but I believe that if I use the rare trinket and time it with CA each time that's popped, that it may provide a better overall DPS boost than using the epic one which procs less int passively.

EDIT: Of course the item links are displaying incorrect values. If needed, links to each item with proper values can be found here:

http://www.wowdb.com/items/81263-flashfrozen-resin-globule

and here:

http://www.wowdb.com/items/86792-light-of-the-cosmos
Edited by Aquilae on 11/4/2012 1:48 AM PDT
90 Worgen Druid
10200
The best way to evaluate this is to use wrathcalcs. A pure guess would be to replace the resin globule, though.

It's going to be a bit of a pain, but here's how you do it. Replace one of the trinkets, go over to mr robot (or whatever other reforging tool you use) and figure out your reforges, then enter that into wrathcalcs. You can save the profile to look at again later. Then, replace the other trinket, fix your reforges, and plug into wrathcalcs again. See which one gives you the most DPS.

Your ilvl is pretty high, so I doubt that losing the hit from resin globule is going to hurt too you much, but you're right that the synergy with that trinket and our CDs is great. However, I find that the DMC and LotC procs line up together quite frequently, which is nice for getting super buffed dots up.
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