MoP Enchanting vs Runeforging

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90 Draenei Priest
11305
Reading over the weapon enchants for MoP got me thinking...

Fallen Crusader gives a chance for 3% healing and 15% Strength boost,

Sword Shattering gives 4% parry, and is generally a better option for tanking right now

The Dancing Steel enchant gives a strength boost of 1650

The Windsong enchant gives 1500 mastery

I think that Fallen Crusader will pull ahead as the dps go-to once you are over 11000 strength, but prior to that the straight dps increase would be Dancing Steel.

Windsong seems like it would be a better tank option across the board since it will increase the shield from Death Strike.

Given this I think it may be time for at minimum a new tanking Runeforge, but what does the community at large think about these numbers?
90 Human Death Knight
7615
Or maybe just improve the current reforges.
90 Draenei Death Knight
15410
Keep in mind both of those enchants are a 1ppm format. So at least in regards to tanking it's a 1ppm enchant versus two tanking statics. 4% parry that is above DR versus 1500 mastery proc that may or may not be there. Fallen Crusader is also 1ppm but it is also a multiplier. Fallen Crusader gives you more strength based on your strength as a whole. So for example flasks and food giving you strength are also multiplied. So lets say Fallen Crusader procs while they also had Pillar of Frost up then they'd have a ton more overall.

So a proc that gives you 1650 strength? That is equal to Crusader when you have 11,000 strength mid a fight. Which will easily be obtainable by then to the point of surpassing it. Consider the fact that just between heroic tier 13 versus the base tier 14? Almost 400 strength per slot just on tier not including weapons, trinkets and so on. This all does not include the new buffs from food and flasks that will push you quickly above the point where Crusader is best.
90 Human Death Knight
7615
For DW purposes. Fallen of the Crusader on MH and Dancing Steel on OF. It will rock?
90 Orc Death Knight
7780
Actually crusader is, oh wait...

Keep in mind both of those enchants are a 1ppm format. So at least in regards to tanking it's a 1ppm enchant versus two tanking statics. 4% parry that is above DR versus 1500 mastery proc that may or may not be there. Fallen Crusader is also 1ppm but it is also a multiplier. Fallen Crusader gives you more strength based on your strength as a whole. So for example flasks and food giving you strength are also multiplied. So lets say Fallen Crusader procs while they also had Pillar of Frost up then they'd have a ton more overall.

So a proc that gives you 1650 strength? That is equal to Crusader when you have 11,000 strength mid a fight. Which will easily be obtainable by then to the point of surpassing it. Consider the fact that just between heroic tier 13 versus the base tier 14? Almost 400 strength per slot just on tier not including weapons, trinkets and so on. This all does not include the new buffs from food and flasks that will push you quickly above the point where Crusader is best.


This :) Well said.
90 Gnome Death Knight
9190
I have't played the beta much so if this is wrong I apologize, but if the beginning of MoP is anything like the beginning of cata (ie, epic enchanting mats extremely hard to get, and extremely expensive) then I won't even be considering the epic weapon enchants.
90 Draenei Priest
11305
@Driver : Razorice on mh, fallen on oh currently, I don't know that the extra strength proc would be more of a benefit than the constant frost damage bonus

@Thread : Obviously full t14 negates this argument, but prior to that do the enchants win out? Say leveling you get a weapon that can take the enchant, would you be better off with the enchant and holding on to the weapon for a couple of levels or upgrade as soon as you can and just runeforge every time?

side note, I thought the proc rate was higher on the enchants, 1ppm does change it a bit but it does beg the question.

The other runeforges really do serve no purpose at this point though, no dw tanking so nerubian, swordbreaking and spellbreaking are worthless and lichbane has pretty much always been worthless.
90 Tauren Death Knight
12465
SSG IS FOR ME
90 Human Death Knight
7615
@Driver : Razorice on mh, fallen on oh currently, I don't know that the extra strength proc would be more of a benefit than the constant frost damage bonus

@Thread : Obviously full t14 negates this argument, but prior to that do the enchants win out? Say leveling you get a weapon that can take the enchant, would you be better off with the enchant and holding on to the weapon for a couple of levels or upgrade as soon as you can and just runeforge every time?

side note, I thought the proc rate was higher on the enchants, 1ppm does change it a bit but it does beg the question.

The other runeforges really do serve no purpose at this point though, no dw tanking so nerubian, swordbreaking and spellbreaking are worthless and lichbane has pretty much always been worthless.


PvE-wise Razorice is much better but for PvP when u have to switch targets ASAP...
90 Draenei Death Knight
15410
The 1ppm parts was posted by the devs. Take that for what you will.
90 Draenei Death Knight
11090
09/06/2012 12:56 AMPosted by Ismene
The Windsong enchant gives 1500 mastery


4% parry with 100% uptime is stronger than 1500 mastery rating even with 100% uptime.
Edited by Euliat on 9/6/2012 12:37 PM PDT
90 Draenei Death Knight
15410
The Windsong enchant gives 1500 mastery


4% parry with 100% uptime is stronger than 1500 mastery rating even with 100% uptime.


Mastery procs are okay but not something to truly depend on. Partly why SSV was not hated trinket wise but was behind other trinket options if you could get your hands on a trinket like Indom which I still don't have >.<
Edited by Tor on 9/6/2012 12:45 PM PDT
100 Human Death Knight
12695
At what point do diminishing returns come into play with parry? is 4% parry still better at that point?
85 Blood Elf Warrior
9415
Swordshattering is not subject to DR. It will always add 4% parry. That's what makes it so awesome. Better than the 1500 mastery from Windsong even if that mastery was up all the time and not just 1 proc a minute as Euliat explained.

Runeforges do need an update but no one has ever accused them of being weak. FC, Razorice, SS, and SSG are all excellent enchants and the fact that they're free is icing on the cake. A lot of icing.
14 Dwarf Hunter
30
09/06/2012 05:05 PMPosted by Taeonas
At what point do diminishing returns come into play with parry? is 4% parry still better at that point?


swordshattering doesn't now, nor has it ever, apply to diminishing returns.
90 Orc Rogue
4235
I'm new to the DK class, so I've not much to add to this discussion. But I would like to ask the question to stir the discussion:

Given the apparently great scaling and lack of diminishing returns suffered by the existing Runeforges, what else would DKs like to see, what other niches of DK-play need to be met that aren't met by the existing Runeforges (while keeping in mind that they need to be on balance with the weapon enchants available to other classes)?
85 Orc Death Knight
3335
I dont tank with either of those, i still use Gargoyle.
100 Human Death Knight
12695
I realize that the 4% from swordshattering doesn't suffer, but parry overall does doesn't it?
90 Draenei Death Knight
11090
Strength (via %parry conversion) and parry rating diminish, yes.
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